Ross Lyon

[skeptic]

Ball is a rat. And it makes my guts turn seeing Robert Harvey at the skunks

He was mistreated and pushed out.

The team is bigger than the individual...he is a Rat.

Yep and the coach told him he didn't want him on the team. He was pushed out.

[citywest]

What a pathetic bunch of sour grape losers you are. He is our second best ever coach. People forget that with an ounce of luck (just one f****** ounce), he would be a dual premiership coach at the Saints. Seriously, you are all pathetic and I can now see why Bigfooty is destroying Sainsational.

[lintonstreet]

What a pathetic bunch of sour grape losers you are. He is our second best ever coach. People forget that with an ounce of luck (just one f****** ounce), he would be a dual premiership coach at the Saints. Seriously, you are all pathetic and I can now see why Bigfooty is destroying Sainsational.

That's your view and that's fine.

Mine is very different.

A coach is judged not solely on premierships - albeit that is their prime KPI.

Ross Lyon had a premiership list and that's why he almost won two premierships.

BUT don't forget he forced out a club captain in Luke Ball and alienated another club champion in Max H.

He also left a train-wreck - how can you excuse that? I can't. I know a number of players who plated under him and it might surprise you to know that he never ever spoke with about a third of the list.

Again you judge solely on premierships, I don't

[lintonstreet]

What a pathetic bunch of sour grape losers you are. He is our second best ever coach. People forget that with an ounce of luck (just one f****** ounce), he would be a dual premiership coach at the Saints. Seriously, you are all pathetic and I can now see why Bigfooty is destroying Sainsational.

That's your view and that's fine.

Mine is very different.

A coach is judged not solely on premierships - albeit that is their prime KPI.

Ross Lyon had a premiership list and that's why he almost won two premierships.

BUT don't forget he forced out a club captain in Luke Ball and alienated another club champion in Max H.

He also left a train-wreck - how can you excuse that? I can't. I know a number of players who plated under him and it might surprise you to know that he never ever spoke with about a third of the list.

Again you judge solely on premierships, I don't

[citywest]

He did not have a premiership list. If you remember correctly we were on the decline when GT was sacked.

[skeptic]

There seems to be some irony in being told i have sour grapes for RL leaving, when I'm sticking up for Luke Ball leaving

[desertsaint]

He did not have a premiership list. If you remember correctly we were on the decline when GT was sacked.

on the decline? we had roo, ball, hayes, mcguire, kosi, montagna, dal santo, fisher, milne, and goddard all yet to hit their peak. some smart recruiting and that's a premiership list. we didn't get the smart recruiting. lyon wanted to plug gaps, not develop a premiership team

[bigred]

Fkn Ross Lyon.


Really?

[Con Gorozidis]

He did not have a premiership list. If you remember correctly we were on the decline when GT was sacked.

Lyon recruited a list with 12 AA players on it. Most of which were about to hit their peak.
Lenny, Milne, Roo, Dal, Goddard, Fischer, Ball & Dempster all about hit 24-25.
It was ripe.

[Con Gorozidis]

Lyon has now coached 10 full seasons in the AFL. He is approaching John Northey and Eade as having coached the most games without a flag and he doesnt look even vaguely close.
Is this all part of some master plan? I dont think so. He cant build a list, he wears his players down and his obsession with the 2005 'bloods' game plan is pathological. Will not win a flag ever. No chance.

[samoht]

To judge a coach - you need to take the (relative) quality of the list into account.

re: Lyon --- despite missing Fyfe and having no credible plan B, I reckon Freo is not that far away from being the top side they were in 2015.

Their midfield really showed ours up in our last encounter this year and at one stage in the 3rd quarter, I think Freo had 20-30 more inside 50's. If it wasn't for a last quarter effort by Armo and Steven, and our forward line clicking in the last quarter, we were heading for a 40 point plus loss.
Freo just needs a reliable marking forward and a KP backman - their midfield is miles ahead of ours - to make Lyon and his much vaunted W/L ratio look good again (how's it looking this year?).

I reckon a good coach would have got more out of the Freo list this year - every team has injuries!
Even Essendon recorded their first win for the year before Freo.

I reckon our non-existent forward pressure under Lyon in 2010 - and the litany of recycled players that didn't perform under him - was the reason that we took our time in signing him up.

[lintonstreet]

He did not have a premiership list. If you remember correctly we were on the decline when GT was sacked.

You are kidding right!
We played a prelim final in 2006 and only lost because we had no ruckman.
The list was blossoming with the likes of Roo, lenny, Milney, dal, fish, BJ etc etc

Mark harvey handed him a similiar list at Freo and he's fcuked it up again.

[Linton Lodger]

Lyon has never ever developed a list.

He inherited two premiership lists and we know what happened to them.

He's a dictator who plays favorites and for those not in his inner sanctum, they are never able to play their footy with confidence and freedom.

Freo should be his last gig - BUT I know he has most of the media fooled so will no doubt pick up a 3rd club.

Our list wasn't a Premiership list and needed a lot of work when Lyon arrived. Players such as: Gehrig, Thompson, Peckett, Jones, Voss, Black, Powell and Harvey, had moved on or were in the twilight of their careers. Luke Ball was absolutely nobbled and continued to be nobbled until half way into his first season with Collingwood. On top of that, we had bugger all ruckmen to speak of on our list.

[lintonstreet]

let's agree to disagree.

[skeptic]

The thing is, the argument IS NOT that Lyon didn't improve the list. He made some changes, stopped the decline and turned it around. A lot of players blossomed.


What irritates me with this conversation though is that this isn't a Mighty Ducks story... yes the list was in decline/stagnated etc but the list still had Riewoldt, Kosi, Hayes, Milne, Goddard, Dal Santo, Ball, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert + whoever else I'm forgetting... it wasn't some rag tag ruffians from an impoverished area that he managed to turn it around with.

It was a minor rebuild.

His win/loss ratio was impressive because it wasn't bogged down the need to actually build and develop a list from scratch

[Con Gorozidis]

The thing is, the argument IS NOT that Lyon didn't improve the list. He made some changes, stopped the decline and turned it around. A lot of players blossomed.


What irritates me with this conversation though is that this isn't a Mighty Ducks story... yes the list was in decline/stagnated etc but the list still had Riewoldt, Kosi, Hayes, Milne, Goddard, Dal Santo, Ball, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert + whoever else I'm forgetting... it wasn't some rag tag ruffians from an impoverished area that he managed to turn it around with.

It was a minor rebuild.

His win/loss ratio was impressive because it wasn't bogged down the need to actually build and develop a list from scratch

Agree. Lyon wasnt terrible. Back from 2007-2009 he was almost cutting edge. But he wasnt some genius who got some list of hacks in to a GF. He had plenty of AA talent at his disposal who were at their prime. Add to that, guys like Gram and Baker were also very good players at their peaks. King and Gardi were also AA. Lyon wasnt some super-coach then. 6 years on he hasnt changed, adapted or evolved and wears his players and staff out. He is still trying to re-play the 05 Bloods GF game plan. He is absolutely done.

[Freebird]

What fkn decline - we were on the edge of premiership glory when lyon took over

don't feed the idiot

[White Winmar]

What a pathetic bunch of sour grape losers you are. He is our second best ever coach. People forget that with an ounce of luck (just one f****** ounce), he would be a dual premiership coach at the Saints. Seriously, you are all pathetic and I can now see why Bigfooty is destroying Sainsational.

Well, what are you doing still posting here? Off you go, there's a good boy.......

[The Fireman]

Ball is a rat. And it makes my guts turn seeing Robert Harvey at the skunks

He was mistreated and pushed out.

The team is bigger than the individual...he is a Rat.

Yep and the coach told him he didn't want him on the team. He was pushed out.

really ?

[SaintPav]

The thing is, the argument IS NOT that Lyon didn't improve the list. He made some changes, stopped the decline and turned it around. A lot of players blossomed.


What irritates me with this conversation though is that this isn't a Mighty Ducks story... yes the list was in decline/stagnated etc but the list still had Riewoldt, Kosi, Hayes, Milne, Goddard, Dal Santo, Ball, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert + whoever else I'm forgetting... it wasn't some rag tag ruffians from an impoverished area that he managed to turn it around with.

It was a minor rebuild.

His win/loss ratio was impressive because it wasn't bogged down the need to actually build and develop a list from scratch

Agree. Lyon wasnt terrible. Back from 2007-2009 he was almost cutting edge. But he wasnt some genius who got some list of hacks in to a GF. He had plenty of AA talent at his disposal who were at their prime. Add to that, guys like Gram and Baker were also very good players at their peaks. King and Gardi were also AA. Lyon wasnt some super-coach then. 6 years on he hasnt changed, adapted or evolved and wears his players and staff out. He is still trying to re-play the 05 Bloods GF game plan. He is absolutely done.

That's dishonest.

Swans weren't playing the press in 05. No one was.

Collapse back and press are two different things.

[st.byron]

The thing is, the argument IS NOT that Lyon didn't improve the list. He made some changes, stopped the decline and turned it around. A lot of players blossomed.


What irritates me with this conversation though is that this isn't a Mighty Ducks story... yes the list was in decline/stagnated etc but the list still had Riewoldt, Kosi, Hayes, Milne, Goddard, Dal Santo, Ball, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert + whoever else I'm forgetting... it wasn't some rag tag ruffians from an impoverished area that he managed to turn it around with.

It was a minor rebuild.

His win/loss ratio was impressive because it wasn't bogged down the need to actually build and develop a list from scratch

Agree. Lyon wasnt terrible. Back from 2007-2009 he was almost cutting edge. But he wasnt some genius who got some list of hacks in to a GF. He had plenty of AA talent at his disposal who were at their prime. Add to that, guys like Gram and Baker were also very good players at their peaks. King and Gardi were also AA. Lyon wasnt some super-coach then. 6 years on he hasnt changed, adapted or evolved and wears his players and staff out. He is still trying to re-play the 05 Bloods GF game plan. He is absolutely done.

That's dishonest.

Swans weren't playing the press in 05. No one was.

Collapse back and press are two different things.

My memory of that is that Lyon was the first to really perfect the press. I remember listening at work to a game vs Adelaide in 2009 and the commentators kept on marvelling at how hard it was to score against us. Not just flooding in defence but pressing up the ground in defence. Then Malthouse took it a step further at the Filth and won them a flag.
I watched Freo vs Adelaide on the weekend and whilst it's hard to really get the strategic picture from the TV, it was yet another example of a Lyon coached team struggling to score. The 7th time this year Freo have kicked 60 points or less. 4 times they've kicked less than 50.

[SaintPav]

The thing is, the argument IS NOT that Lyon didn't improve the list. He made some changes, stopped the decline and turned it around. A lot of players blossomed.


What irritates me with this conversation though is that this isn't a Mighty Ducks story... yes the list was in decline/stagnated etc but the list still had Riewoldt, Kosi, Hayes, Milne, Goddard, Dal Santo, Ball, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert + whoever else I'm forgetting... it wasn't some rag tag ruffians from an impoverished area that he managed to turn it around with.

It was a minor rebuild.

His win/loss ratio was impressive because it wasn't bogged down the need to actually build and develop a list from scratch

Agree. Lyon wasnt terrible. Back from 2007-2009 he was almost cutting edge. But he wasnt some genius who got some list of hacks in to a GF. He had plenty of AA talent at his disposal who were at their prime. Add to that, guys like Gram and Baker were also very good players at their peaks. King and Gardi were also AA. Lyon wasnt some super-coach then. 6 years on he hasnt changed, adapted or evolved and wears his players and staff out. He is still trying to re-play the 05 Bloods GF game plan. He is absolutely done.

That's dishonest.

Swans weren't playing the press in 05. No one was.

Collapse back and press are two different things.

My memory of that is that Lyon was the first to really perfect the press. I remember listening at work to a game vs Adelaide in 2009 and the commentators kept on marvelling at how hard it was to score against us. Not just flooding in defence but pressing up the ground in defence. Then Malthouse took it a step further at the Filth and won them a flag.
I watched Freo vs Adelaide on the weekend and whilst it's hard to really get the strategic picture from the TV, it was yet another example of a Lyon coached team struggling to score. The 7th time this year Freo have kicked 60 points or less. 4 times they've kicked less than 50.

The way some people bang on about Lyon! Some people can hold a grudge or what! Imagine if they were crossed in real life.

People do forget that at our peak in 2009 we scored heavily and we were impossible to score against. Our ability to lock down and restrict teams was unprecedented.

Anyway, we move on.

[Con Gorozidis]

We lost three out of our last 6 games in 2009.
Hardly 'impossible' to score against and hardly 'unprecedented'.
So much exaggeration and rose coloured glasses.

Last time I checked the actual record books stated we only had one flag. 1966.

[samoht]

People do forget that at our peak in 2009 we scored heavily and we were impossible to score against. Our ability to lock down and restrict teams was unprecedented.
Anyway, we move on.

Despite the lockdown ... the irony is -
RL's game plan didn't stop the opposition half backs from rebounding at will and running riot against us. Milburn, Enright, Shaw, Harbrow, Thomas, Harry O'Brien etc... played their best footy and were at their most damaging against us.

[SaintPav]

We lost three out of our last 6 games in 2009.
Hardly 'impossible' to score against and hardly 'unprecedented'.
So much exaggeration and rose coloured glasses.

Last time I checked the actual record books I saw we only had one flag. 1966.

Con, you are going on a rant and you are letting your personal grudge cloud your judgement.

Check the record books on teams scored against. We were the least scored team since the early 1960s.

Absolutely unprecedented for any St. Kilda team across any era, ever.

That's factual.