To every one that craps on about Lyon...

[spert]

Clarkson is a premiership coach, Lyon isn't and that's probably how it will stay

[plugger66]

Clarkson is a premiership coach, Lyon isn't and that's probably how it will stay

It certainly may but if you looked just at the lists then Clarkson should win the flag and by a fair way.

[gringo]

Clarkson is a premiership coach, Lyon isn't and that's probably how it will stay

It certainly may but if you looked just at the lists then Clarkson should win the flag and by a fair way.

I'm not so sure on their lists. Hawks probably have a bit more of the 09 saints about them in the fact they have a very good core 5 or 6 players but Freo have very few weak links.

[twirlyhair]

Clarko absofarkinlutely is way better than Lyon. By a huuuuuuge margin.

Unbelievable thing to say about our couch that gave our club so much respect in the industry. You sound like an aggrieved lover...

[Cairnsman]

Clarko absofarkinlutely is way better than Lyon. By a huuuuuuge margin.

Unbelievable thing to say about our couch that gave our club so much respect in the industry. You sound like an aggrieved lover...

I am still a Lyon Lover...so difficult to be aggrieved...just Reckon Clarko is better than Lyon at the moment...might be different at the end of both their careers but I reckon Clarko would be good for our club in a few years time if SW doesn't become a premiership coach for us.

[gringo]

I hate Lyon but he's a good coach. The way he left us was like turning up to your pregnant wife's family christmas dinner and saying I'm rooting your sister and we are off to live in Perth. Made us look dumb by default.

[ctqs]

I could be wrong, but I reckon every other coach in the top four has more premierships from fewer appearances. Maybe Clarkson has the same amount of appearances.

[Cairnsman]

What part of my post is an attempt to re-write history?

Both coaches have had good lists to begin with, both have recruited lots of mature talent... Clarkson clearly having a lot more money to work with due to good salary cap management.

Both have superstars earnt by previous coaching/recruiting.

Both have played in a similar number of prelims, grand finals... Clarkson was lucky in 2008, Lyon was probably unlucky in 2009... There's not much between them.


What have I re-written cairnsman?

Clarkson was given the role at Hawthorn in 2005 to lead their re-building phase. That is a fact and to the best of my memories ability there aren't too many coaches that I can think of, other than Malthouse that have lead a team from the rebuild phase to a premiership since the draft system was introduced.

Lyon is a good coach, no doubt about it but until he wins a premiership he isn't in the same league as Clarko and Malthouse, and even then the argument will still be that he is only suited to lead lists that are reasonably developed and are in their premiership window. Not that that is a bad thing because I reckon in a way it's horses for courses and as I say since the introduction of the draft system there have been very few coaches that have been able to take a team from a rebuild to a flag...I might get corrected on that but I can't think of any others other than Clarko and Malthouse.

It's just a fact for now. It's like the SW argument, I think he is the right coach for where our list is at and time may prove that he doesn't have what it takes to lead an AFL team all the way to a flag from a rebuild.

[ctqs]

What part of my post is an attempt to re-write history?

Both coaches have had good lists to begin with, both have recruited lots of mature talent... Clarkson clearly having a lot more money to work with due to good salary cap management.

Both have superstars earnt by previous coaching/recruiting.

Both have played in a similar number of prelims, grand finals... Clarkson was lucky in 2008, Lyon was probably unlucky in 2009... There's not much between them.


What have I re-written cairnsman?

Clarkson was given the role at Hawthorn in 2005 to lead their re-building phase. That is a fact and to the best of my memories ability there aren't too many coaches that I can think of, other than Malthouse that have lead a team from the rebuild phase to a premiership since the draft system was introduced.

Lyon is a good coach, no doubt about it but until he wins a premiership he isn't in the same league as Clarko and Malthouse, and even then the argument will still be that he is only suited to lead lists that are reasonably developed and are in their premiership window. Not that that is a bad thing because I reckon in a way it's horses for courses and as I say since the introduction of the draft system there have been very few coaches that have been able to take a team from a rebuild to a flag...I might get corrected on that but I can't think of any others other than Clarko and Malthouse.

It's just a fact for now. It's like the SW argument, I think he is the right coach for where our list is at and time may prove that he doesn't have what it takes to lead an AFL team all the way to a flag from a rebuild.

Excellent point. Clarkson started almost from scratch, did the hard yards and copped flack for it, won a flag, and has kept it thereabouts for the main part since. Lyon has taken over two teams that needed a bit of fine tuning. I thought the bloke was a genius when he coached us, but on reflection, as good as we were, we were never allowed to play to our strenghts. We had much more attacking flair that he should've allowed to shine. We would've been a better balanced team, and we may have just won a flag. Yeah we were close a couple of times, but that's not to say we wouldn't have been even stronger had he tweaked things a bit.

[dragit]

What part of my post is an attempt to re-write history?

Both coaches have had good lists to begin with, both have recruited lots of mature talent... Clarkson clearly having a lot more money to work with due to good salary cap management.

Both have superstars earnt by previous coaching/recruiting.

Both have played in a similar number of prelims, grand finals... Clarkson was lucky in 2008, Lyon was probably unlucky in 2009... There's not much between them.


What have I re-written cairnsman?

Clarkson was given the role at Hawthorn in 2005 to lead their re-building phase. That is a fact and to the best of my memories ability there aren't too many coaches that I can think of, other than Malthouse that have lead a team from the rebuild phase to a premiership since the draft system was introduced.

Lyon is a good coach, no doubt about it but until he wins a premiership he isn't in the same league as Clarko and Malthouse, and even then the argument will still be that he is only suited to lead lists that are reasonably developed and are in their premiership window. Not that that is a bad thing because I reckon in a way it's horses for courses and as I say since the introduction of the draft system there have been very few coaches that have been able to take a team from a rebuild to a flag...I might get corrected on that but I can't think of any others other than Clarko and Malthouse.

It's just a fact for now. It's like the SW argument, I think he is the right coach for where our list is at and time may prove that he doesn't have what it takes to lead an AFL team all the way to a flag from a rebuild.

Not many coaches get 10 years at the job, so not many have the chance to go from rebuild to a flag.

Just a myth that Clarkson has built a premiership list from the ground up, before he had coached a single game, hodge, Lewis, Sewell, Mitchell, franklin & roughhead were already on their list, probably still their most important 5 or so players. Fact.

2008 GF score line if you have forgotten

Geelong Hawthorn
11.23 (89) 18.7 (115)

I call that a pretty lucky day out & our

2009
St Kilda Geelong
9.14 (68) 12.8 (80)

I call that unlucky, you may not...

That is the difference between one having a flag & not the other.

BTW if you are calling geelong the greatest side of all time, then Lyon has a much stronger record against them, probably 50/50 compared to clarkson's 10% win rate? How does that work if he is so brilliant?

[Wayne42]

If SW completely rebuilds StKildas list and gets them into the finals then he may end up being better than Lyon and Clarko.

If Watters does get them to the finals during his coaching reign what will that Fine idiot say then.

Why would we want Clarko, he's got a screw loose, that's the last thing we need at the Saints with the media ever ready to pounce on a Saints story.

[Cairnsman]

What part of my post is an attempt to re-write history?

Both coaches have had good lists to begin with, both have recruited lots of mature talent... Clarkson clearly having a lot more money to work with due to good salary cap management.

Both have superstars earnt by previous coaching/recruiting.

Both have played in a similar number of prelims, grand finals... Clarkson was lucky in 2008, Lyon was probably unlucky in 2009... There's not much between them.


What have I re-written cairnsman?

Clarkson was given the role at Hawthorn in 2005 to lead their re-building phase. That is a fact and to the best of my memories ability there aren't too many coaches that I can think of, other than Malthouse that have lead a team from the rebuild phase to a premiership since the draft system was introduced.

Lyon is a good coach, no doubt about it but until he wins a premiership he isn't in the same league as Clarko and Malthouse, and even then the argument will still be that he is only suited to lead lists that are reasonably developed and are in their premiership window. Not that that is a bad thing because I reckon in a way it's horses for courses and as I say since the introduction of the draft system there have been very few coaches that have been able to take a team from a rebuild to a flag...I might get corrected on that but I can't think of any others other than Clarko and Malthouse.

It's just a fact for now. It's like the SW argument, I think he is the right coach for where our list is at and time may prove that he doesn't have what it takes to lead an AFL team all the way to a flag from a rebuild.

Not many coaches get 10 years at the job, so not many have the chance to go from rebuild to a flag.

Just a myth that Clarkson has built a premiership list from the ground up, before he had coached a single game, hodge, Lewis, Sewell, Mitchell, franklin & roughhead were already on their list, probably still their most important 5 or so players. Fact.

2008 GF score line if you have forgotten

Geelong Hawthorn
11.23 (89) 18.7 (115)

I call that a pretty lucky day out & our

2009
St Kilda Geelong
9.14 (68) 12.8 (80)

I call that unlucky, you may not...

That is the difference between one having a flag & not the other.

BTW if you are calling geelong the greatest side of all time, then Lyon has a much stronger record against them, probably 50/50 compared to clarkson's 10% win rate? How does that work if he is so brilliant?

straws...clutching...BTW I reckon if you asked Joel Selwood or any other Geelong player that has played in all three of their flags since 2007 whether they would have have preferred to have the 2008 flag instead of the previous 11 victories against the Hawks prior to last nights loss...well you know the answer...it works because Clarko has a flag to his name so clearly he has what it takes to get a side to win a GF...Lyon will be a nothing coach until he wins a flag...maybe next week he will be a genius...but I reckon if he takes Freo into the GF next week and they lose then I reckon it places even more pressure on him and the argument will get stronger for those that claim his style doesn't stack up on the last day in September.

[dragit]

Straws ?

Hodge, Lewis, Sewell, Mitchell, franklin & roughhead were on the list before Clarkson coached a single game, what part of that fact dont you understand?

It would be akin to saying that Lyon built the list up with players like Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Montagna, Fisher & Ball.

They're both very good coaches, both walked onto teams with a handful of superstars... One beat geelong when they kicked 11.23, the other lost when his side kicked 9.14 (and a poster was called a goal)

Luck is their biggest difference at this stage.

I can't see Lyon being under any pressure if they lose a GF, 3 GF's in 5 years is a pretty amazing effort... Eventually he'll win one.

[samoht]

I can't see Lyon being under any pressure if they lose a GF, 3 GF's in 5 years is a pretty amazing effort... Eventually he'll win one.

If a coach is continually in charge of a strong team, year after year - he'll eventually win a flag, but that doesn't make the coach great.

We saw both sides of RL - We also saw RL the failing coach, when we were in rapid decline.
SW matched RL's last year in his first year as a coach, without Dawson and with an unsettled backline (with Fisher and Gwilt also injured for much of the year).

RL was failing... and we were not in a hurry to sign him up, and that's understandable.

[SaintPav]

I hate Lyon but he's a good coach. The way he left us was like turning up to your pregnant wife's family christmas dinner and saying I'm rooting your sister and we are off to live in Perth. Made us look dumb by default.

Whose sister? My sister or Ross'? I don't get it.

Give me a hint. Are they Tasmanian?

[dragit]

I can't see Lyon being under any pressure if they lose a GF, 3 GF's in 5 years is a pretty amazing effort... Eventually he'll win one.

If a coach is continually in charge of a strong team, year after year - he'll eventually win a flag, but that doesn't make the coach great.

We saw both sides of RL - We also saw RL the failing coach, when we were in rapid decline.
SW matched RL's last year in his first year as a coach, without Dawson and with an unsettled backline (with Fisher and Gwilt also injured for much of the year).

RL was failing... and we were not in a hurry to sign him up, and that's understandable.

Can't win with you… he's a s*** coach who's had the best list for the last 7 years and failed. Cool story.

I betters Watters will retire a happy man with the knowledge that he nearly made the finals in his first year where he won 6 games against teams higher than 15th & one against a finals side.

I don't even like Ross much btw, don't like the way his teams play to watch much at all… doesn't mean he isn't a very good coach.

[Wayne42]

Freo, way to go..

They look all right at the moment...

they must have a really good coach

[Teflon]

Ross chose to pick Eddy, Jones, McQualter....

He had Gwilt, Steven, Amitage, Jarryn Geary, Stanley, Lynch...... Maguire, Hudghton, Cousins (oops)

But yes, he coaches very well

Now go through those players - Hudgton/Gwilt injury doubts and Steven and co kids and seriously ask yourself how many if them would've got a game with hawks last night??

[SaintPav]

BM, no offense but stop talking sh!t.

Jack Steven had OP in 2010.

Armo injured his knee twice in 2010 which was widely reported on this site and missed a good chunk of the year. He would not have helped us against the rampaging Pies.

And Cousins...ffs. are you still banging on about that. f*** me. get over it.

Also, Freo are playing very well but the swans are a rabble and are allowing them to play that way.

[jonesy]

Most savage half of football in the history of the game

Must be able to deliver a message..

[Leo.J]

Hehe

[dragit]

18 scoring shots to 4 currently

Can't coach though, just the best list in the comp.

[Greg T]

Keep crapping on about him,his stocks have just gone thru the roof,
Can't say he hasn't got them playin an exciting brand of footy.
Even if they get thru and lose next week, what an amazing turn around from that club.
I always thought letting him go was a shocking mistake IMO .....

[SaintPav]

Keep crapping on about him,his stocks have just gone thru the roof,
Can't say he hasn't got them playin an exciting brand of footy.
Even if they get thru and lose next week, what an amazing turn around from that club.
I always thought letting him go was a shocking mistake IMO .....

We didn't let him go Greg T.

He got a $1million dollar singing on fee. The Saints could not compete with that.

The guy had debt. He needed a way out. But yeah, we let him go if you say so.

[SaintPav]

18 scoring shots to 4 currently

Can't coach though, just the best list in the comp.

4 prelims in 7 years. Can't coach.

BTW, I'm a crumpet person.