I empathise with you mate, however Gram as been notorious for squibbing the hard ball and tackles, though he is an undeniably a good ball winner. If it means we can ease our salary cap pressures I'm for it.fingers wrote:If the deal is right then so be it.... I can't help but feel that Gram actually really loves St Kilda and I don't like seeing players like that leaving. Guess I'm getting soft in my old age.
Gram up for Grabs
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You mean Santa O'Hopeless?saintspremiers wrote:What about getting Irish from Carlscum as a backup for Macca?
For a 5th round pick id think about it
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Maybe Gram will be better under a new coach? Thought he was pretty good last year.
However I understand the logic that everyone is looking for more wedge (especially the younger guys) and probably they've already got it (Armo and Steven).
At the end of the day I really don't want anyone to go.
If Gram did go I would expect Lynch to take his spot.
However I understand the logic that everyone is looking for more wedge (especially the younger guys) and probably they've already got it (Armo and Steven).
At the end of the day I really don't want anyone to go.
If Gram did go I would expect Lynch to take his spot.
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Really, in terms of list management it is also about VALUE.
Hence, while it was sad to lose Ball a couple of years ago, he was in the top 5 paid players at the club, whilst being only around 10-15 most important on the list. That is not smart list management.
IMO, similar is likely to be true for Gram. I suspect that he is on a fair $$, and for mine whilst I like him as a player, he has not come on as I had hoped after he won the Michael Tuck medal in the 2008 NAB Cup win. IMO that was his best game ever for the club was when. Yes he had a stellar GF in 2009, but he did not become the A grade mid that we hoped for - in the way that for instance Joey did (from a lower starting point).
IMO he was actually a better and more consistent player as a rebounding half back than he has been having spent more time running through the midfield. Towards the end of this year, I reckon Ross played him in more accountable roles on opposition small forwards and he did a good job. In the game vs the Swans IMO he was one of our better players.
However, I go back to the initial point. He's probably around 10-15 on the list and has, arguably, his best days behind him. As someone else pointed out, I agree that he loves the club and has good mates, however, it is a professional footy club - and it is for the likes of Pelchen to be making these sorts of calls - obviously without ruining the fabric of the place. Clearly the salary cap is an issue. People who whine about how we got into this sort of trouble are clueless as the Bombers had this trouble a decade ago, the Cats have lost players (GAblett and Mumford) and the pies look like they will lose players also. Hard call, but if it were to come down to say Gram, Raph or Gilbert, then that is the order I would be losing them in.
For mine, if he were to go to the Roos, then these are possible deals....
Gram + pick 42 (Saints 2nd round) FOR pick 18 (Roos first round)
If Roos won't give up their first round pick then....
Gram + pick 20 (Saints 1st round) FOR pick 18 (Roos 1st round) + pick 40 (Roos 2nd round)
Hence, while it was sad to lose Ball a couple of years ago, he was in the top 5 paid players at the club, whilst being only around 10-15 most important on the list. That is not smart list management.
IMO, similar is likely to be true for Gram. I suspect that he is on a fair $$, and for mine whilst I like him as a player, he has not come on as I had hoped after he won the Michael Tuck medal in the 2008 NAB Cup win. IMO that was his best game ever for the club was when. Yes he had a stellar GF in 2009, but he did not become the A grade mid that we hoped for - in the way that for instance Joey did (from a lower starting point).
IMO he was actually a better and more consistent player as a rebounding half back than he has been having spent more time running through the midfield. Towards the end of this year, I reckon Ross played him in more accountable roles on opposition small forwards and he did a good job. In the game vs the Swans IMO he was one of our better players.
However, I go back to the initial point. He's probably around 10-15 on the list and has, arguably, his best days behind him. As someone else pointed out, I agree that he loves the club and has good mates, however, it is a professional footy club - and it is for the likes of Pelchen to be making these sorts of calls - obviously without ruining the fabric of the place. Clearly the salary cap is an issue. People who whine about how we got into this sort of trouble are clueless as the Bombers had this trouble a decade ago, the Cats have lost players (GAblett and Mumford) and the pies look like they will lose players also. Hard call, but if it were to come down to say Gram, Raph or Gilbert, then that is the order I would be losing them in.
For mine, if he were to go to the Roos, then these are possible deals....
Gram + pick 42 (Saints 2nd round) FOR pick 18 (Roos first round)
If Roos won't give up their first round pick then....
Gram + pick 20 (Saints 1st round) FOR pick 18 (Roos 1st round) + pick 40 (Roos 2nd round)
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
He we keep Gram just to s.hit barks
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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He was an injury prone saints fan in brissies best era who wanted to be traded to us.savatage wrote:Yep coz I guess getting traded once already didn't give him the kick in the arse he needed to pull his finger out consistently...SainterK wrote: May be the best thing for him in the long run to get a fresh start somewhere.
Ray like gram has questionable skills and decision making. these are the type of guys we should be trying to off load if we need salary cap relief. raph another.samoht wrote:Ray is a good player who will benefit from a better coach - his best football was early on and RL slowly stifled him... IMO.
He can provide valuable run under a new more positive coach with a positive game plan.. a coach who will see his real worth.
Last edited by Old Mate on Tue 11 Oct 2011 9:40am, edited 1 time in total.
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Got hurt and then Goldsteins form kept him out of the team.Rosco wrote:was mcintosh injured this year or just kept out by goldstein?Old Mate wrote:Do it....do itHurricane wrote:Gram to North for Hamish McIntosh?
BANG BANG
do they play a second ruck?
BANG BANG
Mitsuharu Misawa 1962 - 2009.
I am vengeance....I am the night...I....AM.....BATMAN
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and im all out of bubblegum
I am vengeance....I am the night...I....AM.....BATMAN
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and im all out of bubblegum
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That would be win win. Injury restricted talented players who have lost some value. Just can't see the advantage to our cap.Rosco wrote:was mcintosh injured this year or just kept out by goldstein?Old Mate wrote:Do it....do itHurricane wrote:Gram to North for Hamish McIntosh?
BANG BANG
do they play a second ruck?