Port shows what can be done if....

[gringo]

Barring Wines and couple of others this is the same port team as last year that finished where??

Hinkley must be a genius. Quick sack Watters and get him straight away.

No they sold their CHB to Richmond and a early draft pick to north and J mac died so he's a super genius.

[Con Gorozidis]

I'll go out on a limb and say that we don't have any kids as good as Wines & Wingard... an 18 & 19 year old pulled their side over the line in an interstate final against a seasoned mature side.

Mate, with respect, that is the typical St.kilda supporter loser mentality... The woe is me mentality. Even the coach disagrees with you when he says that we have "accepted mediocrity for too long"...tell me that we don't have players, that with the right coaching and fitness levels can't reach the heights that Port has..

With respect the central tenet of the AFLs equalisation plan is the draft.
So why dont you write a letter to the AFL and tell them the draft is a waste of time.
Yes coaching and fitness counts obviously. But surelay a talent player + good training + coaching will be better than a team with fewer & less talented players. We recruited disgracefuly 2004-2010. We all have some hope in the youngsters we picked up in 2011 & 2012. But we need a lot more talented young players. We dont have enough now. You can talk like a 'winner' and say we already have enough good young players but you are kidding yourself and Im sure Ross Lyon and Ken Hinkley would think the same thing.

[twirlyhair]

We will be successful, but it takes time...

Sulking like a toddler doesn't make it happen any faster.

Essendon & Carlton fans demand success apparently... Hasn't helped them much over the last decade.

Your main point 'good coaching & fitness are important elements to success' I agree with, a couple of other things need to happen in conjunction... Like adding 5-6 super stars.

Sulking like a toddler would be to accept mediocrity. Something you are doing my friend

Sure thing champ, so if we get a good coach next year & improve fitness... there's no reason we shouldn't win the flag.

You seem to have a really good grasp on the game.

Yeah I do actually draggy man. Another season like the one we had this year and the coach is in serious trouble, as it should be.

[Johnny Member]

Really?

I though once we had even a remote semblance of a back line we didn't look too bad.

[Con Gorozidis]

Top 20 draft picks under 24 yo

Port Power - 7

Hamish Hartlett, Andrew Moore, John Butcher, Jasper Pittard, Ben Jacobs, Chad Wingard, Oli Wines.

Saints - 2

Tom Lee, Tom Hickey.

I'm not saying Draft picks are everything. They don't explain everything but they explain a few things. We probably need 5 good picks in the next 2 drafts and after that no excuses.

[bergholt]

And 5 years of top draft picks..... With good selection

2012 pick 7: Ollie Wines
2011 pick 6: Chad Wingard
2010 pick 16: Ben Jacobs
2009 pick 8: John Butcher
2009 pick 9: Andrew Moore
2009 pick 16: Jasper Pittard
2008 pick 4: Hamish Hartlett
2007 pick 16: Matthew Lobbe
2006 pick 5: Travis Boak

Seven years with only six picks in the top ten and three others in the top twenty. Not exactly GWS-style stockpiling, but you're right that they've had a very solid strike rate.

Incidentally, two of those high picks were thanks to trading Shaun Burgoyne, a mainstay of their premiership side, to Hawthorn. Parallels with Dal?

[Legendary]

People forget ... 2005-06 Port got some decent picks after their flag ... back to the GF in 2007 ... and then 2009-12 they were very ordinary, lots of picks again (although drafts were compromised).

But Port have effectively had very good draft picks for 6 out of the last 9 years. Whereas the Saints have only had that opportunity 2012 and now 2013. So we have a way to go.

[dragit]

You seem to have a really good grasp on the game.

Yeah I do actually draggy man. Another season like the one we had this year and the coach is in serious trouble, as it should be.

Standby for despair then mate, we're not flying up the ladder next year…

Watters is getting an extension after our worst season in 12 years, that should tell you where the list is at. He's safe even if we only win 3 games next year.

[Kickit]

Really?

I though once we had even a remote semblance of a back line we didn't look too bad.

THIS!

Probably our strongest back line, without having a proper full back, would be Fisher, Gilbert, Gwilt , Roberton, Dempster, Geary.
It didn't happen once. ( Maybe Dempster in for Roberton or Gwilt ).

[Kickit]

And 5 years of top draft picks..... With good selection

2012 pick 7: Ollie Wines
2011 pick 6: Chad Wingard
2010 pick 16: Ben Jacobs
2009 pick 8: John Butcher
2009 pick 9: Andrew Moore
2009 pick 16: Jasper Pittard
2008 pick 4: Hamish Hartlett
2007 pick 16: Matthew Lobbe
2006 pick 5: Travis Boak

Seven years with only six picks in the top ten and three others in the top twenty. Not exactly GWS-style stockpiling, but you're right that they've had a very solid strike rate.

Incidentally, two of those high picks were thanks to trading Shaun Burgoyne, a mainstay of their premiership side, to Hawthorn. Parallels with Dal?

They've done a good job of drafting talls for the long term. Players like Lobbe, Trengove, Butcher, Westhoff, Redden, are all looking like being pretty handy. By taking a long term approach they've totally avoided the crisis StKilda have, trying to find key talls with zero development time.

[matrix]

so really they got wines wingard and boak
because the others arent exactly TOP draft picks like everyone is harping on about.

but
they are SUPER fit
they can run it out easily
said to the port members at work they were a REAL good chance to beat the pies
but
how much legs will you have the week after against either freo or geelong
?

[Zed]

Over the next 3 drafts we should get the same low draft picks that Port enjoyed during the Primus years.

The question is will SW be able to instil enough belief in them like GT did to get them to climb the ladder after 3 years at the foot of the ladder or will he be unable to inspire the group like Primus.

[Con Gorozidis]

so really they got wines wingard and boak
because the others arent exactly TOP draft picks like everyone is harping on about.

but
they are SUPER fit
they can run it out easily
said to the port members at work they were a REAL good chance to beat the pies
but
how much legs will you have the week after against either freo or geelong
?

Hartlett, Lobbe and Pittard go alright. Dont worry about that and Moore is no slouch either.
Theyve done pretty well - 7 picks - 3 maybe 4 guns and 3 very solid citizens.

[matrix]

Yeah forgot about hartlett.
Good call

[gringo]

Good recruiting makes or breaks teams. If you can get a very good return on your picks and trades it is the difference between a Sydney/Geelong rebuild or a Melbourne. Trengove, Scully and Watts have put the Dees miles back if two had been guns quickly there might have been a different team now. Heaps left and they got desperate.

[plugger66]

Good recruiting makes or breaks teams. If you can get a very good return on your picks and trades it is the difference between a Sydney/Geelong rebuild or a Melbourne. Trengove, Scully and Watts have put the Dees miles back if two had been guns quickly there might have been a different team now. Heaps left and they got desperate.

All those 3 named went pretty much where everyone expected so im unsure if its development or everyone got it wrong. The Scully pick will end up being a very good pick.

[Kickit]

so really they got wines wingard and boak
because the others arent exactly TOP draft picks like everyone is harping on about.

but
they are SUPER fit
they can run it out easily
said to the port members at work they were a REAL good chance to beat the pies
but
how much legs will you have the week after against either freo or geelong
?

Hartlett, Lobbe and Pittard go alright. Dont worry about that and Moore is no slouch either.
Theyve done pretty well - 7 picks - 3 maybe 4 guns and 3 very solid citizens.

Its not like they drafted brilliantly over the years, but they've had a good steady flow, and like just about everyone else except StKilda grabbed a handy few players in 2008.
( Jesus Christ I wanted us to pick up Trengove with our first pick, the Tom Lynch pick. Max was coming up to retirement , we got Dawson but back then I newer really rated him or thought of him as the best option going forward ) .

[Kickit]

Good recruiting makes or breaks teams. If you can get a very good return on your picks and trades it is the difference between a Sydney/Geelong rebuild or a Melbourne. Trengove, Scully and Watts have put the Dees miles back if two had been guns quickly there might have been a different team now. Heaps left and they got desperate.

All those 3 named went pretty much where everyone expected so im unsure if its development or everyone got it wrong. The Scully pick will end up being a very good pick.

Ironically if the Saints had drafted according to the "official phantom" through the Lyon years we'd have been much better off.

[dragit]

What's the 'official phantom'?

[plugger66]

Good recruiting makes or breaks teams. If you can get a very good return on your picks and trades it is the difference between a Sydney/Geelong rebuild or a Melbourne. Trengove, Scully and Watts have put the Dees miles back if two had been guns quickly there might have been a different team now. Heaps left and they got desperate.

All those 3 named went pretty much where everyone expected so im unsure if its development or everyone got it wrong. The Scully pick will end up being a very good pick.

Ironically if the Saints had drafted according to the "official phantom" through the Lyon years we'd have been much better off.

Who is the offical phantom?

[Con Gorozidis]

2004-2010 we were a dead set disgrace in drafting/recruiting.

The fact people ignore this and focus on our coach really annoys me.