Jaxons come on down
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- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Jaxons come on down
So pleasing how we handled draft period. Just an example of how success breeds success. Because we had a good year in 2016 (relative to expectations) we didnt need to panic and sat back and looked at the long term. This enabled us to capitalise on and exploit the Hawks situation for our long term advantage.
Just speculating but if we had finished bottom 4 again we may have had a different mentality and been panicked in to bringing in someone like Rocky or Hartlett or some other older player with pick 10 hoping for a short term boost.
Instead we sat back and played it cool and calm.
Just speculating but if we had finished bottom 4 again we may have had a different mentality and been panicked in to bringing in someone like Rocky or Hartlett or some other older player with pick 10 hoping for a short term boost.
Instead we sat back and played it cool and calm.
- ace
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Re: Jaxons come on down
Next year we have our 1st rounder and Hawthorn's 1st rounder
Our 3rd rounder
Our 4th rounder and North's 4th rounder
Our 6th rounder
We have advanced our 2nd rounder into a 1st round pick
and our 5th rounder into a 4th round pick
Our 3rd rounder
Our 4th rounder and North's 4th rounder
Our 6th rounder
We have advanced our 2nd rounder into a 1st round pick
and our 5th rounder into a 4th round pick
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
Re: Jaxons come on down
You can trade it out if you trade another in just as we were able to trade either of next year's first rounders.ace wrote:Just been looking at the AFL trade tracker.
They have the Koby Stevens deal now showing as deal 39 lodged at 1.58PM.
The last deal lodged before 2:00PM dealine.
One minute later would have been fine, two minutes later the deal gets rejected.
The AFL indicative draft order still can't sort out Carlton's involvement in the O'Meara deal they show:
Hawthorn receiving and keeping GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton.
Gold Coast receiving a 2017 2nd rounder from Hawthorn. It can not be Hawthorn's 2nd rounder as that would be illegal. Hawthorn had already traded their 2017 1st rounder to St Kilda.
It can not be Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder because Carlton had already traded that to Geelong along with Zach Tuohy in return for Billie Smedts and Geelong's 2017 1st rounder.
The 2017 2nd rounder received by Gold Coast from Hawthorn has to be GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton and via Hawthorn.
Oh and Hawthorn ends up with no-one else's 2017 2nd rounder other than their own.
2009 - the year of the Saint (modified name from MasonCJ2)
Re: Jaxons come on down
i've noticed this too, ace.Wigsy wrote:You can trade it out if you trade another in just as we were able to trade either of next year's first rounders.ace wrote:Just been looking at the AFL trade tracker.
They have the Koby Stevens deal now showing as deal 39 lodged at 1.58PM.
The last deal lodged before 2:00PM dealine.
One minute later would have been fine, two minutes later the deal gets rejected.
The AFL indicative draft order still can't sort out Carlton's involvement in the O'Meara deal they show:
Hawthorn receiving and keeping GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton.
Gold Coast receiving a 2017 2nd rounder from Hawthorn. It can not be Hawthorn's 2nd rounder as that would be illegal. Hawthorn had already traded their 2017 1st rounder to St Kilda.
It can not be Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder because Carlton had already traded that to Geelong along with Zach Tuohy in return for Billie Smedts and Geelong's 2017 1st rounder.
The 2017 2nd rounder received by Gold Coast from Hawthorn has to be GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton and via Hawthorn.
Oh and Hawthorn ends up with no-one else's 2017 2nd rounder other than their own.
looks like hawthorn was able to trade 2017 1st & 2nd rounder on the basis that they have kept a 2nd rounder (originally belonging to GWS and received via carlton).
this doesn't not appear to have been permitted by the rules as written.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/i ... raft-order
Clubs may trade future draft selections. Clubs must:
• Only trade selections from the following year's draft
• Make at least two first-round selections in each four-year period. If they don't, they will face restrictions from trading any further first-round draft picks
If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds.
so you should be able to trade other picks you get in, but you have to keep your own (i.e. hawthorn could have on-traded the GWS 2nd round pick to GCS but not their own 2nd round pick as they had already traded their 1st round pick to us).
- dragit
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Re: Jaxons come on down
Let's be honest the AFL don't have any real rules or genuine formulas...
The free agency compensation "formula" is a prime example, if there was actually any formula it wouldn't be very hard to communicate and calculate... X years x Y dollars = z
Instead we have a dude sticking his finger in his mouth and then holding it in the breeze for a bit...
The guidelines around trading future picks will get ironed out when hawthorn & Geeling apply for priority picks in a few years.
The free agency compensation "formula" is a prime example, if there was actually any formula it wouldn't be very hard to communicate and calculate... X years x Y dollars = z
Instead we have a dude sticking his finger in his mouth and then holding it in the breeze for a bit...
The guidelines around trading future picks will get ironed out when hawthorn & Geeling apply for priority picks in a few years.
- WellardSaint
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Re: Jaxons come on down
dragit wrote:Let's be honest the AFL don't have any real rules or genuine formulas...
The free agency compensation "formula" is a prime example, if there was actually any formula it wouldn't be very hard to communicate and calculate... X years x Y dollars = z
Instead we have a dude sticking his finger in his mouth and then holding it in the breeze for a bit...
The guidelines around trading future picks will get ironed out when hawthorn & Geeling apply for priority picks in a few years.
![Image](https://media.makeameme.org/created/afl-draft-rules-v8msgd.jpg)
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and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
- ace
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Re: Jaxons come on down
PRECISELYRosco wrote:i've noticed this too, ace.Wigsy wrote:You can trade it out if you trade another in just as we were able to trade either of next year's first rounders.ace wrote:Just been looking at the AFL trade tracker.
They have the Koby Stevens deal now showing as deal 39 lodged at 1.58PM.
The last deal lodged before 2:00PM dealine.
One minute later would have been fine, two minutes later the deal gets rejected.
The AFL indicative draft order still can't sort out Carlton's involvement in the O'Meara deal they show:
Hawthorn receiving and keeping GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton.
Gold Coast receiving a 2017 2nd rounder from Hawthorn. It can not be Hawthorn's 2nd rounder as that would be illegal. Hawthorn had already traded their 2017 1st rounder to St Kilda.
It can not be Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder because Carlton had already traded that to Geelong along with Zach Tuohy in return for Billie Smedts and Geelong's 2017 1st rounder.
The 2017 2nd rounder received by Gold Coast from Hawthorn has to be GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton and via Hawthorn.
Oh and Hawthorn ends up with no-one else's 2017 2nd rounder other than their own.
looks like hawthorn was able to trade 2017 1st & 2nd rounder on the basis that they have kept a 2nd rounder (originally belonging to GWS and received via carlton).
this doesn't not appear to have been permitted by the rules as written.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/i ... raft-order
Clubs may trade future draft selections. Clubs must:
• Only trade selections from the following year's draft
• Make at least two first-round selections in each four-year period. If they don't, they will face restrictions from trading any further first-round draft picks
If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds.
so you should be able to trade other picks you get in, but you have to keep your own (i.e. hawthorn could have on-traded the GWS 2nd round pick to GCS but not their own 2nd round pick as they had already traded their 1st round pick to us).
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
- ace
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Re: Jaxons come on down
I know that there are no rules while playing the game only guidelines to umpires that change from week to week but I thought they had rules for the trading of players.WellardSaint wrote:dragit wrote:Let's be honest the AFL don't have any real rules or genuine formulas...
The free agency compensation "formula" is a prime example, if there was actually any formula it wouldn't be very hard to communicate and calculate... X years x Y dollars = z
Instead we have a dude sticking his finger in his mouth and then holding it in the breeze for a bit...
The guidelines around trading future picks will get ironed out when hawthorn & Geeling apply for priority picks in a few years.
Last edited by ace on Fri 21 Oct 2016 11:17pm, edited 1 time in total.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
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Re: Jaxons come on down
![Image](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4d/Trading_Places.jpg/220px-Trading_Places.jpg)
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
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“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
St Kilda - At least we have a Crest!
- desertsaint
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Re: Jaxons come on down
one of the best comedies out there - up there with planes, trains, automobiles, and groundhog day.Jacks Back wrote:
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
Re: Jaxons come on down
I thought this was quite relevant to our "STUNNING SWAP" reported by the Herald Sun
HAWTHORN secured picks 10 + 68 = 1454 points.
ST KILDA secured picks 23 + 36 + 2017 pick 1-18 = between 2302 and 4317 points.
If Hawks win 2017 flag, Saints win trade by 848 points (equivalent of pick 22 for free).
If Hawks finish fifth in 2017, as they did this year, Saints win trade by 1024 points (equivalent of pick 17).
If Hawks get 2017 wooden spoon, Saints win trade by 2863 points (equivalent of pick 1-2).
The Herald Sun reported last year that a discrepancy of more than 200 points would trigger alarm bells with the AFL and could be rejected.
HAWTHORN secured picks 10 + 68 = 1454 points.
ST KILDA secured picks 23 + 36 + 2017 pick 1-18 = between 2302 and 4317 points.
If Hawks win 2017 flag, Saints win trade by 848 points (equivalent of pick 22 for free).
If Hawks finish fifth in 2017, as they did this year, Saints win trade by 1024 points (equivalent of pick 17).
If Hawks get 2017 wooden spoon, Saints win trade by 2863 points (equivalent of pick 1-2).
The Herald Sun reported last year that a discrepancy of more than 200 points would trigger alarm bells with the AFL and could be rejected.
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Jaxons come on down
If you look at the draft points table you notice the points curve flattens out from pick 19 to 36 meaning there is good value in these picks.
Elshaugh and Bains know this which is why they were probably content to use both 2nd rd picks in the draft
We have the opportunity to bring in four more good young players in the next 13 months which provides us with long term success
We get these picks right we might be playing finals for the next seven years.
Elshaugh and Bains know this which is why they were probably content to use both 2nd rd picks in the draft
We have the opportunity to bring in four more good young players in the next 13 months which provides us with long term success
We get these picks right we might be playing finals for the next seven years.
- saintsRrising
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Re: Jaxons come on down
Have a look at Arsenic and Old Lacedesertsaint wrote:one of the best comedies out there - up there with planes, trains, automobiles, and groundhog day.Jacks Back wrote:
And oldie, but a goodie.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Re: Jaxons come on down
Our this years second rounder has certainly been doing a lot of traveling
pick 31. points 606
Port Adelaide (received from Sydney Swans in a pick exchange; received by Sydney Swans from Greater Western Sydney in a pick exchange; received by GWS from from Brisbane Lions in a pick exchange; received from Collingwood as part of 2015 James Aish-Ryan Bastinac trade; originally received from St Kilda via trade for Nathan Freeman)
pick 31. points 606
Port Adelaide (received from Sydney Swans in a pick exchange; received by Sydney Swans from Greater Western Sydney in a pick exchange; received by GWS from from Brisbane Lions in a pick exchange; received from Collingwood as part of 2015 James Aish-Ryan Bastinac trade; originally received from St Kilda via trade for Nathan Freeman)
- ace
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Re: Jaxons come on down
Nobody wants pick 31, Port Adelaide was left holding the baby when the music stopped.Playon wrote:Our this years second rounder has certainly been doing a lot of traveling
pick 31. points 606
Port Adelaide (received from Sydney Swans in a pick exchange; received by Sydney Swans from Greater Western Sydney in a pick exchange; received by GWS from from Brisbane Lions in a pick exchange; received from Collingwood as part of 2015 James Aish-Ryan Bastinac trade; originally received from St Kilda via trade for Nathan Freeman)
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Jaxons come on down
So when Jaxons made a passing reference to 'families' coming together.
Was that the Weller or the Brown brothers?
Was that the Weller or the Brown brothers?
- saintbrat
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Re: Jaxons come on down
Playon wrote:Our this years second rounder has certainly been doing a lot of traveling
pick 31. points 606
Port Adelaide (received from Sydney Swans in a pick exchange; received by Sydney Swans from Greater Western Sydney in a pick exchange; received by GWS from from Brisbane Lions in a pick exchange; received from Collingwood as part of 2015 James Aish-Ryan Bastinac trade; originally received from St Kilda via trade for Nathan Freeman)
Pick 35 also did a few Km's
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/2 ... s72x7.htmlPick 35 was a homing pigeon, starting and finishing the trade period with Fremantle. The Dockers sent the second-round selection to the Bulldogs, as part of a trade for premiership defender Joel Hamling. The Bulldogs then transferred it to Gold Coast, swapping it and pick 43 for the Suns' pick 26. And the Suns then sent it back to the Dockers, trading it and pick 71 for pick 73 and the Dockers' second-round pick in 2017. Does that all sound clear?
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Re: Jaxons come on down
Also an update on Nat Fyfe from Brad Hardie tonight:
"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.
Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.
Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."
"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.
Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.
Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."
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Re: Jaxons come on down
Yep - as a few of us on this site have said repeatedly, its,highly unlikely that Fyfe will move . And let's be honest, if he does consider a move, highly unlikely that Saints will be at the top of his destination clubs.jaxons wrote:Also an update on Nat Fyfe from Brad Hardie tonight:
"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.
Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.
Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."
“If you want the rainbow you gotta put up with rain” Dolly Parton
- ace
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Re: Jaxons come on down
How did Hawthorn get away with giving their 2017 second rounder to Gold Coast instead of that from GWS via Carlton.jaxons wrote:Also an update on Nat Fyfe from Brad Hardie tonight:
"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.
Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.
Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."
From AFL Indicative Draft
"If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds."
Is it like playing a match, there are rules but they are not enforced.
There are guidelines to umpires that change from week to week and are enforced so play to the guidelines.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: Jaxons come on down
Fyfe aint going anywhere.Zed wrote:Yep - as a few of us on this site have said repeatedly, its,highly unlikely that Fyfe will move . And let's be honest, if he does consider a move, highly unlikely that Saints will be at the top of his destination clubs.jaxons wrote:Also an update on Nat Fyfe from Brad Hardie tonight:
"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.
Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.
Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."
We need to keep looking at GWS. Shiel or Kelly have the 'go home factor' for us. If they win the flag this year - which is highly likely - they might be content to move on.
- ace
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Re: Jaxons come on down
How did Hawthorn get away with giving their 2017 second rounder to Gold Coast instead of that from GWS via Carlton.
From AFL Indicative Draft
"If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds."
Is it like playing a match, there are rules but they are not enforced.
There are guidelines to umpires that change from week to week and are enforced so play to the guidelines.
Hey lets swap 2018 first round draft picks, we will give players X , Y, & Z.
Brisbane then drops 17 places in the first round for 2018 but probably 22 places during the progress of the draft.
Brisbane then goes and trades their second third and fourth round picks from 2018.
They can do this because they still have GWS 2018 1st rounder.
That's OK.
From AFL Indicative Draft
"If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds."
Is it like playing a match, there are rules but they are not enforced.
There are guidelines to umpires that change from week to week and are enforced so play to the guidelines.
So at the 2017 trade period GWS (premiers) goes to Brisbane (wooden spooners) and says.Rosco wrote:we will never get an answer other than it was approved by the AFL
Hey lets swap 2018 first round draft picks, we will give players X , Y, & Z.
Brisbane then drops 17 places in the first round for 2018 but probably 22 places during the progress of the draft.
Brisbane then goes and trades their second third and fourth round picks from 2018.
They can do this because they still have GWS 2018 1st rounder.
That's OK.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA