Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16888
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3580 times
- Been thanked: 2848 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:
3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season
I drew the opinion by the EOS that Scott was largely playing the kids because he didn't have the list that he needed to build.
Maybe that wasn't the case and it really was unplanned, poorly coached chaos
I don't know
3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season
I drew the opinion by the EOS that Scott was largely playing the kids because he didn't have the list that he needed to build.
Maybe that wasn't the case and it really was unplanned, poorly coached chaos
I don't know
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Got to be said WO that you had Watters' number from the get go. Was that because of his past dealings in WA footy?WinnersOnly wrote: He created this mess - what errs me is the club have to pay him out for next year after he had proven to be a less then competent Head Coach.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Why wasn't he allowed to do a radio interview anyway.
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
good fair comments...Bluthy wrote:Winners write history. Everyone seems to have jumped on the "Diss Scott Watters" bandwagon. And the info coming out is one person versus a club of people. But the truth as always with this stuff is somewhere in between. In retrospect perhaps this was always going to happen. The first coach after a successful period tends to be the sacrificial bunny. He has to start turning over the soil and all you see is piles of dirt and manure everywhere and nothing growing.
I don't think Scott got a lot of support in his role from the get go. The senior players were deeply hurting from just missing flags and indoctrinated in the Lyon mind set. At some level inside themselves they pined for a last crack at a flag and resented the rebuild and the change in footy style. Watters statement about being mediocre didn't help his cause. Coming from an assistant coach at Collingwood you could imagine the players thinking "Yeah and if the ball had bounced properly YOU would be mediocre and not have this job." I can't remember any real statements of support from the previous board. I think the board themselves were confused about the direction of the club - go again or rebuild - hence the delay with Lyon's contract. That sets a confusing environment to coach in. The fish rots at the head.
The assassination of Watters was one of the most synchronised I've seen in football. There were damaging emails being sent out by an insider that TOT talked about here. Plymptons venomous "joke" about Watters being sacked. Reporters were regularly briefed about internal workings that should not have been leaked. People worked with Mark Fine culminating in his completely out of line call for him to be sacked. On the back of a poor season the heat was immense. How can you possibly do your job in that environment?
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Why are most of the people bagging him done such a 180 from a month or so ago?
Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!
Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????
Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!
Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
More information has come to light BM.BigMart wrote:Why are most of the people bagging him done such a 180 from a month or so ago?
Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!
Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4539
- Joined: Thu 20 May 2010 11:49pm
- Has thanked: 120 times
- Been thanked: 307 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Because a couple of months ago the rumours were unsubstantiated.BigMart wrote:Why are most of the people bagging him done such a 180 from a month or so ago?
Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!
Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????
Said rumours have now been franked by the club by virtue of the dismissal.
By the way I for one was and still am in the undecided category in relation to Watters, but see no use in bagging the club for what is now already done.
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Bit like the Dwarfe rumours some refused to believe....
Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....
Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....
There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!
Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....
Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....
There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!
- Spinner
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8502
- Joined: Sat 02 Dec 2006 3:40pm
- Location: Victoria
- Has thanked: 185 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Mr Magic wrote:I don't think that 'the giving Saad a final game' was so much the problem.SainterK wrote: I'm clearly one of the only people that thought the sentiment in giving saad what could be his last game, was a nice gesture in a year where it wasn't going to impact wins or losses. He wasn't breaking any rules in playing, given he hasn't received his provisional suspension.
More, if the published reports are close to being accurate, that he went behind the backs of
the Admin
the Match Committee
The Coaching Staff
The Players
to do so.
That he felt the need to do this in such secrecy and keep everybody else in the organization in the dark about it says an awful lot to me about how he was thinking/operating.
Yep - Seems pretty clear up it was a process and a procedure thing.
Can only disregard the head, the CEO, assistants, selection committee and everyone else for so long.
Seems pretty clear he didn't have support from anyone at the club. I'm even surprised how much support we are getting from journalists - no ones come at us. Things not sounding good re his man management.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6656
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 12:24pm
- Location: Hotel Bastardos
- Has thanked: 197 times
- Been thanked: 166 times
- Contact:
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Say hi to kim duthie's twins for me.BigMart wrote:Bit like the Dwarfe rumours some refused to believe....
Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....
Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....
There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!
*Allegedly.
Bring back Lucky Burgers, and nobody gets hurt.
You can't un-fry things.
Last Post
Bring back Lucky Burgers, and nobody gets hurt.
You can't un-fry things.
Last Post
- Spinner
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8502
- Joined: Sat 02 Dec 2006 3:40pm
- Location: Victoria
- Has thanked: 185 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
BigMart wrote:Bit like the Dwarfe rumours some refused to believe....
Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....
Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....
There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!
Exactly - although sometime rumours can be compeletly made up.
Sometimes jungle drums beat and it's fine to remain on the fence but sense something is up.
Too often people on here need to be on side a or side b - with or against. And that it's the case because I'm not privy to all information I can't certainly be so adamant.
- Spinner
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8502
- Joined: Sat 02 Dec 2006 3:40pm
- Location: Victoria
- Has thanked: 185 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
To the OP - I don't think anyone is going over the top in dissing SW that wasn't already.
I think no one was really sure on him and you might be taking a lack of support as dissing him.
I think no one was really sure on him and you might be taking a lack of support as dissing him.
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
none of us know the real reasons and the club is keeping mum.....whiskers3614 wrote:Because a couple of months ago the rumours were unsubstantiated.BigMart wrote:Why are most of the people bagging him done such a 180 from a month or so ago?
Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!
Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????
Said rumours have now been franked by the club by virtue of the dismissal.
By the way I for one was and still am in the undecided category in relation to Watters, but see no use in bagging the club for what is now already done.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
- markp
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 15548
- Joined: Mon 26 Mar 2007 4:22pm
- Has thanked: 62 times
- Been thanked: 81 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
And if everyone here had been bagging watters out since these rumours began, then what?BigMart wrote:Bit like the Dwarfe rumours some refused to believe....
Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....
Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....
There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!
Would you be happy?
Would there have been a different outcome?
Jesus man it's just a footy fan forum.
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
I just think the narrative has too easily flipped over into Watters was a "f up who couldn't get on with anyone" and I suspect that doesn't do him justice. I understand some of that is getting behind the club and moving on and I feel that way a bit too. So much of this stuff should have been kept internal even if the situation was bad. Once it gets out it takes on a life of its own that makes it harder to fix.Spinner wrote:To the OP - I don't think anyone is going over the top in dissing SW that wasn't already.
I think no one was really sure on him and you might be taking a lack of support as dissing him.
I agree with Oldie that Scott heard he was to be sacked and in his infamous interview thought "Everyday I've opened the paper and seen leaked details from my own club destroying my rep and undermining me, time to return fire and make them look like idiots" - also probably would help with his payout/unfair dismissal claim. In a strange way his vindictiveness to go out like that shows why he may have struggled with the power dynamics at a big business macho footy club environment. He seemed to have a bit of a all or nothing approach. Beware of "nice" people who talk well, there is a dark side lurking. Coaches like Lyon and Clarkson come across as borderline autistic sometimes.
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Bluthy wrote: Coaches like Lyon and Clarkson come across as borderline autistic sometimes.
aint that the truth...but then again...so was einstein......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7282
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:31am
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 142 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Spot on MMMr Magic wrote:I don't think that 'the giving Saad a final game' was so much the problem.SainterK wrote: I'm clearly one of the only people that thought the sentiment in giving saad what could be his last game, was a nice gesture in a year where it wasn't going to impact wins or losses. He wasn't breaking any rules in playing, given he hasn't received his provisional suspension.
More, if the published reports are close to being accurate, that he went behind the backs of
the Admin
the Match Committee
The Coaching Staff
The Players
to do so.
That he felt the need to do this in such secrecy and keep everybody else in the organization in the dark about it says an awful lot to me about how he was thinking/operating.
saint4life
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5410
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 10:29am
- Has thanked: 33 times
- Been thanked: 47 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Eastern wrote:Perhaps it was justified. Every commentator that I have read and listened to since Friday (with the exception of Dermott Brereton) seem think that Watters copped his right whack. A lot has come out about how he conducted himself behind closed doors. There is too much negative and not enough positive for him to blame anyone other than himself !!
on sunday - rohan connelley blaming the saints on SEN and in the AGE talking about bad culture.
Dial a quote Thomas on friday saying negative things about the sacking.
- Eastern
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14357
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 1:46pm
- Location: 3132
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
What?BigMart wrote:Why wasn't he allowed to do a radio interview anyway.
Surely you jest.
They were about to sack him !!
NEW scarf signature (hopefully with correct spelling) will be here as soon as it arrives !!
![Image](http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o23/saintbrat/9c94369c.jpg)
![Image](http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o23/saintbrat/9c94369c.jpg)
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 25303
- Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
- Location: Trump Tower
- Has thanked: 142 times
- Been thanked: 284 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Agree. Maybe BM got his order of events mixed up.Eastern wrote:What?BigMart wrote:Why wasn't he allowed to do a radio interview anyway.
Surely you jest.
They were about to sack him !!
BM - would you like a timeline of events, because what you've said makes no sense in the slightest.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
skeptic wrote:I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:
3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season
all true unfortunately.......look..imho ledger can play...and will go on to have a good career with someone else......can't say the same about tdl, saad or milera.....quicker those three are gone the better......chances are with a new coach that will happen sooner than later......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5062
- Joined: Sun 27 Feb 2005 2:30am
- Has thanked: 15 times
- Been thanked: 125 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Hang on there a mo', Sting - you're suggesting a new coach will have the final say over the list. Is that consistent with the new "structure" spoken about by Summers?stinger wrote:skeptic wrote:I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:
3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season
all true unfortunately.......look..imho ledger can play...and will go on to have a good career with someone else......can't say the same about tdl, saad or milera.....quicker those three are gone the better......chances are with a new coach that will happen sooner than later......
Who brought those players to the club? I'm pretty sure you won't find the coach's signature on their contracts.
And, I'm not offering an opinion on the players named, or what their futures should be.
'I have no new illusions, and I have no old illusions' - Vladimir Putin, Geneva, June 2021
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
The OtherThommo wrote:Hang on there a mo', Sting - you're suggesting a new coach will have the final say over the list. Is that consistent with the new "structure" spoken about by Summers?stinger wrote:skeptic wrote:I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:
3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season
all true unfortunately.......look..imho ledger can play...and will go on to have a good career with someone else......can't say the same about tdl, saad or milera.....quicker those three are gone the better......chances are with a new coach that will happen sooner than later......
Who brought those players to the club? I'm pretty sure you won't find the coach's signature on their contracts.
And, I'm not offering an opinion on the players named, or what their futures should be.
i'm sure the coach has the major say in who gets picked in the team. though....obviously scotty did.....and the new coach will too.......doubt those three will be getting many games with saad maybe not even on the list.....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
Pelchen actres acts like a czar.
Pushed out of Hawthorn for exactly that,
Didn't see eye to eye with Clarkson, Lyon or Watters
Good time to let him go.
He will always try to make himself look extra good and create an aura of utmost importance .
Weak clubs better watch out.
Pushed out of Hawthorn for exactly that,
Didn't see eye to eye with Clarkson, Lyon or Watters
Good time to let him go.
He will always try to make himself look extra good and create an aura of utmost importance .
Weak clubs better watch out.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters
I agree an element of worry/history the rebut facts are we need his skills to build a list and he did play a big part doing that successfully at 2 clubs priorSt Igmata wrote:Pelchen actres acts like a czar.
Pushed out of Hawthorn for exactly that,
Didn't see eye to eye with Clarkson, Lyon or Watters
Good time to let him go.
He will always try to make himself look extra good and create an aura of utmost importance .
Weak clubs better watch out.
He though is as much on notice as anyone at the club - another "I can't work with Pelchen" and his career is over IMO
“Yeah….nah””