Apparently we have reduced the offer to BJ

[Saints43]

It's funny how history has a way of changing as time passes ... Luke ball BOG in the 2009 g/f ... Reckon Gram might have something to say bout that .. Ball was solid in the G/F not BOG !

Agree.

Apologies, should have written 'around BOG til half time'. Didn't go on with it from the bench.

[whiskers3614]

It's funny how history has a way of changing as time passes ... Luke ball BOG in the 2009 g/f ... Reckon Gram might have something to say bout that .. Ball was solid in the G/F not BOG !

Agree.

Apologies, should have written 'around BOG til half time'. Didn't go on with it from the bench.

Careful,
you will upset the "in Ross we trust" brigade with comments like that.

[mohannair]

Was reported on SEN today that St. Kilda has put a new offer to BJ & is less than that offered few weeks ago.
BJ was at the Fed. square & when approached was directed to speak to his Manager, who said that he or BJ has got nothing to add.

was not the way I heard it-
'they have been reporting a 'Final Offer' not reduced offer....

Saintbrat, you are correct, intially thats what Tony Schibeci said but then Daniel Harford added that apparently it is a reduced offer (compared to an earlier offer) was told between 2:10 & 2:15pm today.

[Teflon]

so is it reduced?>

extended therefore reduced?

or just final?

[Dr Spaceman]

so is it reduced?>

extended therefore reduced?

or just final?

I'm only interested in whether it's gonna be signed.

[mohannair]

Also if you recollect Luke Balls offer was also reduced towards latter part of the negotiations. If I am not mistaken this was after the trade period & then eventually he opted for the draft.

Let him go & we should be able to get a good replacement and will also have a new Captain (if Roo steps down)

[Teflon]

Also if you recollect Luke Balls offer was also reduced towards latter part of the negotiations. If I am not mistaken this was after the trade period & then eventually he opted for the draft.

Let him go & we should be able to get a good replacement and will also have a new Captain (if Roo steps down)

so if this is a reduced offer is this the clubs way of making sure he departs?

if so, gee......its quite harsh.....hes a life member.....perhaps IF they wanted him gone they could have simply offered him 400k to start with - other than making sure he moves on i see no benefit in reducing his offer at this late stage thats IF this is true.

[maverick]

Also if you recollect Luke Balls offer was also reduced towards latter part of the negotiations. If I am not mistaken this was after the trade period & then eventually he opted for the draft.

Let him go & we should be able to get a good replacement and will also have a new Captain (if Roo steps down)

so if this is a reduced offer is this the clubs way of making sure he departs?

if so, gee......its quite harsh.....hes a life member.....perhaps IF they wanted him gone they could have simply offered him 400k to start with - other than making sure he moves on i see no benefit in reducing his offer at this late stage thats IF this is true.

Agree, surely it can't be true.

[clarky449]

Careful,
you will upset the "in Ross we trust" brigade with comments like that.

The "in Ross we trust" Brigade are usually made up of football supporters who can distinguish between football and reality.

[whiskers3614]

Careful,
you will upset the "in Ross we trust" brigade with comments like that.

The "in Ross we trust" Brigade are usually made up of football supporters who can distinguish between football and reality.

that sounds really profound
now give it to us in English

[Dr Spaceman]

Also if you recollect Luke Balls offer was also reduced towards latter part of the negotiations. If I am not mistaken this was after the trade period & then eventually he opted for the draft.

Let him go & we should be able to get a good replacement and will also have a new Captain (if Roo steps down)

so if this is a reduced offer is this the clubs way of making sure he departs?

if so, gee......its quite harsh.....hes a life member.....perhaps IF they wanted him gone they could have simply offered him 400k to start with - other than making sure he moves on i see no benefit in reducing his offer at this late stage thats IF this is true.

Agree, surely it can't be true.

Agree, doubt it's true.

If reports are correct:

A) Our offer was only made a couple of weeks ago, after the season had ended and after his form was known.

B) It was already short of what is apparently being offered, both in terms of dollars and duration.

If that second point is correct, and if we suddenly decided we didn't want to keep him, then presumably we don't need to do anything. We just have to wait for the FA period to begin and then decline to match any offers.

[clarky449]

Careful,
you will upset the "in Ross we trust" brigade with comments like that.

The "in Ross we trust" Brigade are usually made up of football supporters who can distinguish between football and reality.

that sounds really profound
now give it to us in English

Simple terms, you must be a Football dimwit.

[ralphsmith]

Why do we all assume it's BJ that is making the process difficult?
Given Ball received $600K for virtually nothing back in the mid naughties, why is $650K unreasonable?

Just because we overpaid Ball doesnt mean we should overpay BJ. What has BJ done in the last 2 years to make him our highest paid player and it seems by a clear way?

In truth, Goddard has not done much since his great mark in the grand final.

He was absolutely average this year and disgustingly undisciplined.

[Terrance80]

Agree with saints43 with the fact that Bally was one of our bravest but I don't think you should hold his departure against the club...The problem with Ball from how I saw it was that he played some really good footy in 04,05 and pretty good in 06.. He has probably signed a three year deal at that point for seasons 07,08,09, he would have been on good money considering he won a best and fairest and captained the club through GT era, he was a Xavier boy and GT was a massive fan of his character , im guessing at least 500k a year for the three....That is really good money for an elite mid of competition...and during those seasons he had his issues with his body(groin soreness) and didn't quite seem to be the same player.His stats over this period would back this up, I know stats aren't everything but compared to his b+f year in 05 he was a fair bit down... It all culminated in 09 when Bally was a bit out of favour , had his body issues and again his form probably didn't warrant his elite mid contract...I think from there two things have probably happened.. His manager has gone to club to talk about a new contract and where Bally fit in ... At this point I guess the club have offered a deal reflecting Luke's output for the previous three seasons.. I'm guessing the club didn't believe he had earnt another deal around the 550k a year mark. I think they would have offered about 400k ...which in my opinion was about where he was at considering Montagna was AA Hayes was AA Dal was playing really good footy to... We had Fisher, Roo, BJ etc... All of these players had been more consistent than ball over the 3 previous seasons....I think the ball camp would have been disappointed with the offer ... Luke's a proud guy from a proud family and I think he thought the writing was on the wall...The coach has ridden me hard all year, they have offered me less than what I could get elsewhere maybe I'd be better suited at another club that needs a good solid inside mid....Enter Eddie and collingwood with a three year deal around 550k a year and prob a little channel9 contract to go with it....I don't blame ball for going one bit but I also don't blame the club ... It would have been great to have ball still playing at saints but at what cost...? I don't think saints could have payed him what collingwood did because it wouldn't have been fair to the rest of the playing list ...

[whiskers3614]

Agree with saints43 with the fact that Bally was one of our bravest but I don't think you should hold his departure against the club...The problem with Ball from how I saw it was that he played some really good footy in 04,05 and pretty good in 06.. He has probably signed a three year deal at that point for seasons 07,08,09, he would have been on good money considering he won a best and fairest and captained the club through GT era, he was a Xavier boy and GT was a massive fan of his character , im guessing at least 500k a year for the three....That is really good money for an elite mid of competition...and during those seasons he had his issues with his body(groin soreness) and didn't quite seem to be the same player.His stats over this period would back this up, I know stats aren't everything but compared to his b+f year in 05 he was a fair bit down... It all culminated in 09 when Bally was a bit out of favour , had his body issues and again his form probably didn't warrant his elite mid contract...I think from there two things have probably happened.. His manager has gone to club to talk about a new contract and where Bally fit in ... At this point I guess the club have offered a deal reflecting Luke's output for the previous three seasons.. I'm guessing the club didn't believe he had earnt another deal around the 550k a year mark. I think they would have offered about 400k ...which in my opinion was about where he was at considering Montagna was AA Hayes was AA Dal was playing really good footy to... We had Fisher, Roo, BJ etc... All of these players had been more consistent than ball over the 3 previous seasons....I think the ball camp would have been disappointed with the offer ... Luke's a proud guy from a proud family and I think he thought the writing was on the wall...The coach has ridden me hard all year, they have offered me less than what I could get elsewhere maybe I'd be better suited at another club that needs a good solid inside mid....Enter Eddie and collingwood with a three year deal around 550k a year and prob a little channel9 contract to go with it....I don't blame ball for going one bit but I also don't blame the club ... It would have been great to have ball still playing at saints but at what cost...? I don't think saints could have payed him what collingwood did because it wouldn't have been fair to the rest of the playing list ...

Good Summary, only one thing not addressed his mis-use by Lyon in second half of GF, I think that was more important than the cash

[The Redeemer]

Where does he get the idea that he is worth enough to be the highest paid player at St Kilda?

I love BJ however I do not quite see the rationale.

That being said there is no point in bringing up Riewoldt's 500k pay cut this year as 3.5 million into 4 years becomes 875k annually...not bad..not bad at all.

[whiskers3614]

Where does he get the idea that he is worth enough to be the highest paid player at St Kilda?

I love BJ however I do not quite see the rationale.

That being said there is no point in bringing up Riewoldt's 500k pay cut this year as 3.5 million into 4 years becomes 875k annually...not bad..not bad at all.

The beauty of free agency is that the market ultimately determines your worth
not the player
not the media
and certainly not what other team members get

[Dr Spaceman]

Aside from what people think he's worth, we need to remember he's our first FA but he certainly won't be our last.

What we do now will set the tone for what we do in the future.

If we bend over now what do in years to come when a player, perhaps more elite and more consistent, reaches the FA stage?

Offer him what he's worth and what we can afford. And then let nature take it's course.

[rexy]

Think some people's idea of average is pretty high! Bj didn't have "his" best year but is a very good footballer! Definitely best player on our list and should be highest paid IMO. Still should only pay what we think he is worth though!

[saintbrat]

Aside from what people think he's worth, we need to remember he's our first FA but he certainly won't be our last.

What we do now will set the tone for what we do in the future.

If we bend over now what do in years to come when a player, perhaps more elite and more consistent, reaches the FA stage?

Offer him what he's worth and what we can afford. And then let nature take it's course.

stages of free agency..

Player opts to ' have a look'
Player may before or after 'opting to have alook' be offered by his current club
Player looks at or wiats for other offers..... assuming they come
RESTRICTED player then says to current club- this is what I am offered.
Player's current club says 'yes we will match'
OR yes we can offer this + this but not that...

Player says Ok I'm going to accept other offer

OR Player says- yes they have offered more BUT I wish to stay here..

many neglect to mention the last part of the free agency market.

and comparison to the negotiations with Luke Ball are not paticularly relevant as it was a differant admin- as in contract admin- team at the time..

[Terrance80]

It's certainly going to be interesting to see how BJ plays out... It's been a drawn out process ... Ultimately most players who play for a team that has challenged for a flag or is around the mark is going to be worth more at another club but I guess it depends on what drives him.. Is it money? Is it team success? Is it being part of one club and trying to do something with players you've been through a lot with? I guess soon enough we'll find out....

[MCG-Unit]

Given Ball received $600K for virtually nothing back in the mid naughties, why is $650K unreasonable?

It was a back-ended contract. He didn't receive $600K every year.

Luke Ball's mid naughties where he did 'virtually nothing'
2nd B&F in 2004.
1st B&F in 2005.
Captain 2006.

And on to 2009 where he was best afield in a GF but 'couldn't spread' so the '600K' contract was widely publicised (lesser payments in previous years ignored) so that some dumb **** could say that he did 'virtually nothing' for St Kilda.

One of our bravest ever players.

Yep and it's been posted on here 50 times - but people say what they want to suit their side of the debate. Rewrite history. Really p!sses me off folks saying Ball gave nothing.

IF Ball did get that amount reported, it was heavily back-ended.

[Dr Spaceman]

stages of free agency..

Player opts to ' have a look'
Player may before or after 'opting to have alook' be offered by his current club
Player looks at or wiats for other offers..... assuming they come
RESTRICTED player then says to current club- this is what I am offered.
Player's current club says 'yes we will match'
OR yes we can offer this + this but not that...

Player says Ok I'm going to accept other offer

OR Player says- yes they have offered more BUT I wish to stay here..

many neglect to mention the last part of the free agency market.

Which is something I raised more than a month ago

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77588&start=25

Okay, someone with a better understanding of Free Agency may be able to explain this to me.

I get the bit about the Saints being able to match offers etc. But let's say we go through this process and at the end of it there are 3 offers. Let's say:

GWS -$ 800,000 pa
Freo - $ 700,000 pa
StKFC - $ 600,000 pa

Would Goddard be able to reject the highest offer as he doesn't want to go to play for a team that is going to be uncompetitive for the next few years? Would he then be able to take Freo's offer? 

And if he didn't want to go to Sydney and then thought "can't be bothered going to Freo for an extra $100,000", could he simply accept the Saints low offer? I'm assuming he can do all of this because it's surely been set up to help the player get what he wants.

Bottom line of the question - does failing to match an offer automatically mean we'll lose the player?

[plugger66]

Think some people's idea of average is pretty high! Bj didn't have "his" best year but is a very good footballer! Definitely best player on our list and should be highest paid IMO. Still should only pay what we think he is worth though!

How do come to the conclusion he is definitely the best player on the list. I cant see how he is the top 3 or 4.

[SainterK]

Also if you recollect Luke Balls offer was also reduced towards latter part of the negotiations. If I am not mistaken this was after the trade period & then eventually he opted for the draft.

Let him go & we should be able to get a good replacement and will also have a new Captain (if Roo steps down)

so if this is a reduced offer is this the clubs way of making sure he departs?

if so, gee......its quite harsh.....hes a life member.....perhaps IF they wanted him gone they could have simply offered him 400k to start with - other than making sure he moves on i see no benefit in reducing his offer at this late stage thats IF this is true.

I dunno....I find it believable, people are pretty confident Ross had his contract altered in the final stages.

I don't really care even if the alterations are somehow justified, it just shouldn't happen that they offer something they can't back up in the first place....if true.