Changes for next week

[chook23]

The change I'd like to see is we come out and are not intimidated by Geelong. Really put it to them. And not be pathetic with chances on goal.

Too often we are meek, wait for them to run all over us. Almost apologise and slow down if we are on top at times.

They are not as good as us, but I am not sure our players and coaches know it. If they beat us at least hurt them because you cant lose three in a row and consider yourself a serious contender for top 4.

We were soft against Port and Melbourne. You can play below your ability but at least get a reputation for being hard. May treated some of our players with contempt and got away with it. Didn't like the look of that.

No doubt we were intimidated by Melbourne...and certain players

[SunnyErnie]

Butler out, Sharman in
Webster out, Highmore in
Windhager out, Billings in

Bombing long to the square out, lowering the eyes in

One more move I would consider

Play Marshall as the lone ruckman, rest Ryder and bring in Byrnes. Run the old Cats off their feet FFS!!!

[The Fireman]

Only a troll would consider leaving Ryder out

[SunnyErnie]

Only a troll would consider leaving Ryder out

It just goes to show how much you know

[WellardSaint]

There's an obvious pattern, that we're refusing to see/acknowledge.

We need to start realising that small specialist forwards get monstered in big, pressure games - they just don't get a look in.
We've seen it time and again.

I'd be tempted to leave out both Higgins and Butler for slightly bigger-bodied players from now on - because, even if we make the finals, they are not going to get the job done - and will be our weak link.

I'd be playing Owens instead of Butler.

I believe this is the first time the two small forwards issue has been explained in this way.

A lot of us have said 'oh, we can't play Hayes or Lienert because we'll be too tall'
But being too small is also an issue.

I fully agree, it seems futile to keep playing both Butler and Snags, in the hope they'll come good.
One of them needs to get dropped to spend at least a week in the baby-poo colours, until they reinvent themselves, and rediscover their mojo.

We can't afford to keep playing both, as they aren't reliable and dependable.
Higgins misses, and Butler goes missing.
Not good enough

[WellardSaint]

Who does everyone think our least effective players were yesterday?

Butler
Higgins
King (4 touches?)
Crouch (got 27 touches but I cannot recall many of them, strangely)

I thought Crouch was our best mid better than Steele tbh

Read Scollop's nice post a bit higher up.
It's not just the numbers, it's what he doesn't do with the ball.

I remember Buckley being asked in a presser why he didn't tag Tom Mitchell who was getting big numbers.
'He doesn't hurt you'.
It's like Ross pre-2022, 30+ touches, but the kicks were usually to oppo players, high helicopters, or to no-man's land

[ace]

Christian had to fine Jones to protect the reputation of the dumb ar$e umpire who fell for Oliver's staging.
No way Christian could offer a suspension, he would be laughed out of the tribunal.

[older saint]

Been off the grid for a week but got back in time to watch Sunday ( perhaps should have stayed off the grid an extra day, but least missed the week before)

From what i saw Sunday:
Out: Butler (inj), Long, Windheager (sub)
in: Billings, Geary.

[Scollop]

Matt Crouch was dropped from the Crows team even though he has no trouble racking up possessions



I think we need to do the same thing. Maybe Gresh gets a wake up call (especially if he’s carrying an injury)

Out: Gresham, Butler, Webster
In: Billings, Clark, Highmore

I think Highmore might be better suited as a taller option if Geelong have Cameron, Hawkins and one other ruckman who sometimes rests up forward.

Higgins gets another week but needs to lift. Same with Max King. If he’s carrying an injury he should be managed.

[Impatient Sainter]

Just watched the replay of our VFL game & my ins/outs have changed -

Out: Webster, Wanganeen-Milera (rest), Gresham (inj) & Butler (inj)
Ins: Lienert, Clark, Billings, Sharman

On a wet day Lienert was so much more cleaner than Highmore. Owens is an absolute inside beast and will become a very good AFL player. He is unlucky to miss.

We simply have to find room in our forward 50 for Sharman, to give us another option when our other marking forwards are being held.

[shanegrambeau]

Can’t help thinking that even if we made ten changes, we still wouldn’t match Melbourne’s midfield.

As for Geelong, our record is even worse.

But last year we were close.
Atrocious kicking cost is one..

Who will be the Cameron killer?

[SaintPav]

Team defence

[SaintPav]

Just watched the replay of our VFL game & my ins/outs have changed -

Out: Webster, Wanganeen-Milera (rest), Gresham (inj) & Butler (inj)
Ins: Lienert, Clark, Billings, Sharman

On a wet day Lienert was so much more cleaner than Highmore. Owens is an absolute inside beast and will become a very good AFL player. He is unlucky to miss.

We simply have to find room in our forward 50 for Sharman, to give us another option when our other marking forwards are being held.

Is Gresham injured IS or are you just speculating?

[D.B.Cooper]

Byrnes (Byrbes) has been either medical sub, emergency for the seniors and close to BOG in his last 2 VFL games.
If he does not get promoted this week in place of Butler there is very little selection integrity IMO.
You need to reward performance at the lower level.

Assuming Butler is the only injury-
In: Billings, Byrnes, Leinert
Out: Higgins, Butler, Paton

Perhaps NWM needs a rest and Higgins or Paton receive a reprieve but doubt it on indigenous (Doug Nicholls) round as he'd be primed to play.

[Ghost Like]

Why is Paton being targeted? Webster was on Gray against Port & on Pickett on Sunday (even though it was the free against Sinclair that gave away the 3rd).

Get rid of Higgins and we lose our 2nd most effective forward.

With Butler OUT, Sharman should come IN. Lienert should play but for Webster or Battle.

Billings & Byrnes should come in for Wood & Jones. Jones was poor in clearances and disposal efficiency.

As someone else said, Owens deserves another shot but not sure where unless medi-sub. Clark needs another week, much as Jones needed.

[shanegrambeau]

Why is Paton being targeted? Webster was on Gray against Port & on Pickett on Sunday (even though it was the free against Sinclair that gave away the 3rd).

Get rid of Higgins and we lose our 2nd most effective forward.

With Butler OUT, Sharman should come IN. Lienert should play but for Webster or Battle.

Billings & Byrnes should come in for Wood & Jones. Jones was poor in clearances and disposal efficiency.

As someone else said, Owens deserves another shot but not sure where unless medi-sub. Clark needs another week, much as Jones needed.

Yeah, I was surprised they picked JOnes.

All you lot reported he was underdone in the VFL..let alone ready for AFL.

What does that tell you about Byrnes and Bytel?

[Teflon]

Why is Paton being targeted? Webster was on Gray against Port & on Pickett on Sunday (even though it was the free against Sinclair that gave away the 3rd).

Get rid of Higgins and we lose our 2nd most effective forward.

With Butler OUT, Sharman should come IN. Lienert should play but for Webster or Battle.

Billings & Byrnes should come in for Wood & Jones. Jones was poor in clearances and disposal efficiency.

As someone else said, Owens deserves another shot but not sure where unless medi-sub. Clark needs another week, much as Jones needed.

I don’t get the Paton hate - Webster was ordinary and found out
It’s like those potting Crouch - I thought he was genuinely one of our better mids, Steele turned it over often and blazed away but gets free pass cause he’s had a great year last year (not the case this year tbh)
Wood just doesn’t do enough - Billing’s to replace
Anyone suggesting we drop Higgins after his best start to an AFL year has rocks in their head
Butler hasn’t done enough regardless of injuries - he’s a small GOAL kicking forward …not just a tackler
Truth is over the next 2 years we need to have done if our kids become quality to replace our “role players” so guys like
Wood
Webster
McKenzie
Lienert
Butler
Need to be under pressure to be replaced for us to go next level and we need an elite midfielder

[Scollop]

Why is Paton being targeted? Webster was on Gray against Port & on Pickett on Sunday (even though it was the free against Sinclair that gave away the 3rd).

Get rid of Higgins and we lose our 2nd most effective forward.

With Butler OUT, Sharman should come IN. Lienert should play but for Webster or Battle.

Billings & Byrnes should come in for Wood & Jones. Jones was poor in clearances and disposal efficiency.

As someone else said, Owens deserves another shot but not sure where unless medi-sub. Clark needs another week, much as Jones needed.

I don’t get the Paton hate - Webster was ordinary and found out
It’s like those potting Crouch - I thought he was genuinely one of our better mids, Steele turned it over often and blazed away but gets free pass cause he’s had a great year last year (not the case this year tbh)
Wood just doesn’t do enough - Billing’s to replace
Anyone suggesting we drop Higgins after his best start to an AFL year has rocks in their head
Butler hasn’t done enough regardless of injuries - he’s a small GOAL kicking forward …not just a tackler
Truth is over the next 2 years we need to have done if our kids become quality to replace our “role players” so guys like
Wood
Webster
McKenzie
Lienert
Butler
Need to be under pressure to be replaced for us to go next level and we need an elite midfielder

Crouch was ok for the whole game and his last quarter was very good but by half way through the second quarter, he'd picked up 20 odd possessions and we were 47 points down!! People who look at the stat sheet before voting don't have a feel for the game. I think Hill, Howard, Sincs, Membrey, and Steele and another half dozen players helped keep us competitive in that middle period and they contributed more than Crouch. I reckon you haven't bothered watching the replay

In 2 years time we also should be looking to replace some of our so called 'first 22'.

Seb Ross and Brad Crouch should be competing for a spot imo with players like Bytel, Windy and Owens by that stage

I loved your call last year on Billings before the trade period....why shouldn't Billings and maybe even Gresham be competing for a spot in 2 years time with some of our youngsters?

We could also look at Coffield and Clark for trades if they aren't living up to expectations considering they were top 10 draft picks like Billings

Just on Butler...Isn't it obvious why his form dropped off?

I don't understand why we needed to recruit Higgins when we already had Butler, Gresham, Billings and Long who can ALL play the small forward role.

When one extra small comes in there will always be a drop off in form for the other smalls. It's a natural occurrence when you cannibalise opportunities for one forward versus another

[Vortex]

Why is Paton being targeted? Webster was on Gray against Port & on Pickett on Sunday (even though it was the free against Sinclair that gave away the 3rd).

Get rid of Higgins and we lose our 2nd most effective forward.

With Butler OUT, Sharman should come IN. Lienert should play but for Webster or Battle.

Billings & Byrnes should come in for Wood & Jones. Jones was poor in clearances and disposal efficiency.

As someone else said, Owens deserves another shot but not sure where unless medi-sub. Clark needs another week, much as Jones needed.

I don’t get the Paton hate - Webster was ordinary and found out
It’s like those potting Crouch - I thought he was genuinely one of our better mids, Steele turned it over often and blazed away but gets free pass cause he’s had a great year last year (not the case this year tbh)
Wood just doesn’t do enough - Billing’s to replace
Anyone suggesting we drop Higgins after his best start to an AFL year has rocks in their head
Butler hasn’t done enough regardless of injuries - he’s a small GOAL kicking forward …not just a tackler
Truth is over the next 2 years we need to have done if our kids become quality to replace our “role players” so guys like
Wood
Webster
McKenzie
Lienert
Butler
Need to be under pressure to be replaced for us to go next level and we need an elite midfielder

Crouch was ok for the whole game and his last quarter was very good but by half way through the second quarter, he'd picked up 20 odd possessions and we were 47 points down!! People who look at the stat sheet before voting don't have a feel for the game. I think Hill, Howard, Sincs, Membrey, and Steele and another half dozen players helped keep us competitive in that middle period and they contributed more than Crouch. I reckon you haven't bothered watching the replay

In 2 years time we also should be looking to replace some of our so called 'first 22'.

Seb Ross and Brad Crouch should be competing for a spot imo with players like Bytel, Windy and Owens by that stage

I loved your call last year on Billings before the trade period....why shouldn't Billings and maybe even Gresham be competing for a spot in 2 years time with some of our youngsters?

We could also look at Coffield and Clark for trades if they aren't living up to expectations considering they were top 10 draft picks like Billings

Just on Butler...Isn't it obvious why his form dropped off?

I don't understand why we needed to recruit Higgins when we already had Butler, Gresham, Billings and Long who can ALL play the small forward role.

When one extra small comes in there will always be a drop off in form for the other smalls. It's a natural occurrence when you cannibalise opportunities for one forward versus another

Are you suggesting Crouch should be dropped?

[saintbob]

Outs: Paton, Butler

Ins: Billings, Lienert

[Impatient Sainter]

Just watched the replay of our VFL game & my ins/outs have changed -

Out: Webster, Wanganeen-Milera (rest), Gresham (inj) & Butler (inj)
Ins: Lienert, Clark, Billings, Sharman

On a wet day Lienert was so much more cleaner than Highmore. Owens is an absolute inside beast and will become a very good AFL player. He is unlucky to miss.

We simply have to find room in our forward 50 for Sharman, to give us another option when our other marking forwards are being held.

Is Gresham injured IS or are you just speculating?

Ratts said he is carrying a hip injury, but is obviously playing through it. I thought with his drop off in form he may need a rest, plus with others that can come in.

[meher baba]

Assuming the club wants to win on Saturday arvo, it won't be following the suggestions of some posters that we might drop one or all of Gresham, Higgins and Crouch.

Many posters on footy forums don't seem to grasp the basic truth that, even though your club's best players sometimes have bad games, that doesn't stop them from being the best players. Nor does it suddenly transform inexperienced and/or FAQ players in the VFL into match-winning stars.

Another basic truth is that Ratten's coaching philosophy appears to demand a consistent basic team structure throughout the season. He experimented with playing three talls up front against Richmond, but subsequently abandoned the idea. Every player in his team consistently plays a specific role and, when one is injured or down on form, he's going to be looking for a like-for-like replacement as much as possible. That's why he will always be far more inclined to select players like Wood, Butler, Webster and NWM than many fans would wish, and would probably prefer to play Hill at half-back as much as he can.

When Billings and Clark come back, it will be to fill roles in which they are competent: in the same way that Jones replaced Windhager. Eg, Billings would replace Wood or NWM, and Clark perhaps Webster (although that's going to be an extremely tough call).

[Yorkeys]

True meher baba, no knee jerking, play the proven better players consistently until they demonstrate they are no longer a better player. However Sunday showed up potential dilemmas. I'd argue for example Windhager would probably have been at least as good as Jones, but we traded off investment in the future for the expectation Jones would perform very well
on the day notwithstanding his recent history. I admit I am not a Jones fan and think Windhager will be a beauty however I'd like to see some lateral thinking in selection and roles from time to time. We don't score enough against good defences because we lack attacking avenues.

[shanegrambeau]

Saints TV
Some comments about our players against Melbourne and predictions for the Geelong game.



Some interesting points.

[SunnyErnie]

Bombing long to the square and ego out, get a brain in!!!