Dumb Football

[Teflon]

No surprises here.
We are the worst coached team in terms of strategy and structure in the AFL it is a joke.
The win does nothing for me except delay the inevitable. Let's not get carried away we beat a team that was amateur standard at best and how was our football looking 24 minutes into the third quarter.
We continue hand balling backwards, kicking sideways and backwards, long bombing to a forward structure that has 3 forward competing in a marking contest against each other.
I am embarrassed that in modern day football that we put on a display like this in terms of strategy and ball movement.
I think we have some talent in this team and with the right coach and strategy we would be a lot better.
Not one player has improved their football this year, not even Jimmy Webster. The funniest is listening to the after match press conference last night you would think we have just won a flag.
'Strong, Enormous, Courage, Proud, Full of Character etc' were words thrown around.
Wow!

I assume you're no longer the club janitor after the move away from Seaford?

jaxons is most likely
a guy on a forum with NFI
and he might be related to a past player, like maybe his auntie used to date
Jason Heatley or Lazar Vidovic or Aaron Fiora back in the day
so he thinks he is somehow connected to the club.

I think jaxons has more of an idea than you do, and I am not one to defend him out of hand, but when it comes down to a choice between the two of you, it isn't a real contest or hard decision for me to make.

So get off jaxons' back.

Nurse....

[Teflon]

No surprises here.
We are the worst coached team in terms of strategy and structure in the AFL it is a joke.
The win does nothing for me except delay the inevitable. Let's not get carried away we beat a team that was amateur standard at best and how was our football looking 24 minutes into the third quarter.
We continue hand balling backwards, kicking sideways and backwards, long bombing to a forward structure that has 3 forward competing in a marking contest against each other.
I am embarrassed that in modern day football that we put on a display like this in terms of strategy and ball movement.
I think we have some talent in this team and with the right coach and strategy we would be a lot better.
Not one player has improved their football this year, not even Jimmy Webster. The funniest is listening to the after match press conference last night you would think we have just won a flag.
'Strong, Enormous, Courage, Proud, Full of Character etc' were words thrown around.
Wow!

What’s scary Jax is the noises coming from the club is that Richo just needs a few gun assistants and he’ll be the messiah......I don’t see it
I too am wondering how much breathing space a win over a VFL standard team buys him but imo the heat isn’t off at all and a few more bad losses before this seasons done and surely his position becomes untenable?

[jaxons]

No surprises here.
We are the worst coached team in terms of strategy and structure in the AFL it is a joke.
The win does nothing for me except delay the inevitable. Let's not get carried away we beat a team that was amateur standard at best and how was our football looking 24 minutes into the third quarter.
We continue hand balling backwards, kicking sideways and backwards, long bombing to a forward structure that has 3 forward competing in a marking contest against each other.
I am embarrassed that in modern day football that we put on a display like this in terms of strategy and ball movement.
I think we have some talent in this team and with the right coach and strategy we would be a lot better.
Not one player has improved their football this year, not even Jimmy Webster. The funniest is listening to the after match press conference last night you would think we have just won a flag.
'Strong, Enormous, Courage, Proud, Full of Character etc' were words thrown around.
Wow!

What’s scary Jax is the noises coming from the club is that Richo just needs a few gun assistants and he’ll be the messiah......I don’t see it
I too am wondering how much breathing space a win over a VFL standard team buys him but imo the heat isn’t off at all and a few more bad losses before this seasons done and surely his position becomes untenable?

I think the club have to say this now, but still suspect changes are coming end of the year.
Nothing I have seen or heard suggests Richo is the man at the helm next year.

[Teflon]

No surprises here.
We are the worst coached team in terms of strategy and structure in the AFL it is a joke.
The win does nothing for me except delay the inevitable. Let's not get carried away we beat a team that was amateur standard at best and how was our football looking 24 minutes into the third quarter.
We continue hand balling backwards, kicking sideways and backwards, long bombing to a forward structure that has 3 forward competing in a marking contest against each other.
I am embarrassed that in modern day football that we put on a display like this in terms of strategy and ball movement.
I think we have some talent in this team and with the right coach and strategy we would be a lot better.
Not one player has improved their football this year, not even Jimmy Webster. The funniest is listening to the after match press conference last night you would think we have just won a flag.
'Strong, Enormous, Courage, Proud, Full of Character etc' were words thrown around.
Wow!

What’s scary Jax is the noises coming from the club is that Richo just needs a few gun assistants and he’ll be the messiah......I don’t see it
I too am wondering how much breathing space a win over a VFL standard team buys him but imo the heat isn’t off at all and a few more bad losses before this seasons done and surely his position becomes untenable?

I think the club have to say this now, but still suspect changes are coming end of the year.
Nothing I have seen or heard suggests Richo is the man at the helm next year.

Hope you’re right
Reading a lot from those suggesting they have some inside knowledge suggesting Lethlean is an absolute pr!ck and in this climate exactly what we need in that he will clean out the deadwood with little emotional attachment to the club and his drive will be: self interest/ego as he feels he has bigger fish to fry back at AFL HQ once he’s done his time in club purgatory...

Clearly time and a place for these narcissistic types....but now does appear appropriate
Time will tell I guess

[prwilkinson]

Jaxons, what do you think is the best style & strategy for this playing group going forward?

The last kick just kills this team... it's so cringey watching the bomb it on the head of three forwards approach.

[rodgerfox]

No surprises here.
We are the worst coached team in terms of strategy and structure in the AFL it is a joke.
The win does nothing for me except delay the inevitable. Let's not get carried away we beat a team that was amateur standard at best and how was our football looking 24 minutes into the third quarter.
We continue hand balling backwards, kicking sideways and backwards, long bombing to a forward structure that has 3 forward competing in a marking contest against each other.
I am embarrassed that in modern day football that we put on a display like this in terms of strategy and ball movement.
I think we have some talent in this team and with the right coach and strategy we would be a lot better.
Not one player has improved their football this year, not even Jimmy Webster. The funniest is listening to the after match press conference last night you would think we have just won a flag.
'Strong, Enormous, Courage, Proud, Full of Character etc' were words thrown around.
Wow!

What’s scary Jax is the noises coming from the club is that Richo just needs a few gun assistants and he’ll be the messiah......I don’t see it
I too am wondering how much breathing space a win over a VFL standard team buys him but imo the heat isn’t off at all and a few more bad losses before this seasons done and surely his position becomes untenable?

But can we rule that out?

As a mug supporter, all I know is that the coaching stinks. But I don't know how the coaching panel is structured, and don't know who is responsible for what. Adam Kinglsey has been at the club for 8 years.

Maybe Richardson is merely a good development coach and isn't up to being a head coach? But how would we know?

Maybe he's good at implementing the strategies that his assistants are paid to produce - and it's the strategies that suck? But how would we know?

This is why I sit on the fence with this one.

I'd hate for them to sack Richardson, and after he's gone we find out that the shitty strategies we see each week are still there because the blokes like Kingsley that developed them are still there.

[saynta]

Richardson will be there next year, Kingsley won't be.

[Teflon]

No surprises here.
We are the worst coached team in terms of strategy and structure in the AFL it is a joke.
The win does nothing for me except delay the inevitable. Let's not get carried away we beat a team that was amateur standard at best and how was our football looking 24 minutes into the third quarter.
We continue hand balling backwards, kicking sideways and backwards, long bombing to a forward structure that has 3 forward competing in a marking contest against each other.
I am embarrassed that in modern day football that we put on a display like this in terms of strategy and ball movement.
I think we have some talent in this team and with the right coach and strategy we would be a lot better.
Not one player has improved their football this year, not even Jimmy Webster. The funniest is listening to the after match press conference last night you would think we have just won a flag.
'Strong, Enormous, Courage, Proud, Full of Character etc' were words thrown around.
Wow!

What’s scary Jax is the noises coming from the club is that Richo just needs a few gun assistants and he’ll be the messiah......I don’t see it
I too am wondering how much breathing space a win over a VFL standard team buys him but imo the heat isn’t off at all and a few more bad losses before this seasons done and surely his position becomes untenable?

But can we rule that out?

As a mug supporter, all I know is that the coaching stinks. But I don't know how the coaching panel is structured, and don't know who is responsible for what. Adam Kinglsey has been at the club for 8 years.

Maybe Richardson is merely a good development coach and isn't up to being a head coach? But how would we know?

Maybe he's good at implementing the strategies that his assistants are paid to produce - and it's the strategies that suck? But how would we know?

This is why I sit on the fence with this one.

I'd hate for them to sack Richardson, and after he's gone we find out that the shitty strategies we see each week are still there because the blokes like Kingsley that developed them are still there.

Does it matter?
That thinking exonerates a senior AFL coach whose been at the helm 5 years. The same senior coach sprouting this list is finals capable - it’s not.

I’m not sure I buy the “poor,defenceless Alan has simply lacked the clout/nous to change this up after 5 years”

If a CEO leads a Corp to 5 year losses....they don’t keep just replacing GMs.....buck stops at top

Reality is we won’t know - but let’s hope to hell Lethlean has the smarts to call and see shots as needed.

[WellardSaint]

when the club sacked Watters, they did it after end of Nov, if I recall correctly (IIRC) because while the normal citizen and corporations have a financial year ending 30 June, the AFL does their financial reporting from 1 Dec- 1 Dec...
And another poster has spoken of the admin soft cap (?) which includes salaries for coaches+admin+hangerson,
and if we pay Richo out for 2 years, how can we pay another coach?

We have 14 coaches in total, crazy and insane,
when folks reckon that most clubs have 7.
Hawks, Swans, Crows, etc, I think tony74 had made this sort of comment.

[rodgerfox]

No surprises here.
We are the worst coached team in terms of strategy and structure in the AFL it is a joke.
The win does nothing for me except delay the inevitable. Let's not get carried away we beat a team that was amateur standard at best and how was our football looking 24 minutes into the third quarter.
We continue hand balling backwards, kicking sideways and backwards, long bombing to a forward structure that has 3 forward competing in a marking contest against each other.
I am embarrassed that in modern day football that we put on a display like this in terms of strategy and ball movement.
I think we have some talent in this team and with the right coach and strategy we would be a lot better.
Not one player has improved their football this year, not even Jimmy Webster. The funniest is listening to the after match press conference last night you would think we have just won a flag.
'Strong, Enormous, Courage, Proud, Full of Character etc' were words thrown around.
Wow!

What’s scary Jax is the noises coming from the club is that Richo just needs a few gun assistants and he’ll be the messiah......I don’t see it
I too am wondering how much breathing space a win over a VFL standard team buys him but imo the heat isn’t off at all and a few more bad losses before this seasons done and surely his position becomes untenable?

But can we rule that out?

As a mug supporter, all I know is that the coaching stinks. But I don't know how the coaching panel is structured, and don't know who is responsible for what. Adam Kinglsey has been at the club for 8 years.

Maybe Richardson is merely a good development coach and isn't up to being a head coach? But how would we know?

Maybe he's good at implementing the strategies that his assistants are paid to produce - and it's the strategies that suck? But how would we know?

This is why I sit on the fence with this one.

I'd hate for them to sack Richardson, and after he's gone we find out that the shitty strategies we see each week are still there because the blokes like Kingsley that developed them are still there.

Does it matter?
That thinking exonerates a senior AFL coach whose been at the helm 5 years. The same senior coach sprouting this list is finals capable - it’s not.

I’m not sure I buy the “poor,defenceless Alan has simply lacked the clout/nous to change this up after 5 years”

If a CEO leads a Corp to 5 year losses....they don’t keep just replacing GMs.....buck stops at top

Reality is we won’t know - but let’s hope to hell Lethlean has the smarts to call and see shots as needed.

Of course it matters.

You're forgetting that we had improved each year for the first 4 years.

So your CEO analogy is irrelevant.

As a supporter, I don't know what the Director of Coaching role entails.

I don't know who created the 'transition coach' role and who promoted Kingsley in to it.


What my post was saying, is that something has gone amiss this year.
With significant changes to the coaching structure this year - it could easily be assumed that these changes are why we've sucked so much this year, as opposed to the improvements of the previous 4 years.

And therefore, how do we know it's Richardson's fault?

[cwrcyn]

Seems to me that Richardson leaves the coaches box to get away from at least one of the assistant coaches....most likely the one who is responsible for 'transition football'. And who is the worst team in the league for transition football?

[Teflon]

No surprises here.
We are the worst coached team in terms of strategy and structure in the AFL it is a joke.
The win does nothing for me except delay the inevitable. Let's not get carried away we beat a team that was amateur standard at best and how was our football looking 24 minutes into the third quarter.
We continue hand balling backwards, kicking sideways and backwards, long bombing to a forward structure that has 3 forward competing in a marking contest against each other.
I am embarrassed that in modern day football that we put on a display like this in terms of strategy and ball movement.
I think we have some talent in this team and with the right coach and strategy we would be a lot better.
Not one player has improved their football this year, not even Jimmy Webster. The funniest is listening to the after match press conference last night you would think we have just won a flag.
'Strong, Enormous, Courage, Proud, Full of Character etc' were words thrown around.
Wow!

What’s scary Jax is the noises coming from the club is that Richo just needs a few gun assistants and he’ll be the messiah......I don’t see it
I too am wondering how much breathing space a win over a VFL standard team buys him but imo the heat isn’t off at all and a few more bad losses before this seasons done and surely his position becomes untenable?

But can we rule that out?

As a mug supporter, all I know is that the coaching stinks. But I don't know how the coaching panel is structured, and don't know who is responsible for what. Adam Kinglsey has been at the club for 8 years.

Maybe Richardson is merely a good development coach and isn't up to being a head coach? But how would we know?

Maybe he's good at implementing the strategies that his assistants are paid to produce - and it's the strategies that suck? But how would we know?

This is why I sit on the fence with this one.

I'd hate for them to sack Richardson, and after he's gone we find out that the shitty strategies we see each week are still there because the blokes like Kingsley that developed them are still there.

Does it matter?
That thinking exonerates a senior AFL coach whose been at the helm 5 years. The same senior coach sprouting this list is finals capable - it’s not.

I’m not sure I buy the “poor,defenceless Alan has simply lacked the clout/nous to change this up after 5 years”

If a CEO leads a Corp to 5 year losses....they don’t keep just replacing GMs.....buck stops at top

Reality is we won’t know - but let’s hope to hell Lethlean has the smarts to call and see shots as needed.

Of course it matters.

You're forgetting that we had improved each year for the first 4 years.

So your CEO analogy is irrelevant.

As a supporter, I don't know what the Director of Coaching role entails.

I don't know who created the 'transition coach' role and who promoted Kingsley in to it.


What my post was saying, is that something has gone amiss this year.
With significant changes to the coaching structure this year - it could easily be assumed that these changes are why we've sucked so much this year, as opposed to the improvements of the previous 4 years.

And therefore, how do we know it's Richardson's fault?

Again you’re ignoring who is overall accountable for coaching and onfield performance at St Kilda - the head coach is Richardson. Just like the CEO he is accountable for on field performance and a drastic fall in performance like the debacle this season has been has to largely rest with him. Your view also ignores Riches obvious role in agreeing to coaching structures that have been put in place around him (he will have had direct input here), again that decision also needs to be factored in.
Something doesn’t just “go amiss” this year eg the upcoming retirements of some great players wasn’t unexpected and again, Richo as senior coach is absolutely accountable for managing that transition. IF as part of his decision making process Richo has over valued list quality, as he talked it up often, then again he is accountable.

Finally, his record isn’t that of a high performing CEO - in football terms it’s deplorable and that can’t be ignored. As others point out his record isn’t comparable to Hardwick when he was struggling as he’d at minimum gotten his team into finals. Richo has also failed on that measure in a season where many noted we had a kind draw.

[rodgerfox]

Again you’re ignoring who is overall accountable for coaching and onfield performance at St Kilda - the head coach is Richardson. Just like the CEO he is accountable for on field performance and a drastic fall in performance like the debacle this season has been has to largely rest with him. Your view also ignores Riches obvious role in agreeing to coaching structures that have been put in place around him (he will have had direct input here), again that decision also needs to be factored in.

I don't know that he is like a CEO.

I was staggered when Geelong for example told Thompson to 'just coach' and restructured the coaching department around him, as up until that point - a coach was like a CEO.They ran the show. But now we suddenly saw that coaches don't do half the stuff they used to, and that we thought they did. Hardwick had his coaching team restructured around him against his will.

What is Danny Sexton's role? Does Richardson actually develop the strategy? Does Richardson have the final say into how the coaching team is structured?

Where does the Head of Football Operations fit in?

If the Head Coach is acting as the equivalent of a CEO in a large business - where do the Director of Coaching and the Head of Football Operations fit in?

Something doesn’t just “go amiss” this year eg the upcoming retirements of some great players wasn’t unexpected and again, Richo as senior coach is absolutely accountable for managing that transition. IF as part of his decision making process Richo has over valued list quality, as he talked it up often, then again he is accountable.

Is the head coach responsible for list management? Where does the List Manager fit in then?

Finally, his record isn’t that of a high performing CEO - in football terms it’s deplorable and that can’t be ignored. As others point out his record isn’t comparable to Hardwick when he was struggling as he’d at minimum gotten his team into finals. Richo has also failed on that measure in a season where many noted we had a kind draw.

It all depends on what his role actually is.

As a supporter, I don't know what his actual role is. He's the Head Coach - but where do his responsibilities start and stop?

I think it's obvious that the days of a Coach being equivalent of a CEO are well and truly over. They're not like soccer Managers, as GT constantly reminds us. He thinks they should be, and rejects the modern structure of the Coach 'just coaching'. So I think you're off the mark with that analogy.

We saw Ross Lyon throw his assistants under the bus the other year when he blamed Freo's shitness on the fact that his assistants were given too much trust.

So as I said, I'm far from a Richardson fan from what I've seen over the past two years. But I think the old 'sack the coach cause we're losing' approach is outdated. Where is the issue? Find it, and address it.

From afar, I have no way of telling where the problem lies.

[desertsaint]

The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team. all this noise about blaning someone under him is just that - noise. Can you imagine a coach like clarkson allowing one of his underlings to sabotage the team? Or 'hiding' away from the underling by leaving the box? Ridiculous.

[rodgerfox]

The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team.

I know 20 years ago they were.

But I'm not so sure these days. And I think it's a very simplistic view and very short sighted.

Historically they've been responsible, and that's because they were also accountable for the whole coaching department. But is the modern head coach actually accountable for everything that happens in the coaching department? And as a result, should they be responsible? Is the answer is no to the former - then surely it's also no to the latter.

[rodgerfox]

The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team. all this noise about blaning someone under him is just that - noise. Can you imagine a coach like clarkson allowing one of his underlings to sabotage the team? Or 'hiding' away from the underling by leaving the box? Ridiculous.

Well two clubs obviously disagree. Richmond and Collingwood both 'blamed' assistants and coaching structure instead of the Head Coach. It's not necessarily just noise at all.

Ross Lyon blamed his assistants for their form. He blamed the fact that he gave them too much control.

[asiu]

"Where is the issue? Find it, and address it."

yep

weeks ago i yarked on about the Role of an Observer

thats all he / she does

observing the overall health of the entity
... the 'same pageness' within an organisation
so to speak
... the clarity of the vision expressed ,
the clarity of the vision received
... the 'disconnects' , be they emotional , mental , financial or physical

if we had one if those
we would already know
in fact
we would have already have taken steps to rejig the issue

imo fwtw

[Yorkeys]

Nice conversation. Random thoughts:
- relationships within the football department must be strained. Not a fun place to work. Players will get that vibe but how it translates to form can only be speculated on.
- Board must be fed up with results and press commentary.
- regardless of the sunk investment the future value of AR's coaching (& assistants & Directors) must have been and is being heavily discounted with each loss. Will reach zero/negative levels soon on current trends.
-AR seems out of ideas but possibly not too bad at deflecting e.g. players, assistants, the org structure. Or maybe a gun coach stifled by assistants and club bureaucracy.
- 2018 might just be an unfortunate perfect storm of organisational stuff ups, failed experiments and bad luck but the wind and waves will subside after the bye and all of us that have questioned the coaching will feel sorry for such unworthy thoughts.
- pigs might fly.

[rodgerfox]

Nice conversation. Random thoughts:
- relationships within the football department must be strained. Not a fun place to work. Players will get that vibe but how it translates to form can only be speculated on.
- Board must be fed up with results and press commentary.
- regardless of the sunk investment the future value of AR's coaching (& assistants & Directors) must have been and is being heavily discounted with each loss. Will reach zero/negative levels soon on current trends.
-AR seems out of ideas but possibly not too bad at deflecting e.g. players, assistants, the org structure. Or maybe a gun coach stifled by assistants and club bureaucracy.
- 2018 might just be an unfortunate perfect storm of organisational stuff ups, failed experiments and bad luck but the wind and waves will subside after the bye and all of us that have questioned the coaching will feel sorry for such unworthy thoughts.
- pigs might fly.

I agree with all of the above - but I simply can't see him as being a star coach.

[desertsaint]

The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team. all this noise about blaning someone under him is just that - noise. Can you imagine a coach like clarkson allowing one of his underlings to sabotage the team? Or 'hiding' away from the underling by leaving the box? Ridiculous.

Well two clubs obviously disagree. Richmond and Collingwood both 'blamed' assistants and coaching structure instead of the Head Coach. It's not necessarily just noise at all.

Ross Lyon blamed his assistants for their form. He blamed the fact that he gave them too much control.

richmond and collingwood had performed better with the same coach but different assistants. played finals as many seasons as not. richo hasn't. his record at carlton and port do little to suggest he is a capable senior coach. there is no way to disassociate him from the condition we are in.

[rodgerfox]

The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team. all this noise about blaning someone under him is just that - noise. Can you imagine a coach like clarkson allowing one of his underlings to sabotage the team? Or 'hiding' away from the underling by leaving the box? Ridiculous.

Well two clubs obviously disagree. Richmond and Collingwood both 'blamed' assistants and coaching structure instead of the Head Coach. It's not necessarily just noise at all.

Ross Lyon blamed his assistants for their form. He blamed the fact that he gave them too much control.

richmond and collingwood had performed better with the same coach but different assistants. played finals as many seasons as not. richo hasn't. his record at carlton and port do little to suggest he is a capable senior coach. there is no way to disassociate him from the condition we are in.

?

Once again, I'm no Richardson fan, but...

Ratten's time at Carlton has retrospectively been lauded as very good. When Malthouse took over, they went downhill very, very fast. Many Carlton fans still rue his exit. And Port jumped from 14th to 8th in his season there didn't they?

[saynta]

I'm A Ratten fan.

[Moods]

The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team.

I know 20 years ago they were.

But I'm not so sure these days. And I think it's a very simplistic view and very short sighted.

Historically they've been responsible, and that's because they were also accountable for the whole coaching department. But is the modern head coach actually accountable for everything that happens in the coaching department? And as a result, should they be responsible? Is the answer is no to the former - then surely it's also no to the latter.

This sounds very much like the argument used by James Hird to try and exonerate himself from the injecting scandal.....

[rodgerfox]

The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team.

I know 20 years ago they were.

But I'm not so sure these days. And I think it's a very simplistic view and very short sighted.

Historically they've been responsible, and that's because they were also accountable for the whole coaching department. But is the modern head coach actually accountable for everything that happens in the coaching department? And as a result, should they be responsible? Is the answer is no to the former - then surely it's also no to the latter.

This sounds very much like the argument used by James Hird to try and exonerate himself from the injecting scandal.....

And it would have had...If not for the fact that we actually had facts and evidence that elaborated on his actual role at the club.

In Richardson's case, we don't.

I have no issue with him getting the arse - if he'd the actual problem. Otherwise it's just futile.

We, as fans have no idea where the problem actually lies.

[desertsaint]

The head coach is ultimately responsible for the performance of the team. all this noise about blaning someone under him is just that - noise. Can you imagine a coach like clarkson allowing one of his underlings to sabotage the team? Or 'hiding' away from the underling by leaving the box? Ridiculous.

Well two clubs obviously disagree. Richmond and Collingwood both 'blamed' assistants and coaching structure instead of the Head Coach. It's not necessarily just noise at all.

Ross Lyon blamed his assistants for their form. He blamed the fact that he gave them too much control.

richmond and collingwood had performed better with the same coach but different assistants. played finals as many seasons as not. richo hasn't. his record at carlton and port do little to suggest he is a capable senior coach. there is no way to disassociate him from the condition we are in.

?

Once again, I'm no Richardson fan, but...

Ratten's time at Carlton has retrospectively been lauded as very good. When Malthouse took over, they went downhill very, very fast. Many Carlton fans still rue his exit. And Port jumped from 14th to 8th in his season there didn't they?

not sure why ratten enters the conversation. his record ar carlton was good. first year in and took them to their first finals in years. made finals the next year as well, and fifth in his third. no comparison to richo. like others i think ratten was hard done by. i'd have him.
My mention of carlton was under richo as coaching director in 2011-12. Not a good time. Then at Port for under a year, so can hardly judge him on that - though he did have one game as senior coach. they lost of course.