Who do we now delist?

[Junction Oval]

With the word at Trade Week being that Zac and Farren are not happy with the Saints offer, they could both walk in the Draft.

Collectively, they would be on reasonable money. Polo, Gamble and the other lesser lights, can't save us much in salaryt cap.

[mad saint guy]

Gamble
Heyne
Polo

Cahill gets lucky because of Lynch and Walsh going.

[Con Gorozidis]

With the word at Trade Week being that Zac and Farren are not happy with the Saints offer, they could both walk in the Draft.

Collectively, they would be on reasonable money. Polo, Gamble and the other lesser lights, can't save us much in salaryt cap.

i though i read that zac re-signed this morning?

[evertonfc]

Start with the ordinary players who have had opportunity at AFL level - Geary, Gamble, Heyne (only a couple of games but at that 187cm mid-fielder build that is easy to replace), Blake and Polo.

Yep. They're all on the chopping block.

Unfortunately there is no real option on the list for Dawson - unless Watters can identify someone.

A shame we didn't go for Bower. Much more gifted as a defender than Dawson who deserved much more opportunity than Carlton gave him. Definitely go for him in the PSD.

Along with Baker, McQualter, Lynch and Eddy that gets rid of 9/10 of our "role players" who have held us back in recent seasons.

And thank goodness for that.

Can Watters do a Gehrig and talk Gardiner into one final season?

I think that would result in a Gehrig-like comeback. Gardiner seems physically finished and I'd rather see Rhys Stanley given a go as McEvoy's deputy.

Broc McCauley could be worth investigating as a potential back-up, as Daniel Archer's ability is tantamount to mine.

[SainterK]

With the word at Trade Week being that Zac and Farren are not happy with the Saints offer, they could both walk in the Draft.

Collectively, they would be on reasonable money. Polo, Gamble and the other lesser lights, can't save us much in salaryt cap.

What's to stop another club putting them on the rookie list and they end up getting less?

[stinger]

one or two might still walk...there a a few still not signed up and money is short....

[St Ick]

one or two might still walk...there a a few still not signed up and money is short....

This is my concern, we haven't really sorted anything out with trade week. With Pelchin wanting to use the first 6 picks in the draft, what was the point in keeping the last two? Didn't we get 8 in the end? I would have bundled our last 3 and turned it into a 50? Maybe thats just too simplistic for this complex trade week.

I really don't know who will want out, I fear Blakey may have run his race which is sad for a great clubman. Polo and Gamble are replacable but are they contracted for next year? Pauly C would have to be the luckiest bloke around, having said that, if we picked up a decent tall 18 year old he'd almost be ahead of Cahill anyway... We do have Simpkin and Johnson, maybe Cahill on way out?

Don't want to lose Ray, Gram, Dawson, Peake, Dempster, CJ all for nothing, suitable trade I would have begrudgingly accepted it but for any of them to walk it will be pretty dire and terrible list management if you ask me.

[SainterK]

I know we may lose them for nothing, but why is there a guarantee that they will get more?

It's not like the Ball situation where they have a price on their head, nobody was really interested, and they may be rookied and get even less where they end up?

[Old Mate]

No doubt Ross would have been in the ear of a few of his 'role players.' "Nominate for the PSD and we'll look after ya."

[defacto]

have a feeling heyne and cahill will end up on the rookie list.

[bergholt]

I know we may lose them for nothing, but why is there a guarantee that they will get more?

if their managers are any good then they'll know what else is out there. all they need is a firm offer from another club and then they'll be happy to walk. and other clubs know that so they'll be sniffing around.

otherwise they will probably sign for reduced money, but that will only happen when they're sure there is nothing else around. basically means we cannot hope to keep a player which any other club wants.

[sax]

I actually think Archer will be safe with Walsh leaving.

Polo did enough to keep his spot also.

I think one or two of Blake, Dawson, Clarke, Peake, Ray & Dempster will walk (Please not Ray & Dempster)

I'd say Gamble, Heyne, Smith, Cahill & Johnson will probably be delisted. Gamble may be another one that might be safe with Walsh leaving.

[matrix]

honestly wouldnt bother me if ray went
one of gram and peake should stay
dawson, well unless we have a ready made full back then he must stay
dempster stays

[SainterK]

honestly wouldnt bother me if ray went
one of gram and peake should stay
dawson, well unless we have a ready made full back then he must stay
dempster stays

Could if be a case of Dawson walks, J Blake stays....or J Blake stays, Dawson walks M?

[Wrote for Luck]

reckon Johnson and Archer and Smith have developed well over last two years and will stay. Polo to go would be rough.

Outs are; Heyne, Gamble, Cahil, Peake

[thejiggingsaint]

IF Dawson wants to "walk" then so be it as far as I'm concerned. I reckon if he thinks he can do better at somewhere like the dockers then the very best of luck to him and I wish him well. Polo, I thought, had a reasonable season (after an indifferent start) Gamble? time to say goodbye I'm afraid. Gardiner to play on? NO! For the first time in years, I feel some degree of confidence in our list management/recruiting and it could be that we can put a few noses out of joint next year among those "pundits" ready to write us off!

[dragit]

I think the final against Sydney highlighted for me that Raph's worst is just too much of a liability. While his best is amazing, in high pressure situations he has been found out one too many times.

Compared with Farren Ray, who doesn't set the world on fire like Raph can, but he is very consistent, you know what he is going to bring every week.

Is it time to say goodbye to Raph?

Others for me would be Gamble & maybe Blake if we are really short on cap space? Peake can go missing in bigger games too so I would move him on before any of Dawson, Ray or Dempster.

It all really depends on actually how bad our cap situation is, as mentioned we could move Heyne & Cahill down to the rookie list to free up 2 senior spots…

We're all probably hoping that 3-4 of Saad, Cripps, Stanley, Winmar, Johnson, Ledger & Siposs become regular players next year.

For this to happen, some of these guys will have to miss out:
Blake, Clarke, Peake, Jones, Ray, Kosi, Geary & even Gilbert on last years form.

[older saint]

IF the salary cap is as bad as we are led to believe players such as;
Cahill
Heyne
Archer
Gamble
Polo
Will make SFA difference to the situation.

Basically i think either 3-5 players will need to take a hair cut in salary or one will be gone.

Dawson- Depends where Simpkins at but with Gwilt not back until mid year hard to replace

Gram/Clarke/Ray - Interesting mix here, Gram inconsistent best very good but norm is ok and sprays kicks like a sprinkler. Ray more consistent less brilliant. Good overhead and i think more versatile. Clarke - Whipping boy who's good has been great but bad has been horrid. Would be surprised if on as much as the other 2 so may not provide as much benefit either in delisting

Blake- Saving grace for him is we are short on back up Rucks/utilities and also based on how long he has been atthe club may be some ability to use veterans list concessions?

Delist due to performance:

Gamble
Heyne
Archer- Rookie
Cahill

Baker
Gardiner

Eddy(Rookie)

[The OtherThommo]

If we need a significant cut, then I reckon Ray's the one who will be sacrificed.

I think he'd be on reasonable dough. He was a high draft pick and we traded for him, which suggests we paid him reasonable money.

Dawson got there via the rookie list. I can't see how he'd be on anywhere near Ray's salary. Then there's the B&F, which all clubs use when establishing a list of who to keep. The B&F is a reasonable guide to how the club thinks a bloke is going. It's an internal measure that we can see.

Based on the B&F, Ray had a poor year. He polled about 9 per game he played. Dawson polled 18 per game, which suggests to me the club thought he went pretty well.

The next closest to Ray, per game were Kosi (12), Armitage (13) and Blake (15).

Ray's a midfielder type, good overhead and can run. But, his disposal is indecisive and poor. I don't think he's that hard to replace.

Dawson's a key defender with a solid record. They're harder to get and we don't have many (no-one does).

This will be a relative value for money decision. Given Ray's year, and his higher salary, the options to replace him and his deficiencies, I reckon he's the one under most pressure, if we have to make a significant cut.

I

[gurubob101]

I don't think Ray, Polo and Clarke have much choice but to take a pay cut or risk missing out all together. Freo showed interest in Dawson so he looks the most likely to go to another club through the PSD. Time to put games into Tom Simpkin.

Tom Simpkin 191cm & 90kg is around about the right size and we have Blakey as a back up. The best two full backs in the AFL, Glass & Scarlett are 192 and weigh in around the same.
Rutten is heavier and Harry Taylor a couple of centimetres taller but Simpkin and Blake stack up ok in the tale of the tape.

[ralphsmith]

Raph Clarke - Bad awareness and bad decision making
Clint Jones - Can't kick
Zac Dawon - Overall apathy and lack of aggression
Gram - Long bombs to nobody too often. Doesn't think when kicking, goes for the borrrrk instead of the first option too often.

[Wrote for Luck]

don't really think we should be talking about Jonesy amongst this should we!

[gurubob101]

don't really think we should be talking about Jonesy amongst this should we!

No, you're right. You can safely assume it is only uncontracted players that will be affected as we won't want to be paying out contracts if we can avoid it. Good point.

[defacto]

don't really think we should be talking about Jonesy amongst this should we!

why do people want to delist so many players!!!!

correct me if i am wrong but we can up to 40 senior players. we have 4 veterans so we can have 6 rookies and potentially 2 more international rookies.

is this correct?

[Little Dozer]

Raph Clarke - Bad awareness and bad decision making
Clint Jones - Can't kick
Zac Dawon - Overall apathy and lack of aggression
Gram - Long bombs to nobody too often. Doesn't think when kicking, goes for the borrrrk instead of the first option too often.

Agree about Clarke and Dawson, time to go. Jones is one of the best taggers in the league and must stay. Gram can stay if he'll play for less money, otherwise seeya.