Watters' position is now untenable

[The OtherThommo]

Didn't Bomber Thompson escape the bullett at Geelong by the skin of his teeth after a similar review at the end of '06? I seem to recall the review outcomes included the clarification of the reporting lines, changes in support staff (e.g. they hired Balme) and the removal of some of Thompson's non-coaching responsibilities.

If we table this review, implement various recommendations on the Board's sign-off, tell all and sundry inside and outside what we've done and why, accept everyone's buy in (those who remain) and then continue to leak instability, we might as well fold up the tent now and go and do something else.

I would imagine Summers will read the riot act after the Board decides on what to do (based on the review), and tell all those involved if they don't like it, f*** off now.

We can't take another round of leaks, rumours and innuendo. We have to unite.

I've had enough of self interested pissant squawkers playing 1980's political games.

[SainterK]

The moment the players organised dwarfs at Mad Monday Watters position was untenable.
For those smart enough to realize who the dwarfs were representative of shows how the coach is viewed by the playing group.
We need to bite the bullet now and change things before 2014 becomes a waste of time.

Surely not...

[Dr Spaceman]

Clearly we're having a few problems at the moment, but I'm confident it's not as huge as some media and twitter heroes are painting it out to be. I'm sure it's not that unusual and I'm sure it will get sorted.

Having said that, a really huge story involving, say, ooh I don't know, perhaps, Essendon, would be pretty hand right about now (Funk Soul Brother )

[8856brother]

The moment the players organised dwarfs at Mad Monday Watters position was untenable.
For those smart enough to realize who the dwarfs were representative of shows how the coach is viewed by the playing group.
We need to bite the bullet now and change things before 2014 becomes a waste of time.

Surely not...

No. But good story.

[lloyd21]

Where is the problem ?

Listened to Colin Young (Scott Watters Manager) last night was talking about St.kilda and stating Scott was really bullish about where the club was going.
Clearly understood what club was doing in regards to admin side of things new president has been appointed looking to get the best CEO they can in the market place.
Then methodically get clear direction of all the admin stuff , membership, sponsors , liasing with football department during trade period and forthcoming darft.
Only when all of this is in place , will they sit down with Scott and discuss contract extension subject.
Sounded pretty clear to me on the direction of things down Stkilda way when compared to clubs like Brisbane are doing to me.

[The OtherThommo]

Clearly we're having a few problems at the moment, but I'm confident it's not as huge as some media and twitter heroes are painting it out to be. I'm sure it's not that unusual and I'm sure it will get sorted.

Having said that, a really huge story involving, say, ooh I don't know, perhaps, Essendon, would be pretty hand right about now (Funk Soul Brother )

I'm sure you're right, Doc, but we've got to bust the perception and the best way to do that is by those at the top assuming real control and genuinely leading overtly.

With Summers background in the building industry I'm hopeful he is tough enough to do what needs to be done (Step 1 - crack some heads).

[stinger]

Where is the problem ?

Listened to Colin Young (Scott Watters Manager) last night was talking about St.kilda and stating Scott was really bullish about where the club was going.
Clearly understood what club was doing in regards to admin side of things new president has been appointed looking to get the best CEO they can in the market place.
Then methodically get clear direction of all the admin stuff , membership, sponsors , liasing with football department during trade period and forthcoming darft.
Only when all of this is in place , will they sit down with Scott and discuss contract extension subject.
Sounded pretty clear to me on the direction of things down Stkilda way when compared to clubs like Brisbane are doing to me.

+1

[Cairnsman]

The moment the players organised dwarfs at Mad Monday Watters position was untenable.
For those smart enough to realize who the dwarfs were representative of shows how the coach is viewed by the playing group.
We need to bite the bullet now and change things before 2014 becomes a waste of time.

What absolute rot. There is no logic in that whatsoever. Your credibility just went out the window.

[Cairnsman]

Where is the problem ?

Listened to Colin Young (Scott Watters Manager) last night was talking about St.kilda and stating Scott was really bullish about where the club was going.
Clearly understood what club was doing in regards to admin side of things new president has been appointed looking to get the best CEO they can in the market place.
Then methodically get clear direction of all the admin stuff , membership, sponsors , liasing with football department during trade period and forthcoming darft.
Only when all of this is in place , will they sit down with Scott and discuss contract extension subject.
Sounded pretty clear to me on the direction of things down Stkilda way when compared to clubs like Brisbane are doing to me.

+1

+1

[Cairnsman]

Didn't Bomber Thompson escape the bullett at Geelong by the skin of his teeth after a similar review at the end of '06? I seem to recall the review outcomes included the clarification of the reporting lines, changes in support staff (e.g. they hired Balme) and the removal of some of Thompson's non-coaching responsibilities.

If we table this review, implement various recommendations on the Board's sign-off, tell all and sundry inside and outside what we've done and why, accept everyone's buy in (those who remain) and then continue to leak instability, we might as well fold up the tent now and go and do something else.

I would imagine Summers will read the riot act after the Board decides on what to do (based on the review), and tell all those involved if they don't like it, f*** off now.

We can't take another round of leaks, rumours and innuendo. We have to unite.

I've had enough of self interested pissant squawkers playing 1980's political games.

I share your frustration however the leak(s) will be plugged soon enough you would think.

[The OtherThommo]

Didn't Bomber Thompson escape the bullett at Geelong by the skin of his teeth after a similar review at the end of '06? I seem to recall the review outcomes included the clarification of the reporting lines, changes in support staff (e.g. they hired Balme) and the removal of some of Thompson's non-coaching responsibilities.

If we table this review, implement various recommendations on the Board's sign-off, tell all and sundry inside and outside what we've done and why, accept everyone's buy in (those who remain) and then continue to leak instability, we might as well fold up the tent now and go and do something else.

I would imagine Summers will read the riot act after the Board decides on what to do (based on the review), and tell all those involved if they don't like it, f*** off now.

We can't take another round of leaks, rumours and innuendo. We have to unite.

I've had enough of self interested pissant squawkers playing 1980's political games.

I share your frustration however the leak(s) will be plugged soon enough you would think.

Agree Cairnsman, but if not I know a couple of 'plumbers' who are happy to work dark.

[The OtherThommo]

Where is the problem ?

Listened to Colin Young (Scott Watters Manager) last night was talking about St.kilda and stating Scott was really bullish about where the club was going.
Clearly understood what club was doing in regards to admin side of things new president has been appointed looking to get the best CEO they can in the market place.
Then methodically get clear direction of all the admin stuff , membership, sponsors , liasing with football department during trade period and forthcoming darft.
Only when all of this is in place , will they sit down with Scott and discuss contract extension subject.
Sounded pretty clear to me on the direction of things down Stkilda way when compared to clubs like Brisbane are doing to me.

Mornin' Lloyd. I didn't hear Young but how strange he seems to have said pretty much what Summers said. Fancy that, people being on the same page, and that page making for reasonable and sensible reading.

Thanks for sharing, gloom lifting and rage passing.

[maverick]

The moment the players organised dwarfs at Mad Monday Watters position was untenable.
For those smart enough to realize who the dwarfs were representative of shows how the coach is viewed by the playing group.
We need to bite the bullet now and change things before 2014 becomes a waste of time.

Surely not...

No. But good story.

Great story...lol
If that's mildly true, then the tail is wagging the dog again in true St Kilda tradition.
If they don't like the coach, then all the more reason to keep him IMO.
You play for the club, jumper and supporters, the coach is your boss and it is up to each individual to make the best of their relationship..

[Austinnn]

Untenable my arse.

It's encouraging to see a few posters who aren't freaking out at the earth-shattering concept of the head coach reporting to a Director of Football. It's existed in pro sport for some time and makes total sense from a club perspective, particularly when the club's remit is to forge a strong identity and build continuity.

It's a model that is used successfully in some of the huge football (soccer) clubs in Europe, and it works on the premise that coaches/managers come and go, but each time they leave, the game plan isn't ripped up and re-written. Rather, the club searches for an apt replacement who is happy to work under this Director and play this particular tune.

Let's face it, what we need now is a positive identity and continuity. This concept moves us closer to both. It's not foolproof and could even be a disaster, but it's better than the old school way, which just doesn't work. The old school way is for players to get picked to play the style of a certain coach, the coach gets the bullet later and replaced by someone totally different, those players suddenly are redundant - a waste of a draft pick/trade.

In this more progressive construction, coaches, far from just being puppets for a regime, buy into a truly strong Way, and help develop and continue it. Rather than considering the clubs to which they move to be mere vessels into which they pour their managerial magic, they consider themselves enriched by being a success at a strong club, a career-building move for them from which they can choose to move on if they ever want to do things their own way. Players are brought in and shifted out on the more stable basis of being St Kilda-type players (imagine that idea being positive, rather than negative) This is something we should have done when Butterss and Thomas took over, and if Blight had been a hungry young coach and Thomas not a control freak maybe we would already be 13 years into the plan, still better late than never.

Of course the hoary old Legend Coaches - Sheedy, Roos, Malthouse, Lyon, etc - would never sully their egos by 'reporting to a bean counter' or some such trite 70s garbage, but hopefully many of the new school have a bit more humility. Scott strikes me as someone who is open-minded and I think that's good. If he's not into it, I'd prefer to let him try his luck somewhere else and we take a hungry up and comer who is happy to try to prove himself in this new paradigm. He's done well with the kids but not been so amazing that I'd do whatever it took to keep him at the club, whereas Pelchen so far has a better track record both with us and before and strikes me as a better 'player'.

But despite what it looks like to people stuck in the old school, I applaud this very professional move. Of course tools who don't know s*** about anything else outside AFL/VFL will think the world has gone mad, the same sort of thinking that spits bits of meat pie out in disbelief when they see Asian police officers or laughs derisively if they hear of a woman - a WOMAN mind you! - being at the reins of a Football Club, and they'll greet each hiccup with the smug understanding that things really were better before we got sidetracked by all this politically correct nonsense, just like all the happy folk parroting the "The Grown Ups Are Back In Charge" line when Tony Abbott's LNP became The Political Party The Majority Would Least Mind Governing Australia.

Still folks, the only thing that matters is that SW is strong enough to ignore all the Mark Fines and Tim Rosens and Jay Clarks and ambulance chasing gossip mongering screaming blue cockatoos baying for us this St Kilda FC to burn and be born again in whatever form they desire, "for the good of the club" #shambles #farce #loveme #listentome

If Scott buys in then we win. If he doesn't and we find a modern coach, we also win. If we supporters let ourselves be influenced by people who tell us that we are a joke club, even people who believe they support us, we lose. Don't fall for it.

[Austinnn]

I should point out that I would be very happy if SW stayed and played his part in building a dynasty with us. He would win and so would we. I am not indifferent to him being here or not. Just saying that we can't afford any more messiahs, as coaches players or even football directors. He is certainly not at the messiah stage yet anyway.

[70s sainter]

Loved Caroline's baited questions on aw last night. "We're you going to try to help rebuild the culture at stkilda"
"What is it like to go to a professional club?"
She was that desperate for Ben to bag the saints in some way it was almost comical .

[mullet]

Where is the problem ?

Listened to Colin Young (Scott Watters Manager) last night was talking about St.kilda and stating Scott was really bullish about where the club was going.
Clearly understood what club was doing in regards to admin side of things new president has been appointed looking to get the best CEO they can in the market place.
Then methodically get clear direction of all the admin stuff , membership, sponsors , liasing with football department during trade period and forthcoming darft.
Only when all of this is in place , will they sit down with Scott and discuss contract extension subject.
Sounded pretty clear to me on the direction of things down Stkilda way when compared to clubs like Brisbane are doing to me.

Mornin' Lloyd. I didn't hear Young but how strange he seems to have said pretty much what Summers said. Fancy that, people being on the same page, and that page making for reasonable and sensible reading.

Thanks for sharing, gloom lifting and rage passing.

How the hell does that sell papers !!!!!!!!

[Dr Spaceman]

The moment the players organised dwarfs at Mad Monday Watters position was untenable.
For those smart enough to realize who the dwarfs were representative of shows how the coach is viewed by the playing group.

Well Dal depicted the previous coach as someone who walks like a gay llama, which surely made RL's position untenable

[thejiggingsaint]

[quote="70s sainter"]Loved Caroline's baited questions on aw last night. "We're you going to try to help rebuild the culture at stkilda"
"What is it like to go to a professional club?"
She was that desperate for Ben to bag the saints in some way it was almost comical .[/quote]

"whats it like to go to a professional club?"......she could have asked the same question of Terry Wallace, Damian Hardwick, Ben Cousins, etc etc regarding Richmond! NOT!

[gringo]

I should point out that I would be very happy if SW stayed and played his part in building a dynasty with us. He would win and so would we. I am not indifferent to him being here or not. Just saying that we can't afford any more messiahs, as coaches players or even football directors. He is certainly not at the messiah stage yet anyway.

I would say the control they let Ross Lyon have has meant they won't be letting any senior coach have a free reign for some time. I think Netters probably put Scott's nose out of joint because they would have ben looking over his shoulder constantly making sure he didn't stuff up anything.

[jaxons]

The moment the players organised dwarfs at Mad Monday Watters position was untenable.
For those smart enough to realize who the dwarfs were representative of shows how the coach is viewed by the playing group.
We need to bite the bullet now and change things before 2014 becomes a waste of time.

What absolute rot. There is no logic in that whatsoever. Your credibility just went out the window.

Cairsnman, the difference is I know, and you don't.
Please don't question my credibility, if you only knew!
This is a fact and known by board and executive who work at the club.
What did Brendon Goddard call him on the Footy Show?
All the players refer to him internally as such.
You can choose not to accept this, I just tell you as it is.

[lefty]

I ask people... if Pelchan is so good, why did Hawthorn get rid of him?

I suspect were having the same problem as did Hawthorn...

[howlinwolf]

Untenable my arse.

It's encouraging to see a few posters who aren't freaking out at the earth-shattering concept of the head coach reporting to a Director of Football. It's existed in pro sport for some time and makes total sense from a club perspective, particularly when the club's remit is to forge a strong identity and build continuity.

It's a model that is used successfully in some of the huge football (soccer) clubs in Europe, and it works on the premise that coaches/managers come and go, but each time they leave, the game plan isn't ripped up and re-written. Rather, the club searches for an apt replacement who is happy to work under this Director and play this particular tune.

Let's face it, what we need now is a positive identity and continuity. This concept moves us closer to both. It's not foolproof and could even be a disaster, but it's better than the old school way, which just doesn't work. The old school way is for players to get picked to play the style of a certain coach, the coach gets the bullet later and replaced by someone totally different, those players suddenly are redundant - a waste of a draft pick/trade.

In this more progressive construction, coaches, far from just being puppets for a regime, buy into a truly strong Way, and help develop and continue it. Rather than considering the clubs to which they move to be mere vessels into which they pour their managerial magic, they consider themselves enriched by being a success at a strong club, a career-building move for them from which they can choose to move on if they ever want to do things their own way. Players are brought in and shifted out on the more stable basis of being St Kilda-type players (imagine that idea being positive, rather than negative) This is something we should have done when Butterss and Thomas took over, and if Blight had been a hungry young coach and Thomas not a control freak maybe we would already be 13 years into the plan, still better late than never......

Good post Autinn !
I couldn't agree more. I've seen it myself where I work where each separate manager's bonus is based purely on his KPIs and not so much the success of the whole company.
Human nature then dictates survival and you have people pushing in different directions for their own gain regardless of long term future viability.
There needs to be a universal goal so everyone is pulling in the right direction whether there is a new coach or not.

That's the only way the club/business can have success and that's what we're all after.

[karnaby]

Untenable my arse.
<snip>
If Scott buys in then we win. If he doesn't and we find a modern coach, we also win. If we supporters let ourselves be influenced by people who tell us that we are a joke club, even people who believe they support us, we lose. Don't fall for it.

Great post Austinnn! So true.

Sick of knee jerk reactions from supporters. Supporters are supposed to 'support', not to be a part of the problem. OUR reactions feed the media driven frenzy.

[Con Gorozidis]

If we get a decent intelligent ceo who knows how to get people working together we will be fine.
Nettlefold never struck me as being real bright

Things can turn around very quickly in a footy club.
Id say 99% of coaches have almost been sacked at some stage and Boards love discussing it.
Scott just needs suppprt. Not good if hes isolated .

This could all be a distant memory in two years if everyone pulls together for a common cause.
Cmon Saints !