The under 25's XXV - The future ins't so frightening...

[Saintersss]

Seriously over half that side hasn't played over 5 games and probably half will be delisted in the next 3-4 years. Our young players do not even come close to comparing to other sides. However, this is to be expected, we have been up the top for a decade, so it's no surprise that we are going to struggle for a bit.

[tweedaletomanning]

It's actually VERY frightening.

Unless Watters is an uber genius , we'll be bottom six for at least 3 - 4 years from 2014 onwards I'm afraid.

[saintspremiers]

Seriously over half that side hasn't played over 5 games and probably half will be delisted in the next 3-4 years. Our young players do not even come close to comparing to other sides. However, this is to be expected, we have been up the top for a decade, so it's no surprise that we are going to struggle for a bit.

BS.

It's due to deplorable list management by Lyon.

Look at Geelong.

[plugger66]

Seriously over half that side hasn't played over 5 games and probably half will be delisted in the next 3-4 years. Our young players do not even come close to comparing to other sides. However, this is to be expected, we have been up the top for a decade, so it's no surprise that we are going to struggle for a bit.

BS.

It's due to deplorable list management by Lyon.

Look at Geelong.

Yep because he made a decision to try and win a flag even if it meant we struggled for a few years. When you have won one in 110 years it was worth the gamble especially when we got so close. Also poor drafting didnt help and I dont think you can blame RL for that what facts wont stop you.

[samoht]

RL's short-sighted recruiting was never worth the Gamble - pun intended !

Watters has his work cut out.. but at least our recruiting approach has improved, since RL... and we've emphasised the importance of player development. All good.

[lloyd21]

I totally disagree with the thought of Saints dropping away next couple of years.

If it was 10 years ago different matter, the club is operating the best it has ever done, with proper training base at seaford
aligning itself to the Sandbelt area of Melbourne and the Development academy , will ensure the club maintains it will be competitive going forward for a long time.The area's of recruiting and membership are the 2 areas the club has to work
really hard with & pretty confident in Pelchen /Elshaug in recruitment list management going forward.The only area
Stkilda need to get better at is growing the strong supporter base out of Mornington Peninsula & Corporate sponsorship.

[SainterK]

It's bleak, bleak I tell ya!!!

http://www.backpagelead.com.au/afl/7885 ... hard-times

[lloyd21]

Got to be kidding these guys who write this sort stuff are a wonder to behold

We are in decline because we lost Gram...McQualter...Dawson .(laughable)..all the top 9 sides will be there again

[bergholt]

all the top 9 sides will be there again

That's never been the case since the final eight began, so why should it happen next year?

[skeptic]

Yep because he made a decision to try and win a flag even if it meant we struggled for a few years. When you have won one in 110 years it was worth the gamble especially when we got so close. Also poor drafting didnt help and I dont think you can blame RL for that what facts wont stop you.

Yes because persevering with players that consistently produce a mediocre standard is mandatory and helpful to winning a flag.

And apparently you can't play a Jack Steven over an Andrew McQualter w/o it being labelled tanking

[gringo]

You never know how good the kids will be. Melbourne should be in the finals by now if it's just a matter of bottoming out for a few years. Pelchen has been employed because he rebuilt the hawks from a premiership winning team he changed over about 15 players to get back up with out dropping off. List managers are more important than the coach because they can be the key to our future fortunes. Watters just has to be amenable to playing the players he brings in. If Armo, Siposs and Steven can take the next step and a couple of Ledger, Ross, Markworth, Newnes, Lever, Curren, Winmar etc can come on we will be alright with still an ok core of others around them. We won't know for sure but there are some good signs there so far but it's just a matter of waiting.

[plugger66]

Yep because he made a decision to try and win a flag even if it meant we struggled for a few years. When you have won one in 110 years it was worth the gamble especially when we got so close. Also poor drafting didnt help and I dont think you can blame RL for that what facts wont stop you.

Yes because persevering with players that consistently produce a mediocre standard is mandatory and helpful to winning a flag.

And apparently you can't play a Jack Steven over an Andrew McQualter w/o it being labelled tanking

Lack of knowledge right there. Jack was injured. its that simple. You understand simple because if we had that many mediocre players how the hell did we make the GFR let alone get so close.

[joffaboy]

RL's short-sighted recruiting was never worth the Gamble - pun intended !

Are you actually telling us that Lyons gamble to win flags in 09 and 10 wasn't worth it?

Are you taking the piss???

[joffaboy]

Lack of knowledge right there. Jack was injured. its that simple. You understand simple because if we had that many mediocre players how the hell did we make the GFR let alone get so close.

Dont bother. it is mindless revisionist garbage.

Never mind we won 19 straight in 09 with all those medicore players. Never mind we won enough games in 10 even without Roo for three months to play in the Grand Final, apparently the team was full of medicore players.

Any logical examination of this will see it is total BS.

[The Redeemer]

Lack of knowledge right there. Jack was injured. its that simple. You understand simple because if we had that many mediocre players how the hell did we make the GFR let alone get so close.

Dont bother. it is mindless revisionist garbage.

Never mind we won 19 straight in 09 with all those medicore players. Never mind we won enough games in 10 even without Roo for three months to play in the Grand Final, apparently the team was full of medicore players.

Any logical examination of this will see it is total BS.

Although out future does not look too awesome it was worth the amazing ride.

[SainterK]

Which one are you talking about 09 or 10, or the replay?

At least be specific before you label people revisionists...

[dragit]

Which one are you talking about 09 or 10, or the replay?

At least be specific before you label people revisionists...

19 straight… that one.

[Scoop]

Clearly recognised the problem with the list and fixed it over the last 1.5 drafts.

I'm not sure it's "fixed".

Are there any stars in that side? I reckon that's a team full of ok to good to very good players (at best). To do really well, though, you need stars. Let's hope a couple of those guys end up in the top ten players in the league, otherwise we'll be 7th to 14th for a long time.

the only way to get stars, is to be on the bottom, or via free agency. Now that Goddard and Gram are gone, We might go hard for Free agency next year.

Indeed we will....

[borderbarry]

Including the players age, height, and weight, maybe the games played for each should have been shown. A different story may have emerged.

[bobmurray]

Lack of knowledge right there. Jack was injured. its that simple. You understand simple because if we had that many mediocre players how the hell did we make the GFR let alone get so close.

Dont bother. it is mindless revisionist garbage.

Never mind we won 19 straight in 09 with all those medicore players. Never mind we won enough games in 10 even without Roo for three months to play in the Grand Final, apparently the team was full of medicore players.

Any logical examination of this will see it is total BS.

We didn't win a flag so yes...ultimately, they were mediocre....just like the recruiting....

That ain't no BS

[plugger66]

Lack of knowledge right there. Jack was injured. its that simple. You understand simple because if we had that many mediocre players how the hell did we make the GFR let alone get so close.

Dont bother. it is mindless revisionist garbage.

Never mind we won 19 straight in 09 with all those medicore players. Never mind we won enough games in 10 even without Roo for three months to play in the Grand Final, apparently the team was full of medicore players.

Any logical examination of this will see it is total BS.

We didn't win a flag so yes...ultimately, they were mediocre....just like the recruiting....

That ain't no BS

No melboune, GWS and GC are mediocre. Coming second doesnt make mediocre. In hindsight RL failed. Didnt see to many saying that in 2009 when we had won 19 in a row or the day before the 2 GF's

[samoht]

RL's short-sighted recruiting was never worth the Gamble - pun intended !

Are you actually telling us that Lyons gamble to win flags in 09 and 10 wasn't worth it?

Are you taking the piss???

.. and how was Lyon's gamble ever going to improve our chances of a flag ?...- with Ryan Gamble, Brett Peake, Dean Polo, Adam Patterson and the injury prone Charlie Gardner plus the iffy Lovett ? ..
whilst all he had to do was concentrate on recruiting a quality player like Burgoyne, who the Hawks had the sense to home in on.
The point is RL didn't need to take a gamble/Gamble (and indeed should not have) with all these recycled and iffy players when Burgoyne was available out there.
Maybe this was the reason why the powers that be at St Kilda were not too fussed about re-signing RL and why they were keen on Pelchen - who made the right decision with Burgoyne.
RL's Gamble did not work and he Ballsed it up in the end .. both puns intended.
If we had Watters and Pelchen at the helm .. we may have got that elusive flag - but we had to have RL, didn't we?

[joffaboy]

and how was Lyon's gamble ever going to improve our chances of a flag ?...- with Ryan Gamble, Brett Peake, Dean Polo, Adam Patterson and the injury prone Charlie Gardner plus the iffy Lovett ? ..
whilst all he had to do was concentrate on recruiting a quality player like Burgoyne, who the Hawks had the sense to home in on.
The point is RL didn't need to take a gamble/Gamble (and indeed should not have) with all these recycled and iffy players when Burgoyne was available out there.
Maybe this was the reason why the powers that be at St Kilda were not too fussed about re-signing RL and why they were keen on Pelchen - who made the right decision with Burgoyne.
RL's Gamble did not work and he Ballsed it up in the end .. both puns intended.
If we had Watters and Pelchen at the helm .. we may have got that elusive flag - but we had to have RL, didn't we?

Oh my God, you weren't taking the piss.

Maybe we should have played Tommy Walsh in both GF's (even though he wasn't there in 2009).

Revisionist GARBAGE.

As P66 says, didn't see too many complaining about the "mediocre" Saints team after 19 straight or the day of the Grand Finals.

My goodness. You deal in delusions and hypotheticals and a great hindsight jockey like a number of people on this site.

What a laugh - the Saints were mediocre in 2009 and 2010 you reckon

BTW you hero Watters steared us to the grand position of 9th, the first time out of the eight since 2007 with a team you reckon is "less mediocre" than Lyons.

lets see if he can even get us into the eight before trying to compare him to a coach that got us to within touching distance of two flags. It was too bad his champions in Riewoldt, Milne, Schneider et al couldn't kick straight in 09 GF, but I suppose that was Lyons fault as well.

[Dis Believer]

As much as the method of Lyin's departure pissed me off, and as much as it sticks in my craw to agree with joffaboy, our players kicked us out of the 09 flag, simple. Any other version of events is delusional or drug induced.

[Dis Believer]

I also happen to think that we have some good (if raw) kids on board that will turn out to be good players. As fans (I won't use the term supporters to describe some on here) however we have been somewhat spoiled in recent times, in that we haven't had to wait for kids to mature. Well, now we have to wait. I also think that Pelchen happens to be an absolute gun in list management and I think his primary job is to minimise the turnaround time that we spend out of the eight. Watch the list he bilds over the next two to three preseasons. I think we have a bright future.