Jack Carroll

[magnifisaint]

Matt Allison was a big bust. He was given so much time to make it but never got close to a senior game.

[SinCitySainter]

People saying he is an improvement on Hotton are missing the point entirely.
Hotton was not in our best 22 and subsequently was delisted.
For this to be worthwhile he has to be better than someone who is in our best 22 and I simply cannot see who he would be better than.

We are full of average footballers who can do a job if called upon getting more of them does not improve us.
We would be better off holding the pick and selecting a kid who has a couple of truly elite traits but has some major deficiencies that mean most recruiters draw a line through him immediately.
This is a club looking to finish midtable style selection as sure he won't be terrible but he also will not help us push into contention.

When we recruit a player only one question should be asked and that is does he knock someone out of St Kilda's best 22 and not is he better than someone who was playing at Sandy.

[shrodes]

People saying he is an improvement on Hotton are missing the point entirely.
Hotton was not in our best 22 and subsequently was delisted.
For this to be worthwhile he has to be better than someone who is in our best 22 and I simply cannot see who he would be better than.

We are full of average footballers who can do a job if called upon getting more of them does not improve us.
We would be better off holding the pick and selecting a kid who has a couple of truly elite traits but has some major deficiencies that mean most recruiters draw a line through him immediately.
This is a club looking to finish midtable style selection as sure he won't be terrible but he also will not help us push into contention.

When we recruit a player only one question should be asked and that is does he knock someone out of St Kilda's best 22 and not is he better than someone who was playing at Sandy.

How many AFL games did Hotton play? Allison? Van Es?
No one is suggesting he is the next Cripps, but he has played at AFL level and couldn’t break into a pretty strong Carlton midfield. At worst he is depth and certainly no worse than anyone delisted on zero games for the club.

[cwrcyn]

It can be argued that the Jack Carroll is still in the development stage of his career. Remember, he was very skinny when drafted. Well short of an AFL body. Then he was injured for most of 2023. This year was the first year of him being both injury free and having an AFL ready body.

It's hardly the time to be consigning the guy to a future of playing only VFL football. He did play 15 games this year in a more talented team than ours. Applying your logic would mean that we should have chopped Cooper Sharman from our list two years ago

[Yorkeys]

I’ll tell you one thing

He’s better than Matt Allison from the same draft

Allison pick 26
Carroll pick 41

Matt A looked a million dollars at times in 5 second cameos spaced about 6 weeks apart - when not out on what seemed frequent extended injury rehab. Now if AFL had timeouts and huge squads, like NFL, he could have been occasionally used as a surprise weapon, kept fresh. Unfortunately........

[axcellence]

Matt Allison was a big bust. He was given so much time to make it but never got close to a senior game.

Pop quiz: which person said

A short player gets a few years to prove he can play.

A tall player gets x years to prove he cannot play.

[TheGreatZacsby]

People saying he is an improvement on Hotton are missing the point entirely.
Hotton was not in our best 22 and subsequently was delisted.
For this to be worthwhile he has to be better than someone who is in our best 22 and I simply cannot see who he would be better than.

We are full of average footballers who can do a job if called upon getting more of them does not improve us.
We would be better off holding the pick and selecting a kid who has a couple of truly elite traits but has some major deficiencies that mean most recruiters draw a line through him immediately.
This is a club looking to finish midtable style selection as sure he won't be terrible but he also will not help us push into contention.

When we recruit a player only one question should be asked and that is does he knock someone out of St Kilda's best 22 and not is he better than someone who was playing at Sandy.

I think you are missing the point entirely.

We need mids. We got one for free. Creates competition around the spot to make best 22. That’s Garcia, Jones, Dow and now Carroll fighting it out. Thus creating standards.

We had 9 open list spots and 4 spots taking on draft night (currently) plus 1 spot open for a Sandy player.

We were 5 short. Now we got Carroll we are 4 short. Who the hell do you suppose to take? How has Mason Wood gone on our team he was a delisted free agent? How has Stocker gone on our team? He was a delisted free agent? What about Membrey? Oh wait, again a delisted free agent? You can get the selection right at times. Bonner looked promising and shat the bed and we booted him. I think the club is doing good things.

Do you want a dud in Lienert? Remember him! Who the hell do you want to take? Curtis Taylor? Another dud?

The kid is 21 years old, prime age for us. He runs, he kicks, he tackles, he loves a goal. It’s an upgrade on our outs being Hotton and Allison. That’s how you turn over a list. You upgrade the outs with solid ins. Only 22 out of a possible squad of 50 play AFL each week. You got to keep improving the list. This is an improvement.

You think you know better than SOS who set up GWS and Carlton to where they are now, Dalrymple who set up the doggies and the swans to where they are now, and Allan who set up Collingwood to where they are now? All those teams are top 8! Are you silly?

[Darth Vader]

People saying he is an improvement on Hotton are missing the point entirely.
Hotton was not in our best 22 and subsequently was delisted.
For this to be worthwhile he has to be better than someone who is in our best 22 and I simply cannot see who he would be better than.

We are full of average footballers who can do a job if called upon getting more of them does not improve us.
We would be better off holding the pick and selecting a kid who has a couple of truly elite traits but has some major deficiencies that mean most recruiters draw a line through him immediately.
This is a club looking to finish midtable style selection as sure he won't be terrible but he also will not help us push into contention.

When we recruit a player only one question should be asked and that is does he knock someone out of St Kilda's best 22 and not is he better than someone who was playing at Sandy.

I think you are missing the point entirely.

We need mids. We got one for free. Creates competition around the spot to make best 22. That’s Garcia, Jones, Dow and now Carroll fighting it out. Thus creating standards.

We had 9 open list spots and 4 spots taking on draft night (currently) plus 1 spot open for a Sandy player.

We were 5 short. Now we got Carroll we are 4 short. Who the hell do you suppose to take? How has Mason Wood gone on our team he was a delisted free agent? How has Stocker gone on our team? He was a delisted free agent? What about Membrey? Oh wait, again a delisted free agent? You can get the selection right at times. Bonner looked promising and shat the bed and we booted him. I think the club is doing good things.

Do you want a dud in Lienert? Remember him! Who the hell do you want to take? Curtis Taylor? Another dud?

The kid is 21 years old, prime age for us. He runs, he kicks, he tackles, he loves a goal. It’s an upgrade on our outs being Hotton and Allison. That’s how you turn over a list. You upgrade the outs with solid ins. Only 22 out of a possible squad of 50 play AFL each week. You got to keep improving the list. This is an improvement.

You think you know better than SOS who set up GWS and Carlton to where they are now, Dalrymple who set up the doggies and the swans to where they are now, and Allan who set up Collingwood to where they are now? All those teams are top 8! Are you silly?

There are also these things called injuries. The better teams have good depth to cover injuries. This guy improves our depth at zero cost.

[mr six o'clock]

I'd prefer ernie carroll

[silverhalo]

I'd prefer ernie carroll

He's no longer with us

[The Fireman]

Brings back memories getting players from that cheating club

I’ve got a good feeling about this one

[magnifisaint]

He played sub 7 times which impacts his stats, but good enough to get a spot in the team. Ask yourself how long it took Acres to become a reasonable player? I reckon 6 years.

[CQ SAINT]

I think Jack might find his niche on the wing, entering the centre rotations and delivering to the 50 with a dangerous left foot from our centre line.
The more I watch the highlights, the better his kicking look.
He has a nice step, a burst at the ball with the balance and hand/eye to pick it up cleanly and with that left hip opened up, he had the smarts and ability to drop the ball to advantage.
I like the idea of Sinclair Arie and NWM getting the ball out, on a long lead from King and/or Higgins and the likes of Pou (191, Wilson 185 and Carroll 188, delivering it into the 50 quickly to Sharman and Caminiti.
These types of players are called attacking fwd/mids. We have lacked them big time.

[SAINT-LEE]

Deja Vu.

I couldn’t pick Carroll in a line up, and don’t recall seeing him play so I won’t comment on his ability.

However I have been concerned around SOS arriving at the Saints and what input he has in recruiting.

Drafting of first round picks during his tenure at GWS was horrendous, not much better at Carlton.

At Carlton he flooded them with failed GWS rejects and I am concerned he is doing the same at St Kilda with Dow and now Carroll.

I hope it is coincidence, and I hope Carroll is a player, I just don’t rate SOS at all.

His drafting at GWS was incredibly good what are you on about? He selected almost all of their current champion players. Besides those two years where he went a bit crazy with the GWS rejects, his record at Carlton was also tremendous, he turned that club around from where it was as one of the worse performing sides of the 2000's to where it is today. Cripps, Curnow, Mackay, Walsh and Weitering are all among his personal picks. Grossly underrated list manager.

Almost all of their champion players?
Absolute bulls***!
Name the players he picked that make up almost all of their current champions.

SOS was only at GWS for three years and here is a list of his incredibly good first round picks.
He then recruited 9 (yes 9) former GWS players to Carlton.

Yes there's a handful of good picks on the journey, but overall the first round recruiting during his tenure at GSW was the worst in AFL history and poor to average at Carlton, not to mention taking GWS fringe players.

GWS
#1 Jon Patton
#1 Tom Boyd
#2 Jono O'Rourke
#3 Dom Tyson
#3 Lachie Plowman
#4 Jarred Picket
#5 Matt Buntine
#5 Will Setterfield
#6 Caleb Marchbank
#6 Paul Ahern
#10 Liam Sumner
#12 Kristin Jacksh
#14 Aidan Corr

Carlton
#3 Dow
#4 Stocker (gave up #4 for #19)
#6 Sam Petrevski-Seton
#10 O'Brien
#17 Brodie Kemp
#19 Blaine Boekhurst

Then SOS doubled down on a swag of the guys who couldn't cut it at GWS and recruited them to Carlton, where he got the arse BTW despite being a club playing legend and part of the Carlton Royal family.

Great player, probably a ripping bloke but very ordinary history at GWS and Carlton.

SOS picked up my 89 yr old mum & she said he was pretty flash. So there's that.

[SAINT-LEE]

Way too many f***wits on this site.

I agree

Wooaah.
Hold on.
I come from a long line of proud f***wits.
Me granddad was a royal f***wit and me dad was d**khead f***wit.
I too am a f***wit but sadly I've yet to reach their loftiness of f***wittery.

[saint6709]

People saying he is an improvement on Hotton are missing the point entirely.
Hotton was not in our best 22 and subsequently was delisted.
For this to be worthwhile he has to be better than someone who is in our best 22 and I simply cannot see who he would be better than.

We are full of average footballers who can do a job if called upon getting more of them does not improve us.
We would be better off holding the pick and selecting a kid who has a couple of truly elite traits but has some major deficiencies that mean most recruiters draw a line through him immediately.
This is a club looking to finish midtable style selection as sure he won't be terrible but he also will not help us push into contention.

When we recruit a player only one question should be asked and that is does he knock someone out of St Kilda's best 22 and not is he better than someone who was playing at Sandy.

If anyone in the football department had the thought ‘improvement on Hotton’ they probably should be sacked
I think I might have heard about 1 half decent game - maybe a couple of random ok quarters - for SANDY

He needed to go

This kid has been recruited - I hope he goes well

[mad saint guy]

I think this is a pointless move. Strikes me as a Shane Birss/Dean Polo type recruit. Would have preferred to take a mature backup ruck/key defender.

Our 2025 midfield stocks should be Steele, Macrae, Phillipou, Windhager, Clark, Dow, Garcia, pick 7 (hopefully Smilie), pick 8 (hopefully Reid), Jones, Hall. Don't know why we needed to add another GOP without any stand out strengths at AFL level. Carlton fans say at AFL level he is slow, doesn't get much of the ball and disposal is average.

[cwrcyn]

Other Carlton supporters are disappointed that he got delisted and have a different view of his skillset.

He's not Shane Birss and he's not Dean Polo.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

A Carlton mate says he's skilled and smart but very left-sided. How mny left-footers do we have? Doesn't hurt to mix it up a little.

[TheGreatZacsby]

I think this is a pointless move. Strikes me as a Shane Birss/Dean Polo type recruit. Would have preferred to take a mature backup ruck/key defender.

Our 2025 midfield stocks should be Steele, Macrae, Phillipou, Windhager, Clark, Dow, Garcia, pick 7 (hopefully Smilie), pick 8 (hopefully Reid), Jones, Hall. Don't know why we needed to add another GOP without any stand out strengths at AFL level. Carlton fans say at AFL level he is slow, doesn't get much of the ball and disposal is average.

Please avoid Reid like the plague. He’s Hunter Clark 2.0. Looks slow AF

[samuraisaint]

It's like back to the future - in this case 1987.
Instead of Marcou, McConville, Wow Jones, Kourkemelis, Kenny Sheldon and Ricky Nixon, now it's Stocker, Dow, Kid Caminiti and Carroll. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Jack Silvagni came across too you know.

[mad saint guy]

Other Carlton supporters are disappointed that he got delisted and have a different view of his skillset.

He's not Shane Birss and he's not Dean Polo.

Aaron Fiora?

[mad saint guy]

I think this is a pointless move. Strikes me as a Shane Birss/Dean Polo type recruit. Would have preferred to take a mature backup ruck/key defender.

Our 2025 midfield stocks should be Steele, Macrae, Phillipou, Windhager, Clark, Dow, Garcia, pick 7 (hopefully Smilie), pick 8 (hopefully Reid), Jones, Hall. Don't know why we needed to add another GOP without any stand out strengths at AFL level. Carlton fans say at AFL level he is slow, doesn't get much of the ball and disposal is average.

Please avoid Reid like the plague. He’s Hunter Clark 2.0. Looks slow AF

I actually see some similarities there as well but I think he's a better accumulator, has a bigger tank and is quicker. His top sprint might not test as well as others, but he's a fast footballer. He moves at his top pace and makes good decisions quickly. The opposite of Seb Ross - who actually had an excellent top speed but was a slow footballer

[D.B.Cooper]

Deja Vu.

I couldn’t pick Carroll in a line up, and don’t recall seeing him play so I won’t comment on his ability.

However I have been concerned around SOS arriving at the Saints and what input he has in recruiting.

Drafting of first round picks during his tenure at GWS was horrendous, not much better at Carlton.

At Carlton he flooded them with failed GWS rejects and I am concerned he is doing the same at St Kilda with Dow and now Carroll.

I hope it is coincidence, and I hope Carroll is a player, I just don’t rate SOS at all.

His drafting at GWS was incredibly good what are you on about? He selected almost all of their current champion players. Besides those two years where he went a bit crazy with the GWS rejects, his record at Carlton was also tremendous, he turned that club around from where it was as one of the worse performing sides of the 2000's to where it is today. Cripps, Curnow, Mackay, Walsh and Weitering are all among his personal picks. Grossly underrated list manager.

Almost all of their champion players?
Absolute bulls***!
Name the players he picked that make up almost all of their current champions.

SOS was only at GWS for three years and here is a list of his incredibly good first round picks.
He then recruited 12 (yes 12) former GWS players to Carlton.

Yes there's a handful of good picks on the journey, but overall the first round recruiting during his tenure at GSW was the worst in AFL history and poor to average at Carlton, not to mention taking GWS fringe players.

GWS
#1 Jon Patton
#1 Tom Boyd
#2 Jono O'Rourke
#3 Dom Tyson
#3 Lachie Plowman
#4 Jarred Picket
#5 Matt Buntine
#5 Will Setterfield
#6 Caleb Marchbank
#6 Paul Ahern
#10 Liam Sumner
#12 Kristin Jacksh
#14 Aidan Corr

Carlton
#3 Dow
#4 Stocker (gave up #4 for #19)
#6 Sam Petrevski-Seton
#10 O'Brien
#17 Brodie Kemp
#19 Blaine Boekhurst

Then SOS doubled down on a swag of the guys who couldn't cut it at GWS and recruited them to Carlton, where he got the arse BTW despite being a club playing legend and part of the Carlton Royal family.

Great player, probably a ripping bloke but very ordinary history at GWS and Carlton.

Moronic post, you clearly have bias here. As you know the list you posted here is a cherry picked minority of GWS picks during his tenure. His strike rate at the blues and GWS in the first and second rounds is exceptional.

Name champion GWS players SOS selected? Try almost every good +100 gamer to ever player for the giants including (but not even slightly limited to); Congolio, Greene, Cameron, Hayes, Whitfield, Trealor, Hoskin Elliot, Taylor Adams, Kelly, Taranto, Tomlinson, Boyd (who contrary to your view was an exceptional player), Zac Williams, Nathan Wilson, Smith, Jack Steele, Lobb and settlefield.

Pretty handy list I would’ve thought.

The entire backbone of Carlton’s success in recent times is due to him. Almost all of their good current players he drafted or recruited.

Very ordinary history at Carlton and GWS? Again Moronic.

This hilarious post by Brunswicksainter, attempts to be demeaning by referring to ‘moronic posts’ while claiming amongst SOS’s First round drafting success:

# 1- Tom Boyd (9 games) traded for Caleb Marchbank (7 games) and Ryan Griffen (55 games)
Griffen was a good player but a combined 71 games from a #1 (over 3 players) is a total bust, even Paddy McCartin played 63 games (more than Boyd BTW). Thank god for SOS he got Griffen and not another first rounder to waste.

Brunswicksainter thinks trading King would be a win (82 games & 162 goals) and rates McCartin a failure, but Boyd a success and an exceptional player, though Paddy played more games and King is well in front of them both. For the record I rate both McCartin & Boyd as a #1 bust.

If we are able to trade king this off season, I can’t see a situation where we lose out.

I still to this day cannot believe our recruiters went against the expectations of the entire AFL industry all other club scouts in picking Mccartin.

# 4 - Hoskin- Elliott (42 games) traded for #28
Nick Coffield played 52 games for the saints and as a pick 8 is considered a bust.

# 5 – Will Setterfield (2 games) traded for 4th round pick
Seriously if Setterfield is considered a success list we might as well include the outstanding AFL careers of O’Rourke, Pickett, Sumner and Ahern as well

Brunswicksainter rates Billings #3 and his 171 games a spud, but calls Hoskin-Elliott #4 & Setterfield #5 GWS successful SOS first round picks

Billings is a spud

Brunswicksainter's gun list (minus Setterfields 2 games and Hoskin-Elliotts 42 games) leaves 10 good, very good or gun first round draft picks:
Congolio, Greene, Cameron, Hayes (I assume you mean Haynes), Whitfield, Trealor, Taylor Adams, Kelly, Taranto, Tomlinson

And 14 very average, poor or total bust first round draft picks:
Jon Patton, Tom Boyd, Jono O'Rourke, Hoskin-Elliott, Dom Tyson, Lachie Plowman, Jarred Picket, Matt Buntine, Will Setterfield, Caleb Marchbank, Paul Ahern, Liam Sumner, Kristin Jacksh, Aidan Corr

So, you are happy with a rounded up 42% strike rate for successful first round picks and that makes SOS a genius, well good for you Brunswicksainter. Hell, I’ll throw in Setterfield and his 2 games and Boyd’s 9 games into the win column to get SOS’s incredible record up to a strike rate of 50% wins on first round selection.

But SOS wasn’t done with his failed GWS first rounders and players who couldn’t cut the mustard, not by a long, long way (even Brunswicksainter agrees here) he doubled down on 12 of them, YES “12 TWELVE” GWS players were recruited to Carlton while SOS was there. Some household names there that SOS just wouldn’t give up on – loyalty.

Marchbank, Sumner, Whiley, Pickett, Palmer, (Brunswicksainters boy) Setterfield, Kennedy, Jaksch, Lamb, Buckley, Plowman, Phillips

So Brunswicksainter, you may choose to be a fanboy of SOS, that's fine with me.
I think he was a gun player and is probably a great bloke (I have never met him).
But I look at his first round recruiting at GWS and it is a horror show for anyone with a semblance of common sense.

BTW, I think SOS got the gig at the Saints because he is great mates with RTB, not because he has a record of any substance.

12 GWS rejects to Carlton geez even SOS fanboy sycophant Brunswicksainter acknowledges that series of stupidity.

Let's hope the pattern is broken and we don't take a list of Carlton rejects like Dow for the next few years.

[Sainter_Dad]

Way too many f***wits on this site.

I agree

Wooaah.
Hold on.
I come from a long line of proud f***wits.
Me granddad was a royal f***wit and me dad was d**khead f***wit.
I too am a f***wit but sadly I've yet to reach their loftiness of f***wittery.

Whereas I come from a line that has great Mental Patience
My Grand Father was a Mental Patient
My Father was a Mental Patient ...

[They call me Bruce]