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Cairnsman wrote:I mean really!, how anyone can say the team was poorly chosen is really just trying to create conversation for conversation's sake. I mean really!, it's called a rebuild, not just a mild refurb or tweak, but a full blown, stripped down to the skeleton and start again rebuild, bit-by-bit. What bit of "total rebuild" don't people get when they lash out and blame a loss on the coach.
I thought it would have been pretty obvious that our 3 wins were neatly categorised in the "nice-to-have" basket, and the Bombers win was an even nicer one just because it was the Bombers but based on where the Bombers are at it wasn't that big a deal in hindsight. We are now where most thought we would be prior to round one.
Saying last nights game was a step backwards in any regard is just laughable IMO.
Spot on, Cairnsman!
Plus, neither Milera or Savage have a future at AFL level.
Yeah I reckon Milera is in the Sippo category, bruise free player. Sounds harsh but I can't see him in a finals series taking the big hits or dishing them out. He could be a Lewis Jetta maybe but I reckon a Lewis Jetta works in a team that is chock full of A graders.
That's what X factor is IMO, a flashy outside player that can put on a few shows per game ala Cyril Rioli and also probably what Ross Lyon was hoping Andrew Lovett would be. X factor players are great if you have a 21 other players that can carry the load when you fall short of a few flashy things in a game. We are way, way off needing an X factor player IMO.
bergholt wrote:What's this "x-factor" that Milera and Savage have? How do Schneider, Billings and Acres not have it?
After half-time we kicked 5.12 to their 5.5. Their goalkicking was good, ours was below standard. Hard to worry too much about team selection and tactics if we're going to miss easy ones.
I was meaning in more of a forward movement flow
we tended not to look that dangerous up forward, especially early.
I certainly didn't mena to suggest that Adam and Billings were to blame for this... just thought that Terry would have been a good addition too
That's a big back-down and tempering of the suggestion that the coach did poorly and made bad team selections and that the team took a big step backwards.
Um no its not. You clearly didn't u/s that particular point and I was clarifying it for you.
IMO he didn't coach particularly well on the night and with selections and we're not playing as well as we were a month ago. That's not to side that the coaching cost us the match but I do think they got it wrong on the night. Twist arguments much?
bergholt wrote:What's this "x-factor" that Milera and Savage have? How do Schneider, Billings and Acres not have it?
After half-time we kicked 5.12 to their 5.5. Their goalkicking was good, ours was below standard. Hard to worry too much about team selection and tactics if we're going to miss easy ones.
I was meaning in more of a forward movement flow
we tended not to look that dangerous up forward, especially early.
I certainly didn't mena to suggest that Adam and Billings were to blame for this... just thought that Terry would have been a good addition too
That's a big back-down and tempering of the suggestion that the coach did poorly and made bad team selections and that the team took a big step backwards.
Um no its not. You clearly didn't u/s that particular point and I was clarifying it for you.
IMO he didn't coach particularly well on the night and with selections and we're not playing as well as we were a month ago. That's not to side that the coaching cost us the match but I do think they got it wrong on the night. Twist arguments much?
Even though you are speaking in circles I understand that you think AR chose a poor team that took a big step backwards and that TM would have somehow added X factor. I disagree.
By the time we play finals... Milera will be about 33yo... He's already 26
He is a bit bruise free, that's his style, he's a clever HFF... Not everyone will be Hodge, Hayes or Selwood.
Siposs is not an aggressive player, yes... But he has courage in spades, which is why he's always performed ok as an undersized KPP... Even at VFL level ATM he plays CHF against bigger bodies.
What he doesn't do, which makes him appear softer... He doesn't get to enough contests or put on enough defensive pressure... This is mainly an aerobic fitness thing.
The contradiction was, that Cairns,.. You indicated that you can't see him in a big final, but then suggest teams good enough to play finals can carry an outside player?
Me, I think you need all sorts
From CJ's with little or no skill, but 100% commitment to the contest... To Milera, outrageous skill but less commitment
Rarely does a player of high talent, have desperation... For the simple fact that they haven't had to be desperate to dominate during their development,
I see this all the time when I am coaching young batsmen... I call it the M.Waugh/D.Martyin syndrome... Having too much natural ability.
Having both aspects... Talent and commitment
Often means elite
Teams can only carry a certain number of elite (Hayes/Riewoldt))
Then you need to have some committed soldiers (McQualter/Blake) and some highly skilled less committed contributors (Gram/Schnieder)
BigMart wrote:By the time we play finals... Milera will be about 33yo... He's already 26
He is a bit bruise free, that's his style, he's a clever HFF... Not everyone will be Hodge, Hayes or Selwood.
Siposs is not an aggressive player, yes... But he has courage in spades, which is why he's always performed ok as an undersized KPP... Even at VFL level ATM he plays CHF against bigger bodies.
What he doesn't do, which makes him appear softer... He doesn't get to enough contests or put on enough defensive pressure... This is mainly an aerobic fitness thing.
The contradiction was, that Cairns,.. You indicated that you can't see him in a big final, but then suggest teams good enough to play finals can carry an outside player?
Me, I think you need all sorts
From CJ's with little or no skill, but 100% commitment to the contest... To Milera, outrageous skill but less commitment
Rarely does a player of high talent, have desperation... For the simple fact that they haven't had to be desperate to dominate during their development,
I see this all the time when I am coaching young batsmen... I call it the M.Waugh/D.Martyin syndrome... Having too much natural ability.
Having both aspects... Talent and commitment
Often means elite
Teams can only carry a certain number of elite (Hayes/Riewoldt))
Then you need to have some committed soldiers (McQualter/Blake) and some highly skilled less committed contributors (Gram/Schnieder)
Fair point and Gram is a good example I reckon. Take 09 GF...when it mattered and it was his turn he went which was interesting considering he was maligned at times for being soft.
BringBackMadDog wrote:the biggest problem we have is not enough players with line breaking speed. In todays football when the entire side pushes back to defend, once you win possession you need to have players who can break quickly and get into space. Everytime we win possession we have to either handball in close or chip sideways till we get enough blokes ahead of the ball. The problem with this is we aren't skilful enough to hold possession for too long, invariably we turn it over and then get caught on the rebound. Happened about 5 or 6 times last night.
This. The hawks ran away from us like we were witches hats and the Bloos ran past us easily. Combined with lack of continuity in team selection we lack flow and cohesion in our ball movement. Combine that with a lack of pace and we are in for a long season.
Gilbert, Wright, Savage, Milera, all would add pace to the line-up, (in varying degrees) but injuries and/or form mean they aren't there. WIll take time, but Rome was not built in a day, nor will our next premiership team be built in a year.
I'm starting to think the next Premiership team won't be built in my life time, they are as far off now as they have ever been, Pelchen and Elshaug have a HUGE job ahead of them and they might not get it right.
Look at Brisbane, they have been trying to rebuild their team for 10 years and they still rely on the same key forward they were relying on in their threepeat years. Some clubs just can't do it, it's over 50 years since the Bulldogs made a Grand Final and they don't look like getting there any time soon either.
Looking forward to the game on Sunday, hope they make a few changes.
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
Cairnsman wrote:
Even though you are speaking in circles I understand that you think AR chose a poor team that took a big step backwards and that TM would have somehow added X factor. I disagree.
Mmm you actually don't understand though that's the thing. Whether i haven't explained it clearly enough or you've misunderstood you're disagreeing with ur own interpretation, which whilst you can't do much else in this scenario... Is still wrong. In the future i suggest you ask more questions.
Cairnsman wrote:
Even though you are speaking in circles I understand that you think AR chose a poor team that took a big step backwards and that TM would have somehow added X factor. I disagree.
Mmm you actually don't understand though that's the thing. Whether i haven't explained it clearly enough or you've misunderstood you're disagreeing with ur own interpretation, which whilst you can't do much else in this scenario... Is still wrong. In the future i suggest you ask more questions.
Ok I'll ask more questions...did you state the following:
Did you claim AR stuffed up the teams selections?
Did you claim the team took a big step backwards?
Can you explain why Milera can't get a game at senior level with a team that will probably be bottom 2 this year.
What would X factor look like in the forward line. Is that when midfielders choose to deliver the ball to someone that isn't being tripple teamed and is all on his own because someone else is being tripple teamed?
If the team lacked pace and polish who would you have selected to add said pace and polish other than Milera, Savage, Geary and Eli which are all of the names mentioned in your OP. Bearing in mind I am interested in why you think AR made poor team selections and also genuinely interested in which available players could have added said pace and polish other than the ones that weren't available or are are not AFL grade players.
