another eagle in strife

CURLY · Post: # 481830Post **CURLY** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 3:40pm

fonz_#15 wrote:i dont disagree but the negatives outweigh the positives due to the off field effect it would have on the club.

The off field stuff would go away once he got out there and was playing well. Sometimes I wonder if wer worried about what people would say if we picked him up and are worried by that.

Dan Warna · Post: # 481833Post **Dan Warna** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 3:42pm

well all I can say is the trade alluded too that we may be getting cousins for pick 9 and or a player fell through.

folks here were talking about putting a package together to get cousins including our picks and players.

how WCE would be laughing with our pick 9 and someone like dal or monty, and we had a deregistered player on our list

CURLY · Post: # 481836Post **CURLY** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 3:45pm

Dan Warna wrote:well all I can say is the trade alluded too that we may be getting cousins for pick 9 and or a player fell through.

folks here were talking about putting a package together to get cousins including our picks and players.

how WCE would be laughing with our pick 9 and someone like dal or monty, and we had a deregistered player on our list

For free is what were talking about thats the only way just like Gardiner

Dan Warna · Post: # 481837Post **Dan Warna** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 3:50pm

CURLY wrote:
Dan Warna wrote:well all I can say is the trade alluded too that we may be getting cousins for pick 9 and or a player fell through.

folks here were talking about putting a package together to get cousins including our picks and players.

how WCE would be laughing with our pick 9 and someone like dal or monty, and we had a deregistered player on our list
For free is what were talking about thats the only way just like Gardiner

oh good, will we have to stump up the cash for his rehab for a drug addiction problem he apparently doesn't have but is going for anywy?

or will we front up the cash for his fight against deregistration?

or what if he is tested and finally caught, now that the AFL has increased testing to each player twice a year on average and included EPO and methamphetamines on its regime?

do we stand by him if he runs away from another drug test?

frankly its a waste of a spot on our list, a turn off for investers and sponsors to know we have a declared drug cheat on our list, and waste of even a rookie wage of 50k to have this cheating player on our list.

so in summary, no, I dont want this cheat on our list.

CURLY · Post: # 481839Post **CURLY** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 3:52pm

You go on like we would or another club would just take him blindly he goes away finishes his rehab ticks all the boxes we want him thats it

TimeToShineFellas · Wed 24 Oct 2007 3:55pm

CURLY wrote:You go on like we would or another club would just take him blindly he goes away finishes his rehab ticks all the boxes we want him thats it

So what you're thinking his rehab will only take 3-4 months and he'd be ready for next year?

Highly unlikely.....

Wouldn't take a punt on him if he misses a season then declares himself ready at 31.....

GrumpyOne · Post: # 481843Post **GrumpyOne** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 3:56pm

Lets get real on this debate guys.

The bottom line is that we would have as much chance of getting Riccardo's new avatar playing as we would getting Cousins.

Wate of space, both this thread and its subject.

Dan Warna · Post: # 481845Post **Dan Warna** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 3:57pm

CURLY wrote:You go on like we would or another club would just take him blindly he goes away finishes his rehab ticks all the boxes we want him thats it

and you go on like he isn't a drug cheat and hasn't been deregistered by the AFL.

he's no different to other cheats like marion jones

IMO if the AFL had any balls it would strip him of his awards over the past 18 months and knock WCE of the premiership as countless other sports have done.

IMO if one player is caught, then the team loses the 4 points or the final or whatever.

and yes it is that simple.

that alone will probably ensure that teams ensure their mates are off the juice.

Saint Mik · Post: # 481848Post **Saint Mik** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:01pm

Curly do you think he has a problem and how far do you think it runs back?

Do you honestly think we could keep him on the straight and narrow.

I dont think we could and that is the ONLY reason that i think we should not take a chance with him.

I would love to see him in our colors also but i would also hate to see a headline next year reading Cousins arrested again and St Kilda loose there draft picks and Dal Santo wants out ect.

Word is embely wants out also over there so imagine the same fallout at the saints of the same magnitude its just not worth it.

You talk of him as if he is clean but he isnt and thats his choice.

Richter · Post: # 481850Post **Richter** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:05pm

Dan Warna wrote: he's no different to other cheats like marion jones

Yes he is. She's a PROVEN drug cheat. He's admitted a "substance use problem." Splitting hairs maybe, but there is a difference.

IMO if the AFL had any balls it would strip him of his awards over the past 18 months and knock WCE of the premiership as countless other sports have done.

But not for example cricket. Wonder if you aussies would be happy to cough up all the Ashes that you won in the 90s with Shane Warne the proven drug user in your team?

Saint Mik · Post: # 481853Post **Saint Mik** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:07pm

F*** Richter dont throw Warney in there as well its out of control now

plugger66 · Post: # 481854Post **plugger66** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:08pm

Dan Warna wrote:
CURLY wrote:You go on like we would or another club would just take him blindly he goes away finishes his rehab ticks all the boxes we want him thats it
and you go on like he isn't a drug cheat and hasn't been deregistered by the AFL.

he's no different to other cheats like marion jones

IMO if the AFL had any balls it would strip him of his awards over the past 18 months and knock WCE of the premiership as countless other sports have done.

IMO if one player is caught, then the team loses the 4 points or the final or whatever.

and yes it is that simple.

that alone will probably ensure that teams ensure their mates are off the juice.

Marion Jones used performance enhancing drugs to improve. Ben Cousins probably had used recreational drugs. There is a huge difference. They cannot be compared.

CURLY · Post: # 481855Post **CURLY** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:09pm

First of all we wont get Cousins and truth is he probably wont play again . My arguement is if he made himself available I think we should defanatly take him. Could we turn him around I beleive if we were to get him the coaching staff clearly beleive they could. Until this happen more likely if this happens we wont know. I just know there is that much shyt that goes on with players thats not exposed and kept in house a player of Cousins his quality shouldnt be overlooked.

Richter · Post: # 481856Post **Richter** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:13pm

Saint Mik wrote:F*** Richter dont throw Warney in there as well its out of control now

I know, I'm still a bit bummed about the thrashing last summer and that England couldn't manage more than 3 days at the Boxing Day Test.

FWIW I don't see SW as a drug cheat, unlike Dan W, presumably. I see him as the greatest spin bowler of all time, one of the great characters in sport over the last 20 years and a loyal Saints man. Who made a mistake. Pah!

Dan Warna · Post: # 481858Post **Dan Warna** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:15pm

plugger66 wrote:
Marion Jones used performance enhancing drugs to improve. Ben Cousins probably had used recreational drugs. There is a huge difference. They cannot be compared.

sorry plugger but you are wrong, it is a furphy put out by that methamphetamines or ice is a recreational drug.

methamphetamines is listed under schedule 6 of the WADA code as a stimulant and banned for use during a period of competition.

the whole rubbish about it being a recreational drug is because it is used by party goers, that doesn't detract from its ability to boost endurance, confidence, attentiveness etc.

used in small doses it is a boost to athletes and military personel.

the side effects include the shakes, addiction, depression, vomitting, paranoia, increased aggression.

Dan Warna · Post: # 481861Post **Dan Warna** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:18pm

Richter wrote:
Saint Mik wrote:F*** Richter dont throw Warney in there as well its out of control now
I know, I'm still a bit bummed about the thrashing last summer and that England couldn't manage more than 3 days at the Boxing Day Test.

FWIW I don't see SW as a drug cheat, unlike Dan W, presumably. I see him as the greatest spin bowler of all time, one of the great characters in sport over the last 20 years and a loyal Saints man. Who made a mistake. Pah!

the drug that warne was found to have consumed he was punished for with a suspension.

if they found additional drugs in his system then the punishment would have been greater and appropriately administered.

i am a tremendous fan of cricket and a biased victorian fan (for those who have dared criticise podge

). But if warne was found with crystal meth in his system during competition, the australia SHOULD immediately lose that test match.

plugger66 · Post: # 481865Post **plugger66** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:19pm

Dan Warna wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
Marion Jones used performance enhancing drugs to improve. Ben Cousins probably had used recreational drugs. There is a huge difference. They cannot be compared.
sorry plugger but you are wrong, it is a furphy put out by that methamphetamines or ice is a recreational drug.

methamphetamines is listed under schedule 6 of the WADA code as a stimulant and banned for use during a period of competition.

the whole rubbish about it being a recreational drug is because it is used by party goers, that doesn't detract from its ability to boost endurance, confidence, attentiveness etc.

used in small doses it is a boost to athletes and military personel.

the side effects include the shakes, addiction, depression, vomitting, paranoia, increased aggression.

WE have spoken about this before and it can only be tested on the day of competition because WADA do not see it as performance enhancing any other time. It can taken the day before or after competiition and you will not be tested for it. WE as what Marion Jones had is tested every day of the year.

As for the side effects you are right they sound real performance enhancing. Not.

Dan Warna · Post: # 481873Post **Dan Warna** » Wed 24 Oct 2007 4:39pm

again you are wrong plugger it is listed as an illegal stimulant, it can also be tested for outside the actual day of the event.

come on if you are going to argue a point at least use the facts instead of spreading more rubbish around.

you can be tested any time in the period of competition you can be tested before and after, and out of competition for some s.6 prohibited substances, including methamphetamine.

the period of competition includes time OUTSIDE the actual event and for the duration of the competition.

http://www.sport-koa.org.cy/pdf/Explana ... e_2006.pdf

the side effects are not performance enhancing they are the effects of abuse.

the effects of enhancement when used to boost performance are quite different, these include increased endurance, alertness, confidence, agression, attentiveness. nice one quoting out of context

basically have a look at for example the situation of a person who has the shakes and is vomiting with a known ice addiction = withddrawal.

followed by confidence, energy, endurance, altertness, aggression, after taking a hit.