So Ben was killed again...

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St Ick
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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196744Post St Ick »

Legendary wrote:Ben McEvoy had the most hitouts last year of any St Kilda ruckman since Peter Everitt.

He also averaged more hitouts per game than Michael Gardiner ever did in any period of time with the Saints.

McEvoy's efforts in 2011 included 37 hitouts against Brad Ottens and 29 against Darren Jolly.


Instead of crucifying a bloke based on 1 half of a pre-season match, perhaps you should look at his outstanding form in 2011 when he carried the ruck load solo for the entire year as a 21-year old.
Well said. Just remember he is younger than Zac Smith. Still just a kid in ruck terms...
Vs Eagles he was up against the best combo in the AFL. Was obviously struggling after that hit, where was Roo's awareness/talk? He basically went at it alone in that heat against two guns used to those conditions. We also played an intraclub last week in soggy, heavy conditions. While that wasnt the real stuff it still would have affected them.

There is no point highlighting Stanley and comparing both. While he was encouraging, he got those hitouts when Cox was on ice and Niknat was going half assed with the game already won. Also as another poster said, that 3m rule is stupid and wont be there in the season proper.

So the sky is not falling, Ben will be fine so long as Kos n Rhys can give him adequate support.


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The Redeemer
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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196750Post The Redeemer »

plugger66 wrote:
SainterK wrote:So we've established that Ben was killed again, this time by Roo?

No we have established that some people use one off games to finish careers and footy sides and these games are only practice.
You can do better than that. He gets beaten week-in week-out against everyone and his age and experience is not an excuse. We need another ruck to at least breakeven with hit-outs.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196751Post The Redeemer »

Legendary wrote:Ben McEvoy had the most hitouts last year of any St Kilda ruckman since Peter Everitt.

He also averaged more hitouts per game than Michael Gardiner ever did in any period of time with the Saints.

McEvoy's efforts in 2011 included 37 hitouts against Brad Ottens and 29 against Darren Jolly.


Instead of crucifying a bloke based on 1 half of a pre-season match, perhaps you should look at his outstanding form in 2011 when he carried the ruck load solo for the entire year as a 21-year old.
Statistics do not tell the story.

King and Gardiner shared the ruck quite evenly and Ben has had to ruck many more minutes per game.

Mac has the most hit-out in a year since Everitt because the game and our game style has changed significantly.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196754Post Dr Spaceman »

Junction Oval wrote:The problem is, Trade week doesn't start until October !

Al Gore wrote:Now THAT'S an inconvenient truth :wink:


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196756Post Sainternist »

Looking forward to seeing how Big Mac goes when the real season starts.


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St Ick
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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196760Post St Ick »

samoht wrote:A few of the opposition's so called "winning" hitouts actually end up in our player's hands i.e. advantage our players - yet are still counted as "winning" taps for them. Let's call these stray winning hitouts -" hitouts to disadvantage".
There should be a stat column for them too.

If you add up a all these stray hitouts and take them away from the hitouts to advantage - it'd provide a clearer picture for each ruckman and it'll show their "real" performance.. it might even make us re-think and downrate some of these "superstar" tap ruckmen.
For instance our stray tap that went to Wanganeen who kicked a critical goal in the prelim, would have been counted as a winning tap for us, when it lost us the game. That's ridiculous and yet that's stats for you in a nutshell.
It's more about what stats miss than what they show,

Stray hitouts... hate to say it but Stanley had quite a few of these in his nine hitouts. At least he was competing though. Agree ruck stats tend to lie a bit


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196894Post St Lenny »

Let me make it clear, I am not saying anything against Ben, but, I dont believe he is ready to be no 1 ruckman. As I have said before and I will continue to say it. If he gets injured we are totally stuffed. This is a very bad situation we have got ourselves into. Saying he has got the most tap outs since Spider is totally irrelevant. I hope he can take the next step really quickly, but its putting a lot of pressure on him.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196951Post Spinner »

St Lenny wrote:Let me make it clear, I am not saying anything against Ben, but, I dont believe he is ready to be no 1 ruckman. As I have said before and I will continue to say it. If he gets injured we are totally stuffed. This is a very bad situation we have got ourselves into. Saying he has got the most tap outs since Spider is totally irrelevant. I hope he can take the next step really quickly, but its putting a lot of pressure on him.

Ok,

Who would you have gone out and purchased last year? Who would have been available/wanted to change clubs?

And what would you have given up for them?



Of course Ben needs help. He is basically our only recognised ruckman. Of course he shouldnt be number 1 yet, he is only 21/22.

But on the back of availability, he is doing a super fantastic job at #1. And the difference with Ben is, he will get better and better. This isnt a Patterson/Ackland/Blake job where the player has peaked. Ben will be a star for us.


While you are at is, please purchase us a couple of extra elite midfielders, and a gorrila full back.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196952Post spert »

Big Ben was sick and sorry after the big hit with Roo, and he wasn't going to be jumping for screamers after that, and not in that heat.. Stanley did pretty well in the ruck against Nat, much improved.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196956Post Megsie »

Ben will stand up in the "REAL" season.
Rhys on the other hand has always been a good VFL player
& maybe a good NAB cup player too. Not sure he's got what
it takes.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196961Post The Redeemer »

Spinner wrote:
St Lenny wrote:Let me make it clear, I am not saying anything against Ben, but, I dont believe he is ready to be no 1 ruckman. As I have said before and I will continue to say it. If he gets injured we are totally stuffed. This is a very bad situation we have got ourselves into. Saying he has got the most tap outs since Spider is totally irrelevant. I hope he can take the next step really quickly, but its putting a lot of pressure on him.

Ok,

Who would you have gone out and purchased last year? Who would have been available/wanted to change clubs?

And what would you have given up for them?



Of course Ben needs help. He is basically our only recognised ruckman. Of course he shouldnt be number 1 yet, he is only 21/22.

But on the back of availability, he is doing a super fantastic job at #1. And the difference with Ben is, he will get better and better. This isnt a Patterson/Ackland/Blake job where the player has peaked. Ben will be a star for us.


While you are at is, please purchase us a couple of extra elite midfielders, and a gorrila full back.
Jon Griffin? Zac Clarke?

Griffin is a ruckman a few years older than Mac and would have been more than suitable support and Clarke is a much better option than Stanley getting even close to playing in the 1's.

Point is kind of mute though as we had salary issues...


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196985Post Spinner »

The Redeemer wrote:
Spinner wrote:
St Lenny wrote:Let me make it clear, I am not saying anything against Ben, but, I dont believe he is ready to be no 1 ruckman. As I have said before and I will continue to say it. If he gets injured we are totally stuffed. This is a very bad situation we have got ourselves into. Saying he has got the most tap outs since Spider is totally irrelevant. I hope he can take the next step really quickly, but its putting a lot of pressure on him.

Ok,

Who would you have gone out and purchased last year? Who would have been available/wanted to change clubs?

And what would you have given up for them?



Of course Ben needs help. He is basically our only recognised ruckman. Of course he shouldnt be number 1 yet, he is only 21/22.

But on the back of availability, he is doing a super fantastic job at #1. And the difference with Ben is, he will get better and better. This isnt a Patterson/Ackland/Blake job where the player has peaked. Ben will be a star for us.


While you are at is, please purchase us a couple of extra elite midfielders, and a gorrila full back.
Jon Griffin? Zac Clarke?

Griffin is a ruckman a few years older than Mac and would have been more than suitable support and Clarke is a much better option than Stanley getting even close to playing in the 1's.

Point is kind of mute though as we had salary issues...

Griffen wanted to leave to SA but RL prevented him from leaving.

And they would have never traded Zac Clarke.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1196986Post Con Gorozidis »

we could have rookied that big broc mcauley unit.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197005Post The Redeemer »

Con Gorozidis wrote:we could have rookied that big broc mcauley unit.
What annoys me somewhat is that it is another missed opportunity.

We need either a mature-age ruckman or trade/draft another ruck roughly around Macs age so we can build a partnership for now and in years to come.

I do not think that having Kosi or Stanley is the answer either as Mac will need some time off the ground.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197019Post SaintPav »

Megsie wrote:Ben will stand up in the "REAL" season.
Rhys on the other hand has always been a good VFL player
& maybe a good NAB cup player too. Not sure he's got what
it takes.
When was Stanley a good VFL player?


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197022Post SaintPav »

The Redeemer wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:we could have rookied that big broc mcauley unit.
What annoys me somewhat is that it is another missed opportunity.

We need either a mature-age ruckman or trade/draft another ruck roughly around Macs age so we can build a partnership for now and in years to come.

I do not think that having Kosi or Stanley is the answer either as Mac will need some time off the ground.
He was let go by Brisbane and picked up with the no 16 pick by the Hawks in the rookie draft. It wasn't like he was hot property or anything. Wonder why the Lions turfed him.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197034Post PJ »

Ben ATM is a good 2nd ruck option and handy around the ground. I'd be putting more work into Stanley - he's got the height and leap and is now doing a brilliant job around the ground for 200 cm + ruckman that is younger than Ben.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197052Post gringo »

WinnersOnly wrote:STANLEY was far better in the ruck yesterday than McEvoy. I have been saying for the past 6 months that we are in huge trouble if we are relying on MvEvoy to carry our rucking stocks into the future. Our other issue is that we have no other ruckman developing on our list. SAINTS have been very poor in their development of ruckman over the years and it doesn't look like it will change in the near future !

Staley might be a ruckman long term and Lever is ruckman sized but possibly more a big KPP.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197062Post QuestionOfAccuracy »

You can't use Big Mac's stats to compare him against Gardi.

Big Mac was a lone hand in the ruck in a lot of games last year, so of course his hit out numbers are going to be up. That's not to say had a bad year - I'm a big McEvoy fan.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197075Post plugger66 »

PJ wrote:Ben ATM is a good 2nd ruck option and handy around the ground. I'd be putting more work into Stanley - he's got the height and leap and is now doing a brilliant job around the ground for 200 cm + ruckman that is younger than Ben.

So Stanley has passed Ben as a ruckman after a couple of practice games. Dont people actually look at the proper footy over tha last 2 years. Stanley may have improved but he is clearly no where near Ben. Still very doubtful he will play round one. Needs a good game on Friday and i think he can play but I take little notice of these games. if i did then our year is in trouble before it starts.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197084Post SaintPav »

plugger66 wrote:
PJ wrote:Ben ATM is a good 2nd ruck option and handy around the ground. I'd be putting more work into Stanley - he's got the height and leap and is now doing a brilliant job around the ground for 200 cm + ruckman that is younger than Ben.

So Stanley has passed Ben as a ruckman after a couple of practice games. Dont people actually look at the proper footy over tha last 2 years. Stanley may have improved but he is clearly no where near Ben. Still very doubtful he will play round one. Needs a good game on Friday and i think he can play but I take little notice of these games. if i did then our year is in trouble before it starts.

Interesting. Why do you say he can play when the only good games he has ever really played are the praccie games which you take little notice of. I'm curious.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197085Post joffaboy »

The Redeemer wrote:Point is kind of mute though as we had salary issues...
moot not mute


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197092Post samoht »

joffaboy wrote:
The Redeemer wrote:Point is kind of mute though as we had salary issues...
moot not mute

Spelling has suddenly become de rigueur ?


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197093Post felix »

Big cox and nic nat are probably the best rucking duo footy has ever seen , I don't think any team currently has the ability to stop them nevermind big Ben .With Jack Darling coming on fast and Kerr finding good form , would be worth putting a dollar or to on the eagles for the flag.


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Re: So Ben was killed again...

Post: # 1197131Post Dave McNamara »

Seeing that Ben is named to play again this week... but then looking at the title of this post... looks like if this keeps up we'll have to call him Kenny...

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