Waste Of Space

[Sainternist]

Yep, this argument Longer vs Hickey debate has now been going for donkeys years. Hickey is clearly the better player, yet the selection panel still can't decide on which ruckman to go for. The good news is Billy's contract will run out at the end of the season. I cannot imagine it being renewed. Meanwhile, what is going on with Lewis Pierce?

*Cue the usual routine tantrum from our forum ruck expert who actually thinks Longer is worth his salt*

[suss]

We have 2 half ruckman. Longer competes and does provide a physical presence ( put Gawn on his butt a few times last week) but gives us nothing around the ground . Hickey is a better footballer, especially around the ground but provide minimal physical presence and at times you question his want to even compete. Put Longer' aggression to the contest with Hickey's around the ground skills and we would have a good ruckman.

Longer to Geelong, Hickey to Richmond and go get Lycett.

Make this post a sticky so that next time Hickey is promoted to the seniors and proceeds to play a shocker - and everyone on here proceeds to blame the coach - they can be reminded that both ruckmen are bloody ordinary.

I’m sure that the coach would prefer to play neither, and that the club is in the market for an a-grader.

I think the club will keep one of them and grab someone like Lycett.

[samuraisaint]

Hickey didn't play a shocker against Sydney - he played a poor first quarter. Let's be honest, in a poor team, for two months, he did an effective job after Billy got injured, especially around the ground. But his best games were when Marshall and he played in the same team, no doubt.

Longer didn't play a shocker yesterday either, he was named amongst our best by the Age expert in the paper today, and until he got injured in the third quarter he was holding his own in the centre against Ryder, I thought.
EDIT: Ryder hit outs 25 Longer 24, Ryder 7 possessions Longer 9 (thanks to Borderbarry on BigFooty).

Most successful teams - such as Hawthorn and West Coast - play two ruckmen, and when we did do that Hickey does fine. And I think Billy would benefit from this too.

If we actually start to play more of these players we recruit then a lot of our current established players are going to look a lot better.
No-one blames the coach if he doesn't perform, maybe they should though, as it is the coaches' job to improve these players skills and performances, isn't it? But they should for not playing a second ruck, like Marshall, Pierce or Longer in the same team, like any sensible team selection strategy would practice, especially when we have four key position talls all out injured at the same time.

[To the top]

As I have put before the problem with Longer is that he brings nothing other than being able to contest ruck contests because of his height

This is why we are pitifully unbalanced when he plays - having to ruck Bruce, Acres, Battle and Mc Cartin to the detriment of our potency elsewhere

The reason for this is that Longer can not be pushed forward to create a mid match

When he is on the ground he has to ruck

So we can not play another ruck to compliment Longer because he can not be complimented - he is strictly one dimensional (and not the only one on our List with that limiting deficiency)

With Hickey and Marshall they can compliment each other because they can be on the field whilst not rucking

I know it is VFL but, over the last 2 weeks, Hickey and Marshall have pushed to 50 disposals between them each week - Marshall also kicking goals and Hickey a couple of misses (from VFL stats)

At AFL level Marshall needed to improve his marking - but he has only played a couple of games

Hickey has ranged between 15 to 20 disposals per game at AFL level

Whilst both lean, both are over 200cm so able to at least provide a contest in the ruck

Then contribute to the flow of the game because of their versatility and football skills

Plus that we do not have to rob any presence elsewhere to relieve in the ruck

Hence I assess Longer a liability to the side

And my preference to establish Hickey and Marshall in the side

If they can contribute to a level anywhere near what they have contributed for Sandringham over the last 2 weeks we will be laughing

Even better than when we had Gardiner and King because King was not particularly athletic

[stonecold]

f*** off back to your soft-c**k round ball sport, no credit for cement heads on a true football forum!!!!!

<warning for abuse>

Who was I abusing?????

I didn't mention any names or quote anyone in particular!!!!!!

Nice of someone to take offence and lag, typical mentality of a round ball supporter/player, lay on the ground and squeal like a little baby!!!!!

Soft!!!!!

[To the top]

We will see what others make of your response

I have no interest in your abuse

What I would put however is that you should be banned from contributing to this Forum not only in your own interests because you obviously have mental issues where your presence on this Forum - and others? - is an impediment to recognition and treatment but also in the interests of the integrity of this Forum

[suss]

Hickey didn't play a shocker against Sydney - he played a poor first quarter. Let's be honest, in a poor team, for two months, he did an effective job after Billy got injured, especially around the ground. But his best games were when Marshall and he played in the same team, no doubt.
Longer didn't play a shocker yesterday either, he was named amongst our best by the Age expert in the paper today, and until he got injured in the third quarter he was holding his own in the centre against Ryder, I thought.
Most successful teams - such as Hawthorn and West Coast - play two ruckmen, and when we did do that Hickey does fine. And I think Billy would benefit from this too.
If we actually start to play more of these players we recruit then a lot of our current established players are going to look a lot better.
No-one blames the coach if he doesn't perform, maybe they should though, as it is the coaches' job to improve these players skills and performances, isn't it? But they should for not playing a second ruck, like Marshall, Pierce or Longer in the same team, like any sensible team selection strategy would practice, especially when we have four key position talls all out injured at the same time.

I'm not saying that Hickey plays shockers every game - you're doing that internet thing of taking a fairly simple observation and turning it into an absurd absolute.

I am saying that both Hickey and Longer are ordinary ruckman.

I am saying that the coach often gets potted for playing "favourites" or selecting the wrong ruckman when one plays a bad game in the seniors and the other plays a good game in the seconds.

I am saying that the club will get a better ruckman than both of them.

[samuraisaint]

Sure, no worries.

[stonecold]

We will see what others make of your response

I have no interest in your abuse

What I would put however is that you should be banned from contributing to this Forum not only in your own interests because you obviously have mental issues where your presence on this Forum - and others? - is an impediment to recognition and treatment but also in the interests of the integrity of this Forum

Are you referring to me, cause I didn't mention you?????

[Crossy66]

Thought Longers game was ok on Saturday night and he broke even with Ryder. He also had 13 pressure acts to go with the stats mentioned above . No doubt he is down on last years form and an injury disrupted start to the season didn't help. Good to see Hickey putting on the pressure for selection and you would expect will be considered for the blues game. But just to put it into perspective, his game against Port where he was close to BOG, he was pitted against Strachan and Heretuku - not household names. Against Coburg he didn't get a mention in the best players and Coburg dont have a Ruckman of note either. Longer played against the best in the game, Gawn, got towelled up and broke even with Ryder.
Either way, i would rather see us spend our pennies on speedy gun mids atm. Inside / outside is not the issue, i think its foot speed we are missing.

[saynta]

Thought Longers game was ok on Saturday night and he broke even with Ryder. He also had 13 pressure acts to go with the stats mentioned above . No doubt he is down on last years form and an injury disrupted start to the season didn't help. Good to see Hickey putting on the pressure for selection and you would expect will be considered for the blues game. But just to put it into perspective, his game against Port where he was close to BOG, he was pitted against Strachan and Heretuku - not household names. Against Coburg he didn't get a mention in the best players and Coburg dont have a Ruckman of note either. Longer played against the best in the game, Gawn, got towelled up and broke even with Ryder.
Either way, i would rather see us spend our pennies on speedy gun mids atm. Inside / outside is not the issue, i think its foot speed we are missing.

Yes he did.

"State league affiliate: Sandringham (VFL)
This weekend: Coburg v Sandringham - Saturday, July 7, 2pm, Piranha Park

Talented midfielder Blake Acres racked up 33 disposals in his return from a groin injury as Sandringham drew with Coburg at Piranha Park on Saturday afternoon.

A late free kick and 50m penalty allowed rookie Doulton Langlands to slot a goal and level the scores.

Key forward Rowan Marshall booted three goals while Irishman Ray Connellan slotted two.

Ruckman Tom Hickey continued his impressive form, collecting 28 disposals, while Jack Lonie (27) was also prolific.

The Zebras had more shots at goal but were more inaccurate, booting 11.13 (79) to 12.7 (79).

Sydney Swans

[stonecold]

Thought Longers game was ok on Saturday night and he broke even with Ryder. He also had 13 pressure acts to go with the stats mentioned above . No doubt he is down on last years form and an injury disrupted start to the season didn't help. Good to see Hickey putting on the pressure for selection and you would expect will be considered for the blues game. But just to put it into perspective, his game against Port where he was close to BOG, he was pitted against Strachan and Heretuku - not household names. Against Coburg he didn't get a mention in the best players and Coburg dont have a Ruckman of note either. Longer played against the best in the game, Gawn, got towelled up and broke even with Ryder.
Either way, i would rather see us spend our pennies on speedy gun mids atm. Inside / outside is not the issue, i think its foot speed we are missing.

Yes he did.

"State league affiliate: Sandringham (VFL)
This weekend: Coburg v Sandringham - Saturday, July 7, 2pm, Piranha Park

Talented midfielder Blake Acres racked up 33 disposals in his return from a groin injury as Sandringham drew with Coburg at Piranha Park on Saturday afternoon.

A late free kick and 50m penalty allowed rookie Doulton Langlands to slot a goal and level the scores.

Key forward Rowan Marshall booted three goals while Irishman Ray Connellan slotted two.

Ruckman Tom Hickey continued his impressive form, collecting 28 disposals, while Jack Lonie (27) was also prolific.

The Zebras had more shots at goal but were more inaccurate, booting 11.13 (79) to 12.7 (79).

Sydney Swans

Last week Tom wasn't named in the official best players!!!!!

Cheap disposals maybe?????

[stonecold]

Yep, this argument Longer vs Hickey debate has now been going for donkeys years. Hickey is clearly the better player, yet the selection panel still can't decide on which ruckman to go for. The good news is Billy's contract will run out at the end of the season. I cannot imagine it being renewed. Meanwhile, what is going on with Lewis Pierce?

*Cue the usual routine tantrum from our forum ruck expert who actually thinks Longer is worth his salt*

Ted Danson hasn't aged very well, has he?????

Cheers!!!!!

[The_Dud]

Just learned a fun bit of trivia; in the history of the St Kilda FC, who holds the record for most hitouts in a game??

Hint, it’s not Jeff Sarau

[stonecold]

Just learned a fun bit of trivia; in the history of the St Kilda FC, who holds the record for most hitouts in a game??

Hint, it’s not Jeff Sarau

Me!!!!!

[The_Dud]

Just learned a fun bit of trivia; in the history of the St Kilda FC, who holds the record for most hitouts in a game??

Hint, it’s not Jeff Sarau

Me!!!!!

That would be an M. Night Shyamalan worthy twist!!!

[stonecold]

Just learned a fun bit of trivia; in the history of the St Kilda FC, who holds the record for most hitouts in a game??

Hint, it’s not Jeff Sarau

Me!!!!!

That would be an M. Night Shyamalan worthy twist!!!

Would be, makes ya Wonder!!!!!

[Crossy66]

Thought Longers game was ok on Saturday night and he broke even with Ryder. He also had 13 pressure acts to go with the stats mentioned above . No doubt he is down on last years form and an injury disrupted start to the season didn't help. Good to see Hickey putting on the pressure for selection and you would expect will be considered for the blues game. But just to put it into perspective, his game against Port where he was close to BOG, he was pitted against Strachan and Heretuku - not household names. Against Coburg he didn't get a mention in the best players and Coburg dont have a Ruckman of note either. Longer played against the best in the game, Gawn, got towelled up and broke even with Ryder.
Either way, i would rather see us spend our pennies on speedy gun mids atm. Inside / outside is not the issue, i think its foot speed we are missing.

Yes he did.

"State league affiliate: Sandringham (VFL)
This weekend: Coburg v Sandringham - Saturday, July 7, 2pm, Piranha Park

Talented midfielder Blake Acres racked up 33 disposals in his return from a groin injury as Sandringham drew with Coburg at Piranha Park on Saturday afternoon.

A late free kick and 50m penalty allowed rookie Doulton Langlands to slot a goal and level the scores.

Key forward Rowan Marshall booted three goals while Irishman Ray Connellan slotted two.

Ruckman Tom Hickey continued his impressive form, collecting 28 disposals, while Jack Lonie (27) was also prolific.

The Zebras had more shots at goal but were more inaccurate, booting 11.13 (79) to 12.7 (79).

Sydney Swans

No I dont think so Saynta. The article says he got 28 disposals, not that he was in the best players.
Here are the best players:

SANDRINGHAM
Goal Kickers: R. Marshall 3, R. Connellan 2, K. Answerth, T. Lamb, D. Langlands, J. Haidon, H. Mclean, J. Noone
Best Players: R. Marshall, H. Goddard, J. Lonie, B. Paton, K. Answerth, B. Acres

http://websites.sportstg.com/round_info ... 2-0&pool=1

[Scollop]

Longer was smart on Saturday against Port and kicked the footy off the ground a few times so his disposals actually reflect a few non-effective kicks off the ground not your normal disposal of an attempted pass or long bomb. Both his kicks and his handballs are usually not effective and perhaps half go directly back to the opposition

Stonecold hangs his hat on coaches votes and there's a clue as to why when you go back to the Melbourne game at the MCG last year. Richo only gave Longer votes as a Saints player simply based on Longer's tap out wins ( certainly not his marking or impact around the ground). It was an important game for us and for the Dees in that the winner last year was in with a show of making the top 8.

Gawn didn't dominate in that game last year ( although Gawn was solid with marks and disposals) and it was good that Longer played his role and perhaps was even ahead of his opponent slightly based on an overall hitouts and possessions, however if it was any other coach they wouldn't have had Longer figuring in votes based on an average ruckman's performance in a losing team. That's right!! It 's not like Longer single handedly got us close or helped us win or had an outstanding game.

There'll always be players that coaches prefer and there'll always be guys that should be in the firsts but because there are players in there wasting space, they can't get enough opportunities to play seniors.

You guys should stick to the thread topic and stop wasting space on the guy that Richo doesn't want in the firsts.

[stonecold]

Longer was smart on Saturday against Port and kicked the footy off the ground a few times so his disposals actually reflect a few non-effective kicks off the ground not your normal disposal of an attempted pass or long bomb. Both his kicks and his handballs are usually not effective and perhaps half go directly back to the opposition

Stonecold hangs his hat on coaches votes and there's a clue as to why when you go back to the Melbourne game at the MCG last year. Richo only gave Longer votes as a Saints player simply based on Longer's tap out wins ( certainly not his marking or impact around the ground). It was an important game for us and for the Dees in that the winner last year was in with a show of making the top 8.

Gawn didn't dominate in that game last year ( although Gawn was solid with marks and disposals) and it was good that Longer played his role and perhaps was even ahead of his opponent slightly based on an overall hitouts and possessions, however if it was any other coach they wouldn't have had Longer figuring in votes based on an average ruckman's performance in a losing team. That's right!! It 's not like Longer single handedly got us close or helped us win or had an outstanding game.

There'll always be players that coaches prefer and there'll always be guys that should be in the firsts but because there are players in there wasting space, they can't get enough opportunities to play seniors.

You guys should stick to the thread topic and stop wasting space on the guy that Richo doesn't want in the firsts.

Same boring s*** from you and don't speak on my behalf, thanks!!!!!

[Sainternist]

Yep, this argument Longer vs Hickey debate has now been going for donkeys years. Hickey is clearly the better player, yet the selection panel still can't decide on which ruckman to go for. The good news is Billy's contract will run out at the end of the season. I cannot imagine it being renewed. Meanwhile, what is going on with Lewis Pierce?

*Cue the usual routine tantrum from our forum ruck expert who actually thinks Longer is worth his salt*

Ted Danson hasn't aged very well, has he?????

Context, please?

[Linton Lodger]

Spent a weekend in Adelaide, just got back. Obviously I went to the game but haven't seen it on telly. I get on here tonight and cannot believe that Longer is in any shape or form, been held accountable for our loss!

We were pushing sh*t uphill from the get go with the loss of Carlisle, Brown and Bruce as a replacement for Battle. Joyce and Austin holding down the key defensive posts against Dixon, Westoff and (an in form) Watts. Despite all the love on here for Austin, he's got to learn to defend, he loses touch of his opponent too easily.

Yet in the first quarter we outplayed them, should've been ahead at quarter time. I saw Paddy roll his ankle during the game, he kept playing but is now out for three weeks. So he was probably on one foot from early on. Port got a hold of us early in the second quarter and that's when they set up the win. At the end of the day we couldn't cope with their big forwards.

The Ruck dual was good, Longer and Ryder hit each other hard and I thought were about even. Nothing to do with the loss and probably what kept us thereabouts. I say whereabouts because from my vantage point, we were in the game until late. The multitude of Port supporters were certainly tense until the last 10 minutes.

I liked the fact that we played the same style of game as we did against Melbourne and even when things went wrong and Port got on top, we persisted with that game and didn't crawl into our shells, a good sign. Given our outs it wasn't a bad performance, Port are in form and a genuine top 4 contender.

[ace]

He gives us nothing played with 17 players last night our backs where under the pump at least he could have sat in their goal square than seating in the grandstand dud

What I find VERY hard to believe is that 2 people who watch football could actually think Longer is any good. I just dont think that is possible.. The only conclusion I can draw from that impossibility is that

Stonecold must be Richo!!

We have Richo as a regular on the forum!

pretty privileged

Nah, StoneCold is actually Longer.
He is entitled to fight for his job in anyway possible.

[Scollop]

Stonecold could be several people and depends who logs on at any one time, but I think The_Dud alerted us a couple of weeks back that Billy might be one of the posters behind the log in.

[stonecold]

Yep, this argument Longer vs Hickey debate has now been going for donkeys years. Hickey is clearly the better player, yet the selection panel still can't decide on which ruckman to go for. The good news is Billy's contract will run out at the end of the season. I cannot imagine it being renewed. Meanwhile, what is going on with Lewis Pierce?

*Cue the usual routine tantrum from our forum ruck expert who actually thinks Longer is worth his salt*

Ted Danson hasn't aged very well, has he?????

Context, please?

You claim to be a smart individual, you'll work it out, it's right in front of your nose!!!!!