They have better players all round.micthomas1 wrote:Clarky-449
What's the difference between Geelong 2010 and 2011?
A new young coach, one mature age forward and a sprinkling of kids, the core is the same and so is ours.
Are we really worse off going into 2012?
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mad saint guy
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Honestly I haven't gone into a season with such low expectations since the '08 off season after we were humiliated by the Hawks in the finals. Although if I recall correctly we had an ok season after that..
There are some real concerns though. While we still have 6-8 top quality players, there are question marks on some of the stars regarding whether they can get back to their best (Roo, Lenny). So many of our middle-tier players have underperformed, it remains to be seen whether Kosi, Ray, Clarke, Gilbert, Peake, Schneider, Jones and Dawson are really worth persevering with if we can't challenge for a flag.
The other big concern is that although we do have some promising kids, none of them are 'core' players. They are basically all flankers or midfield depth players. Cripps, Winmar, Crocker, Ferguson = all outside runners. Siposs = third forward. Ledger is one who can hopefully become a major part of the midfield. All these kids could come in and support the core of the team, but I don't see them replacing the core. There's no one to take over from Lenny, Fisher, Dal, Roo or Kosi when they retire. There's a real lack of inside mids and quality talls.
But if we head into 2012 with a team like this, I think we should be a decent chance at top 6 again
B: Gwilt, Dawson, Dempster
HB: Gilbert, Blake, Fisher
C: Montagna, Hayes, Goddard
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Siposs
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Saad
Foll: McEvoy, Dal Santo, Steven
Int: Armitage, Ledger, Ray, Peake
There are some real concerns though. While we still have 6-8 top quality players, there are question marks on some of the stars regarding whether they can get back to their best (Roo, Lenny). So many of our middle-tier players have underperformed, it remains to be seen whether Kosi, Ray, Clarke, Gilbert, Peake, Schneider, Jones and Dawson are really worth persevering with if we can't challenge for a flag.
The other big concern is that although we do have some promising kids, none of them are 'core' players. They are basically all flankers or midfield depth players. Cripps, Winmar, Crocker, Ferguson = all outside runners. Siposs = third forward. Ledger is one who can hopefully become a major part of the midfield. All these kids could come in and support the core of the team, but I don't see them replacing the core. There's no one to take over from Lenny, Fisher, Dal, Roo or Kosi when they retire. There's a real lack of inside mids and quality talls.
But if we head into 2012 with a team like this, I think we should be a decent chance at top 6 again
B: Gwilt, Dawson, Dempster
HB: Gilbert, Blake, Fisher
C: Montagna, Hayes, Goddard
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Siposs
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Saad
Foll: McEvoy, Dal Santo, Steven
Int: Armitage, Ledger, Ray, Peake
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micthomas1
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I guess that shows just how fikkle footy is, because it did not look that way in 2010 and nearly everyone predicted they would be the big slidders in 2011 . I'm saying that all is not lost or gloom and doom, I wil back our top 6 - 8 core players against anyone and if we get a little luck we will be right up there again next year.
Question new to being active (rather than just reading) in this forum - how do you include my message in your reply?
Question new to being active (rather than just reading) in this forum - how do you include my message in your reply?
Press the quote buttom on the top right corner.micthomas1 wrote:I guess that shows just how fikkle footy is, because it did not look that way in 2010 and nearly everyone predicted they would be the big slidders in 2011 . I'm saying that all is not lost or gloom and doom, I wil back our top 6 - 8 core players against anyone and if we get a little luck we will be right up there again next year.
Question new to being active (rather than just reading) in this forum - how do you include my message in your reply?
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micthomas1
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plugger66 wrote:Press the quote buttom on the top right corner.micthomas1 wrote:I guess that shows just how fikkle footy is, because it did not look that way in 2010 and nearly everyone predicted they would be the big slidders in 2011 . I'm saying that all is not lost or gloom and doom, I wil back our top 6 - 8 core players against anyone and if we get a little luck we will be right up there again next year.
Question new to being active (rather than just reading) in this forum - how do you include my message in your reply?
Thank-you
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micthomas1
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mad saint guy wrote:Honestly I haven't gone into a season with such low expectations since the '08 off season after we were humiliated by the Hawks in the finals. Although if I recall correctly we had an ok season after that..
There are some real concerns though. While we still have 6-8 top quality players, there are question marks on some of the stars regarding whether they can get back to their best (Roo, Lenny). So many of our middle-tier players have underperformed, it remains to be seen whether Kosi, Ray, Clarke, Gilbert, Peake, Schneider, Jones and Dawson are really worth persevering with if we can't challenge for a flag.
The other big concern is that although we do have some promising kids, none of them are 'core' players. They are basically all flankers or midfield depth players. Cripps, Winmar, Crocker, Ferguson = all outside runners. Siposs = third forward. Ledger is one who can hopefully become a major part of the midfield. All these kids could come in and support the core of the team, but I don't see them replacing the core. There's no one to take over from Lenny, Fisher, Dal, Roo or Kosi when they retire. There's a real lack of inside mids and quality talls.
But if we head into 2012 with a team like this, I think we should be a decent chance at top 6 again
B: Gwilt, Dawson, Dempster
HB: Gilbert, Blake, Fisher
C: Montagna, Hayes, Goddard
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Siposs
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Saad
Foll: McEvoy, Dal Santo, Steven
Int: Armitage, Ledger, Ray, Peake
I think you have the balance of that team just about right, although I am sure Jones , Gram, Geary and maybe Polo have a role to play. What does concern me is lack of a second specialist ruckman on our list if big Ben goes down.
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To the top
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We have a core of very good footballers in Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, Goddard, Fisher, Dal Santo and Koschitzke (freed up from full forward and playing as a ruck/utility - and with a pre-season).
What we do need is better seasons from each of these players given they all under performed in 2011 except for Fisher and Dal Santo (given his Brownlow finish).
From there we have a good list of foot soldiers in Gram, Clarke, Gilbert, Ray, Dempster and Jones.
We look for continued improvement from McEvoy, Steven and Armitage.
Past that we have a number of young players, starting with Cripps, Ledger and Sippos, who have have limited or no exposure at AFL level.
We are slightly out of balance because our core of mid 20 year old players is deficient in number, so we look for our younger bracket players to fill this void. This is a product of our recruiting of fringe players from other clubs over recent years - some still with us and others not.
If our kids can stand up, and our top tier players perform to their standards - and our mid 20 foot soldiers stand up we will still be right in the mix - particularly if we get the favourable draw which is owed to us.
Gwilt will return mid-season to add some "body".
There is the problem of the lack of ruck support for McEvoy because we would not ideally want Koschitzke as the lead ruck but in the support position.
But we have some more kids to draft.
That is footy.
So why the doom and gloom?
Every club is in the same position as St Kilda.
All are attempting to develop their list - it is on-going.
And our only player over 30 in the lists above is Hayes - because he is a champion.
What we do need is better seasons from each of these players given they all under performed in 2011 except for Fisher and Dal Santo (given his Brownlow finish).
From there we have a good list of foot soldiers in Gram, Clarke, Gilbert, Ray, Dempster and Jones.
We look for continued improvement from McEvoy, Steven and Armitage.
Past that we have a number of young players, starting with Cripps, Ledger and Sippos, who have have limited or no exposure at AFL level.
We are slightly out of balance because our core of mid 20 year old players is deficient in number, so we look for our younger bracket players to fill this void. This is a product of our recruiting of fringe players from other clubs over recent years - some still with us and others not.
If our kids can stand up, and our top tier players perform to their standards - and our mid 20 foot soldiers stand up we will still be right in the mix - particularly if we get the favourable draw which is owed to us.
Gwilt will return mid-season to add some "body".
There is the problem of the lack of ruck support for McEvoy because we would not ideally want Koschitzke as the lead ruck but in the support position.
But we have some more kids to draft.
That is footy.
So why the doom and gloom?
Every club is in the same position as St Kilda.
All are attempting to develop their list - it is on-going.
And our only player over 30 in the lists above is Hayes - because he is a champion.
Strange that you didnt mention one of our AA this year, Milney. has been one of our most consistant players for years but we know that you cant see that so you lose all credibility. Now take the blinkers off. It is becoming embarrassing.To the top wrote:We have a core of very good footballers in Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, Goddard, Fisher, Dal Santo and Koschitzke (freed up from full forward and playing as a ruck/utility - and with a pre-season).
What we do need is better seasons from each of these players given they all under performed in 2011 except for Fisher and Dal Santo (given his Brownlow finish).
From there we have a good list of foot soldiers in Gram, Clarke, Gilbert, Ray, Dempster and Jones.
We look for continued improvement from McEvoy, Steven and Armitage.
Past that we have a number of young players, starting with Cripps, Ledger and Sippos, who have have limited or no exposure at AFL level.
We are slightly out of balance because our core of mid 20 year old players is deficient in number, so we look for our younger bracket players to fill this void. This is a product of our recruiting of fringe players from other clubs over recent years - some still with us and others not.
If our kids can stand up, and our top tier players perform to their standards - and our mid 20 foot soldiers stand up we will still be right in the mix - particularly if we get the favourable draw which is owed to us.
Gwilt will return mid-season to add some "body".
There is the problem of the lack of ruck support for McEvoy because we would not ideally want Koschitzke as the lead ruck but in the support position.
But we have some more kids to draft.
That is footy.
So why the doom and gloom?
Every club is in the same position as St Kilda.
All are attempting to develop their list - it is on-going.
And our only player over 30 in the lists above is Hayes - because he is a champion.
Time to get positive. As always it is a roller coaster ride supporting the Saints - but right now i feel more passionate as a Saints supporter than i have before. The venom from other supporter (especially the filth) has me mystified and proud of this club.
Reckon the list is ok we just need some support for roo and Lenny along with opportunity for the kids i am sure it will be more enjoyable watching the Saints in 2012 than 2011. To be honest this year has felt like a long train wreck! Siposs, Ledger, Cripps and Stanley give me hope.
If the game plan is tweaked just a bit there will be more reason to be passionate about the Saints. Lets be honest the Cats have been a team that is good to watch for a long period when you can not always say that about the Saints.
Would love to finish above the PIES next year
Reckon the list is ok we just need some support for roo and Lenny along with opportunity for the kids i am sure it will be more enjoyable watching the Saints in 2012 than 2011. To be honest this year has felt like a long train wreck! Siposs, Ledger, Cripps and Stanley give me hope.
If the game plan is tweaked just a bit there will be more reason to be passionate about the Saints. Lets be honest the Cats have been a team that is good to watch for a long period when you can not always say that about the Saints.
Would love to finish above the PIES next year
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gringo
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I expect us to go well next year. We had the hell ride came out largely unscathed and with a new energy running through the place, we will be the surprise packets of 2012.
Geelong are going to struggle to improve due to the retirements, ageing list and kids usually have a down year. Bucks should shake things up at the woods. Then the next best Hawks, Carlton, WCE etc are all around our quality. If we can get up and fight with a good injury run, anything is possible.
Geelong are going to struggle to improve due to the retirements, ageing list and kids usually have a down year. Bucks should shake things up at the woods. Then the next best Hawks, Carlton, WCE etc are all around our quality. If we can get up and fight with a good injury run, anything is possible.
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To the top
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Shadow, Milne will be 32 in 2012.
Accordingly, he is NOT the future of the Club.
He represents graphically the period in which we lost Grand Finals (including because of luck, but we lost), Grand Finals in which he did not perform including because he is a one dimensional player ("small forward") with an ability to kick goals "around corners".
If St Kilda continue to rely on Milne as its "champion forward" in 2012 (including as highest goal scorer), we are in big, big trouble.
There is the increasing possibility that his "powers" will wane significantly thru 2012 - including because no team can afford a 175cm permanent forward pocket in today's football. O'Brien and the guy Sydney played on him both killed him, stone motherless killed him, including by running off him. You can NOT have players running off your mid-sized players.
We SHOULD have traded him out to Sheedy (both would revel in the publicity) and picked up the favourable Draft Picks Sheedy would have offered - including a first round draft pick.
THAT would have been the responsible solution to addressing the Salary Cap issue and the future of St Kilda.
Next season is 2012, Shadow.
Not 2011 or any season prior.
Milne is the past.
The likes of Cripps, Ledger and Sippos in our attacking region is the future.
Bring on the future!
You obviously have regard for Tony, but what did Tony deliver except goals, some good times and some ordinary times including for the administration of the Club at that time?
Tony left.
And we got some good kids in his place.
No one is irreplacable.
Simply, because a football club (hopefully!) is enduring - human beings all have a use by date and are transitory.
Same in business - a Company is enduring - the Managing Director and all associated with that Company have a use by date and are transitory.
If you want to put all your faith in a rising 32 year old, so be it.
But that is a recipe for disaster and more decades in the premiership competing wilderness.
The ONLY player over 30 I have included is Hayes - as specifically mentioned including as to reason.
Milne does not come within a bull's roar of what Hayes gives to St Kilda.
Accordingly, he is NOT the future of the Club.
He represents graphically the period in which we lost Grand Finals (including because of luck, but we lost), Grand Finals in which he did not perform including because he is a one dimensional player ("small forward") with an ability to kick goals "around corners".
If St Kilda continue to rely on Milne as its "champion forward" in 2012 (including as highest goal scorer), we are in big, big trouble.
There is the increasing possibility that his "powers" will wane significantly thru 2012 - including because no team can afford a 175cm permanent forward pocket in today's football. O'Brien and the guy Sydney played on him both killed him, stone motherless killed him, including by running off him. You can NOT have players running off your mid-sized players.
We SHOULD have traded him out to Sheedy (both would revel in the publicity) and picked up the favourable Draft Picks Sheedy would have offered - including a first round draft pick.
THAT would have been the responsible solution to addressing the Salary Cap issue and the future of St Kilda.
Next season is 2012, Shadow.
Not 2011 or any season prior.
Milne is the past.
The likes of Cripps, Ledger and Sippos in our attacking region is the future.
Bring on the future!
You obviously have regard for Tony, but what did Tony deliver except goals, some good times and some ordinary times including for the administration of the Club at that time?
Tony left.
And we got some good kids in his place.
No one is irreplacable.
Simply, because a football club (hopefully!) is enduring - human beings all have a use by date and are transitory.
Same in business - a Company is enduring - the Managing Director and all associated with that Company have a use by date and are transitory.
If you want to put all your faith in a rising 32 year old, so be it.
But that is a recipe for disaster and more decades in the premiership competing wilderness.
The ONLY player over 30 I have included is Hayes - as specifically mentioned including as to reason.
Milne does not come within a bull's roar of what Hayes gives to St Kilda.
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Kilda
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Blake at CHF? Mate, you've got to be joking! Blake is too slow, very ordinary disposal by foot and frankly at the end of his career...to be honest, he'd be lucky to avoid delisting in the coming week.mad saint guy wrote:
B: Gwilt, Dawson, Dempster
HB: Gilbert, Blake, Fisher
C: Montagna, Hayes, Goddard
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Siposs
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Saad
Foll: McEvoy, Dal Santo, Steven
Int: Armitage, Ledger, Ray, Peake
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gringo
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I'm not sure Blake is that slow, he has great closing speed and is a reliable defender. I would keep him as back up. as for milne he is worth playing because he is the best player available for his spot, if someone better presents themselves great. TTT is just having an opinion, don't agree but what's wrong with that. I though that's what every one on here does. It's no different to people that want Dawson, Clarke, Ray etc gone.Kilda wrote:Blake at CHF? Mate, you've got to be joking! Blake is too slow, very ordinary disposal by foot and frankly at the end of his career...to be honest, he'd be lucky to avoid delisting in the coming week.mad saint guy wrote:
B: Gwilt, Dawson, Dempster
HB: Gilbert, Blake, Fisher
C: Montagna, Hayes, Goddard
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Siposs
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Saad
Foll: McEvoy, Dal Santo, Steven
Int: Armitage, Ledger, Ray, Peake
Sorry i must have missed what happened between season 2011 and 2012 to all of a sudden make MIlne go from an AA to out of a side that may not even make the finals. When does age matter if you are playing well. Is 31 OK to play but 32 isnt. As usual you have written a lot and said nothing. Do you just like wasting your own time? We should have traded Milne. Maybe the most moronic thing you have said and that is amazing considering what you have previously said.To the top wrote:Shadow, Milne will be 32 in 2012.
Accordingly, he is NOT the future of the Club.
He represents graphically the period in which we lost Grand Finals (including because of luck, but we lost), Grand Finals in which he did not perform including because he is a one dimensional player ("small forward") with an ability to kick goals "around corners".
If St Kilda continue to rely on Milne as its "champion forward" in 2012 (including as highest goal scorer), we are in big, big trouble.
There is the increasing possibility that his "powers" will wane significantly thru 2012 - including because no team can afford a 175cm permanent forward pocket in today's football. O'Brien and the guy Sydney played on him both killed him, stone motherless killed him, including by running off him. You can NOT have players running off your mid-sized players.
We SHOULD have traded him out to Sheedy (both would revel in the publicity) and picked up the favourable Draft Picks Sheedy would have offered - including a first round draft pick.
THAT would have been the responsible solution to addressing the Salary Cap issue and the future of St Kilda.
Next season is 2012, Shadow.
Not 2011 or any season prior.
Milne is the past.
The likes of Cripps, Ledger and Sippos in our attacking region is the future.
Bring on the future!
You obviously have regard for Tony, but what did Tony deliver except goals, some good times and some ordinary times including for the administration of the Club at that time?
Tony left.
And we got some good kids in his place.
No one is irreplacable.
Simply, because a football club (hopefully!) is enduring - human beings all have a use by date and are transitory.
Same in business - a Company is enduring - the Managing Director and all associated with that Company have a use by date and are transitory.
If you want to put all your faith in a rising 32 year old, so be it.
But that is a recipe for disaster and more decades in the premiership competing wilderness.
The ONLY player over 30 I have included is Hayes - as specifically mentioned including as to reason.
Milne does not come within a bull's roar of what Hayes gives to St Kilda.
As someone said we are all entitled to an opinion and they usually cant be wrong as they are only opinions but in this case you are wrong. Amazingly wrong. Pretty sure Siposs, Ledger and Cripps can play as well as Milne. Or is it Cahill you want in the side even though I doubt you have ever seen him play a proper game.
