Chris Pelchen must go

[Con Gorozidis]

He inherited a shambles of a list . Needs 5 years to fix it. He's not even had two years yet.

Remember how bad the hawks were in 2003 ?

[saintsRrising]

Of all the AFL clubs, just one, the Saints, has the club coach as second in command. A quick click onto the Saints website will see it written in B&W. The Board, largely the current Board, got this hopelessly wrong. Other than a complete newbie, no self respecting coach would ever accept such a proposition.

.

Err, you do know that Neil Balme is General Manager Football at Geelong and was brought in above Bomber, against Bombers wishes at the time. Bomber later acknowledged that this was a good move and the right move. The Cats won their flags after the change.

Structure has not changed since Scott arrived. Many say we need to be more like Geelong.

I have not looked at what all the other clubs do.

[Dis Believer]

On the day that Chris Pelchen was appointed Head of Football at the Saints, Ross Lyon decided that his future lay elsewhere. Of all the AFL clubs, just one, the Saints, has the club coach as second in command. A quick click onto the Saints website will see it written in B&W. The Board, largely the current Board, got this hopelessly wrong. Other than a complete newbie, no self respecting coach would ever accept such a proposition.

Chris Pelchen made his "name" as recruiter for Hawthorn, but left Hawthorn in mysterious circumstances which have never been fully explained. There was no way that he was going to be viewed as the boss of the coach at Hawthorn, so maybe that was the reason. Today, Scott Watters reports to, and is answerable to, Chris Pelchen. At every other club, the coach is answerable to the Board and, therefore, the members.

Of course, there is a separate issue relating to the quality of the draft picks (2011,2012). Time will tell on those, although the current evidence is not good.

The Board must admit this organisational error, right it (I doubt Chris Pelchen would accept a demotion) and move on.

If you actually believe this, then you are thicker than I thought - and that's saying something!!

[Stillwaiting]

At least you have given him a couple of years. It is certainly his fault our stars are getting older. A person in his position should be able to stop the aging process. He also should not have selected 4 small forwards last night or not played a second ruckman. I also think that a person in his position should be able to improve the skills of players like CJ and Geary and if he did his job correctly he would have made better recruiting decisions for us from 2006 until 2010. yes time to go Chris.

Agree with this, we are where we are simply due to the poor recruiting from 2006 to 2011. This is partly due to finishing high on the ladder but also to Lyon wanting certain types of role players.
It will take at least 3 years of lower finishing and decent drafting to rectify it. I am not completely convinced that Pelchem and Watters are the right ppl to do the job but we have to give them a chance. Don't want to go back to the days of sacking coaches and unstable club.
I hope we continue up see improvement from Stanley Sipposs , Simpkin and those around that age as well as continued introduction of young players into the team.
It will be bearable if we see light at the end of the tunnel, just don't want it to be like it was on the 80's with no hope

[stinger]

as a rule i don't bag players..and am also reluctant to bag officials......pelchan isn't responsible for selecting the team....end of story afasic........

[SainterK]

I'm yet to be convinced on Chris.

Been consistent on that.

IMO he gets a lost of false credit in regards to our recruiters like Ameet Bains hard work.

I assume his area is more managing the cap, managing trades, contracts, that kind of thing?

So far I believe he let our KPP walk two years ago without replacing him yet, then spending club money in giving new contracts to Peake, Polo and Clarke who didn't play a handful of games between them.

He let Goddard leave this club, without even attempting to secure him with a 4 years with terms. Even though Milne, Blake, Lenny, Kosi will likely retire, and Roo will come out of his immense 5 year contract, and we had wriggle room.

He put a lot of club resources into securing Brown, who IMO has been underwhelming, and not convinced he'd have been a good fit.

Invited Beau Dowler to train a couple of years back, which is just a small example of him struggling to be wrong (he picked the guy with a low draft pick at Hawks)

Feel free to let me know if any of that is untrue, or I've laid unfair blame at his doorstep.

[saintsRrising]

I'm yet to be convinced on Chris.

It will be about 5 years in total before we know. He has had 2 trade/draft periods in total now, and one season.

However one thing I do know is that the Saints list was in may need of a radical overhaul, and Pelchen was brought in to mastermind the it.
whether he is the right man or not, time will tell.

However the Club was correct to take this radical step, as we sorely needed it to our drafting of kids having been so poor for over half a decade or more. I do not regret our GF years though...but we needed to improve how and why we get our players.

Been consistent on that.

IMO he gets a lost of false credit in regards to our recruiters like Ameet Bains hard work.

I assume his area is more managing the cap, managing trades, contracts, that kind of thing?

Chris is Head of Football..so many report to him including SW. He is steering the ship and not just there to do the paperwork. He is not just a football operations or player contract manger.

However from that I have read and heard him speak on, I would be amazed if he is not setting the strategic direction for the type of players we are getting as well as being the architect of the multi-player swap for pics strategy.

Ameet Bains General Manager - Player List & Legal Affairs is a lawyer, and so I think you will find that he will be doing the nitty gritty of the contracts.....and will not be just assessing future talent.


When the Club hired Pelchen they restructured the Football Department. Is a big reason why Lyon left IMO.

[dragit]

I'm yet to be convinced on Chris.

Been consistent on that.

IMO he gets a lost of false credit in regards to our recruiters like Ameet Bains hard work.

I assume his area is more managing the cap, managing trades, contracts, that kind of thing?

So far I believe he let our KPP walk two years ago without replacing him yet, then spending club money in giving new contracts to Peake, Polo and Clarke who didn't play a handful of games between them.

He let Goddard leave this club, without even attempting to secure him with a 4 years with terms. Even though Milne, Blake, Lenny, Kosi will likely retire, and Roo will come out of his immense 5 year contract, and we had wriggle room.

He put a lot of club resources into securing Brown, who IMO has been underwhelming, and not convinced he'd have been a good fit.

Invited Beau Dowler to train a couple of years back, which is just a small example of him struggling to be wrong (he picked the guy with a low draft pick at Hawks)

Feel free to let me know if any of that is untrue, or I've laid unfair blame at his doorstep.

You are contradicting yourself K…

So Baines does the recruiting, but you blame Pelchen for chasing Brown & Dowler?

You don't think Baines, Watters & Pelchen sat down together and made a plan around the Goddard situation? That's just Pelchen's fault?

[saintsRrising]

He let Goddard leave this club, without even attempting to secure him with a 4 years with terms. Even though Milne, Blake, Lenny, Kosi will likely retire, and Roo will come out of his immense 5 year contract, and we had wriggle room.

You miss the point. We did not pay more, so that we can chase good ( younger than BJ) players from other clubs.

Also do you think retaining BJ would have made any material difference this season? It would just have slowed down our rebuild, which so desperately need.

The difference between Pelchen and most StKilda fans is that he is looking at it without emotion, or attachment.

We live in hope that we can somehow win a miracle GF this year or next. Pelchen is taking a lot more of a pragmatic and clinical strategic view and is trying to position the Saints to again be a premiership contender.

But he is taking the tortoise approach rather than the hare.

[gringo]

I think the difference with our old structure when we had Beveridge doing all our recruiting is that there is an obvious plan in place and they are bringing in types. He is obviously looking to replace the small forward role and next year we are targeting the FB we missed and elite mids. We got our rucks and some tall forwards too.

He was successful at the Hawks because after winning a premiership by luck they realised they needed to get even better to win another. He organised the hard calls that lost guys like Kennedy- who has messy disposal and Mc Glynn who was prone to going missing at the Hawks. He built a strong list around a great core.

Kennett was apparently shitted by the fact that they lost Kennedy and obsessed over it then the split.

[remboy]

I was at the game and I didn't see Pelchen get a touch. Has to be dropped.

[BringBackMadDog]

..The coach at every club reports to the head of football...

Rubbish. Do a bit of research. Have a look at the organisational structure at each club and then come back and tell me which, apart from the Saints, have a structure where the coach is subservient to the Head of football.

Ummm how about Neil Balme for one, and that structure worked for the most successful club in the AFL in the past decade.

[SainterK]

I'm yet to be convinced on Chris.

Been consistent on that.

IMO he gets a lost of false credit in regards to our recruiters like Ameet Bains hard work.

I assume his area is more managing the cap, managing trades, contracts, that kind of thing?

So far I believe he let our KPP walk two years ago without replacing him yet, then spending club money in giving new contracts to Peake, Polo and Clarke who didn't play a handful of games between them.

He let Goddard leave this club, without even attempting to secure him with a 4 years with terms. Even though Milne, Blake, Lenny, Kosi will likely retire, and Roo will come out of his immense 5 year contract, and we had wriggle room.

He put a lot of club resources into securing Brown, who IMO has been underwhelming, and not convinced he'd have been a good fit.

Invited Beau Dowler to train a couple of years back, which is just a small example of him struggling to be wrong (he picked the guy with a low draft pick at Hawks)

Feel free to let me know if any of that is untrue, or I've laid unfair blame at his doorstep.

You are contradicting yourself K…

So Baines does the recruiting, but you blame Pelchen for chasing Brown & Dowler?

You don't think Baines, Watters & Pelchen sat down together and made a plan around the Goddard situation? That's just Pelchen's fault?

No, I said that all the eggs appeared to be put in the Brown basket, that is where I believe it becomes he's domain.

Dowler was invited to train personally by Chris.

[SainterK]

I'm yet to be convinced on Chris.

It will be about 5 years in total before we know. He has had 2 trade/draft periods in total now, and one season.

However one thing I do know is that the Saints list was in may need of a radical overhaul, and Pelchen was brought in to mastermind the it.
whether he is the right man or not, time will tell.

However the Club was correct to take this radical step, as we sorely needed it to our drafting of kids having been so poor for over half a decade or more. I do not regret our GF years though...but we needed to improve how and why we get our players.

Been consistent on that.

IMO he gets a lost of false credit in regards to our recruiters like Ameet Bains hard work.

I assume his area is more managing the cap, managing trades, contracts, that kind of thing?

Chris is Head of Football..so many report to him including SW. He is steering the ship and not just there to do the paperwork. He is not just a football operations or player contract manger.

However from that I have read and heard him speak on, I would be amazed if he is not setting the strategic direction for the type of players we are getting as well as being the architect of the multi-player swap for pics strategy.

Ameet Bains General Manager - Player List & Legal Affairs is a lawyer, and so I think you will find that he will be doing the nitty gritty of the contracts.....and will not be just assessing future talent.


When the Club hired Pelchen they restructured the Football Department. Is a big reason why Lyon left IMO.

Correct to take the step, not sure if the right appointment was made.

I am aware he is steering the ship, and that is what I'm judging him on. Haven't agreed with some of the waters he's decided to set sail down.

[gringo]

It was cleverer than bringing Dowler down as a rookie spot and got to watch and see with no actual commitment. Great way to use Sandy IMO.

[dragit]

Pretty sure Bains & Watters were sitting right next to Pelchen when they were tossing up picks to get Brown across, we really wouldn't have a clue if the picks were offered were unanimous or not. I actually get the feeling that it was actually Watters who was the dead keen to get Brown over… but who knows.

I don't see the problem with the head of football inviting a player (he knows) to train, was a better move than trading TDL.

I understand that you have an iffy feeling about Pelchen, and that's cool, sometimes they turn out to be right. I just don't think we know what happens behind the scenes. I agree with the Polo/Peake/Clarke kept over Dawson was a mistake, I'm sure Pelchen will make plenty more… no givens in recruiting. But I do like the recent maximsing of picks we have been enacting - Milera, Saad (free) 12 & 13 into 5-6 players, pretty smart usage IMO and something that we probably won't see again as it was mainly tied in with GWS & GCS reducing their list size and not wanting many picks.

[stinger]

I'm yet to be convinced on Chris.

Been consistent on that.

IMO he gets a lost of false credit in regards to our recruiters like Ameet Bains hard work.

I assume his area is more managing the cap, managing trades, contracts, that kind of thing?

So far I believe he let our KPP walk two years ago without replacing him yet, then spending club money in giving new contracts to Peake, Polo and Clarke who didn't play a handful of games between them.

He let Goddard leave this club, without even attempting to secure him with a 4 years with terms. Even though Milne, Blake, Lenny, Kosi will likely retire, and Roo will come out of his immense 5 year contract, and we had wriggle room.

He put a lot of club resources into securing Brown, who IMO has been underwhelming, and not convinced he'd have been a good fit.

Invited Beau Dowler to train a couple of years back, which is just a small example of him struggling to be wrong (he picked the guy with a low draft pick at Hawks)

Feel free to let me know if any of that is untrue, or I've laid unfair blame at his doorstep.

fair enough imho...but give him a couple more years...

[Con Gorozidis]

Agree with this, we are where we are simply due to the poor recruiting from 2006 to 2011. This is partly due to finishing high on the ladder but also to Lyon wanting certain types of role players.
It will take at least 3 years of lower finishing and decent drafting to rectify it.

+1 on this.

It will take 5 years to repair the damage of 06-11.
Pelchen has only had 18 months so far and to me he is on the right track. We have already avoided the huge CLIFF we were heading for. So hes already got a tick from me for that.

People have short memories. Hawks were absolutely shitehouse in 2003. It takes years to re-build a list.

[bergholt]

Ameet Bains General Manager - Player List & Legal Affairs is a lawyer, and so I think you will find that he will be doing the nitty gritty of the contracts.....and will not be just assessing future talent.

Mostly correct, though he has a voice in the recruitment meetings, more from a demographics and list structure point of view.

[saintsRrising]

But I do like the recent maximsing of picks we have been enacting - Milera, Saad (free) 12 & 13 into 5-6 players, pretty smart usage IMO and something that we probably won't see again as it was mainly tied in with GWS & GCS reducing their list size and not wanting many picks.

Indeed..plus magnified that later pics had little currency for them as they had so many low picks, that they had access to players that they did not really want....and Pelchen realised this to gain great value for us.

Truly win win deals with both parties happy, but where we gained value well above the odds.

[loris]

It is certainly his fault our stars are getting older. A person in his position should be able to stop the aging process.

Hey Plugs.............. do you think Pelcham, should recruit that Danks fellow to help out at the Saints? Some of those special spices he was allegedly injecting
the Bombers with were supposedly to have some anti-ageing properties in.

Anyway rumour tells me that Pelcham will leave the Saints in 'mysterious circumstances' and re surface just in time to help Tony Abbott, get a few more left footers into the libs next pre-selection

[perfectionist]

...Anyway rumour tells me that Pelcham will leave the Saints in 'mysterious circumstances' ...

Who's Pelcham?

[st.byron]

I blame Murdoch.

That's very unusual for you. Surely it must be Julia's fault.

[matrix]

actually when did he go to port and when did he go to hawks?

be nice to see what year he arrived and how long it took to get them up and about to a GF
and if he had a true hand in drafting what players

be nice to see

[White Winmar]

Gabby Jeans had one last request before he died. That was for"Chrissy, fix my saints". How could anyone resist that? Port Adelaide, 2004, Hawthorn, 2008. The man has the right track record. Patience grasshoppers. We are in good hands.