Maybe they just didn't want him as much as we all think

[Junction Oval]

Clearly, the Club was concerned enough to put things on hold in April.

That things were left to so late in September indicates either on-going concerns, or a poorly managed situation. After all, the Club offered a 4 year term. If the Club didn't want that, then they could have offered a shorter term and taken their chances.

What has surprised most supporters, who have no real-time access, is how much Ross "turned" on the Club and his players. In hindsight, he had a lot of us, including me, fooled!

[bobmurray]

Clearly, the Club was concerned enough to put things on hold in April.

That things were left to so late in September indicates either on-going concerns, or a poorly managed situation. After all, the Club offered a 4 year term. If the Club didn't want that, then they could have offered a shorter term and taken their chances.

What has surprised most supporters, who have no real-time access, is how much Ross "turned" on the Club and his players. In hindsight, he had a lot of us, including me, fooled!

Lets hope in his time at Freo he is exposed as a fool.....

And that is the end of his coaching career........a career coach my arse...plenty of coaches have careered out of a job and Lyin maybe another

[Dr Spaceman]

Clearly, the Club was concerned enough to put things on hold in April.

That things were left to so late in September indicates either on-going concerns, or a poorly managed situation. After all, the Club offered a 4 year term. If the Club didn't want that, then they could have offered a shorter term and taken their chances.

What has surprised most supporters, who have no real-time access, is how much Ross "turned" on the Club and his players. In hindsight, he had a lot of us, including me, fooled!

Yep. Saturday night he's got his players hopes and dreams in his hands; five days later he's p1ssed off and left them high and dry.

Un-bloody-believable

[White Winmar]

As for that crap about the whole deal being thrown together and signed-off on in the space of 72 hours, just goes to show he has no respect for the intelligence of the players, staff, board or members and supporters. An operation like this takes some time to put together. He had betrayed us all for weeks, if not months.

There have been concerns for some time. His actions have confirmed these concerns were justified. I just hope he now disappears into that black hole of incompetence that is Fremantle Football Club. They've pulled off a coup alright, but as usual with Fremantle, it is against themselves.

[Moods]

Seems strange that the club would offer him EVERYTHING he was after, not just the 4 yr deal but the removal of all the clauses - and yet they still didn't really want him

Not a bad post White Winmar, but I don't buy it.

And of course blokes who are delisted/forced into retirement are going to grumble. How many blokes in that position leave stating that even though they thought they could give another year, the coach was right in sackin them......

[SainterK]

Seems strange that the club would offer him EVERYTHING he was after, not just the 4 yr deal but the removal of all the clauses - and yet they still didn't really want him

Not a bad post White Winmar, but I don't buy it.

And of course blokes who are delisted/forced into retirement are going to grumble. How many blokes in that position leave stating that even though they thought they could give another year, the coach was right in sackin them......

You happy with his dictating his way all the time though?

Watch the presser again, watch his voice dripping with contempt when I says "I asked" etc etc.

You are right, he did get everything he asked, maybe we saw what happens when he feels he isn't in control.

[White Winmar]

Moods, I never said they didn't want him. I actually said they did in my first explanatory post. That's why they offered him a contract. What I'm saying is they are not as shattered or concerned about his departure as you might think.

I'll put it this way. Many people stay in bad marriages because they can't see, or indeed obtain, a better life arrangement. So they stay in a loveless union because it suits for various reasons, be they financial, familial, or for stability and security. Given a better alternative, they would make a move. Sometimes it is forced upon them when one of the parties finally wants out. The other party was quite prepared to go on, but is eventually relieved that it's come to an end. That's what I'm saying about Ross Lyin' and the saints. It had become that sort of relationship.

[White Winmar]

Seems strange that the club would offer him EVERYTHING he was after, not just the 4 yr deal but the removal of all the clauses - and yet they still didn't really want him

Not a bad post White Winmar, but I don't buy it.

And of course blokes who are delisted/forced into retirement are going to grumble. How many blokes in that position leave stating that even though they thought they could give another year, the coach was right in sackin them......

You happy with his dictating his way all the time though?

Watch the presser again, watch his voice dripping with contempt when I says "I asked" etc etc.

You are right, he did get everything he asked, maybe we saw what happens when he feels he isn't in control.

Spot on Sainter K. Your last sentence sums up the situation perfectly.

[Richter]

A very nuanced point of view WW.

And fits, psychologically, with what we have seen.

Westaway and Nettlefold really were not as angry as we might have expected them to be if they felt completely gutted not to have got their man.

And the truth is that whilst a proven quality coach at taking a good team to within a beesdick of a flag, when it comes to the rebuild job that we need, Ross is completely unproven.

[Johnny Member]

Yeah, by offering him the 4 year deal on Wednesday, they obviously were happy to keep him.

But, my feelings are that they weren't happy to keep him with things remaining the same as they had been over the past couple of years.

The writing was on the wall when Westaway spoke pre-season about our style of play.

And again, when Pelchen was hired.


Stability is important. And clearly Lyon had some good things going for him, so perhaps the Board felt that if he was forced (because from what I've heard he wasn't going to budge on it on his accord) to change some things he would have been a great coach.

Who knows?


One thing that I know personally, is that I'm really excited about the club and frankly, happy to see the back of Lyon.

So regardless of what, or how it happened, the end justifies the means for me!

[SaintPav]

Moods, I never said they didn't want him. I actually said they did in my first explanatory post. That's why they offered him a contract. What I'm saying is they are not as shattered or concerned about his departure as you might think.

I'll put it this way. Many people stay in bad marriages because they can't see, or indeed obtain, a better life arrangement. So they stay in a loveless union because it suits for various reasons, be they financial, familial, or for stability and security. Given a better alternative, they would make a move. Sometimes it is forced upon them when one of the parties finally wants out. The other party was quite prepared to go on, but is eventually relieved that it's come to an end. That's what I'm saying about Ross Lyin' and the saints. It had become that sort of relationship.

It's plausible. They wouldn't have the balls to sack him either. How do you justify sacking someone with a 63% winning ratio?

[dragit]

Moods, I never said they didn't want him. I actually said they did in my first explanatory post. That's why they offered him a contract. What I'm saying is they are not as shattered or concerned about his departure as you might think.

I'll put it this way. Many people stay in bad marriages because they can't see, or indeed obtain, a better life arrangement. So they stay in a loveless union because it suits for various reasons, be they financial, familial, or for stability and security. Given a better alternative, they would make a move. Sometimes it is forced upon them when one of the parties finally wants out. The other party was quite prepared to go on, but is eventually relieved that it's come to an end. That's what I'm saying about Ross Lyin' and the saints. It had become that sort of relationship.

It's plausible. They wouldn't have the balls to sack him either. How do you justify sacking someone with a 63% winning ratio?

Bit like Thomas being sacked after 3 straight years of finals I suppose, strange thing to do...

[kaos theory]

As for that crap about the whole deal being thrown together and signed-off on in the space of 72 hours, just goes to show he has no respect for the intelligence of the players, staff, board or members and supporters. An operation like this takes some time to put together. He had betrayed us all for weeks, if not months.

There have been concerns for some time. His actions have confirmed these concerns were justified. I just hope he now disappears into that black hole of incompetence that is Fremantle Football Club. They've pulled off a coup alright, but as usual with Fremantle, it is against themselves.

Agreed....He has lied all the way through. 72 hours my foot.

He has been scheming & planning for a while.

I also has concerns about how he prepared the players and coached for the swans final.With the benefit of hindsight, it seems to me he was a little to keen for the year to end for st.kilda.

[plugger66]

As for that crap about the whole deal being thrown together and signed-off on in the space of 72 hours, just goes to show he has no respect for the intelligence of the players, staff, board or members and supporters. An operation like this takes some time to put together. He had betrayed us all for weeks, if not months.

There have been concerns for some time. His actions have confirmed these concerns were justified. I just hope he now disappears into that black hole of incompetence that is Fremantle Football Club. They've pulled off a coup alright, but as usual with Fremantle, it is against themselves.

Agreed....He has lied all the way through. 72 hours my foot.

He has been scheming & planning for a while.

I also has concerns about how he prepared the players and coached for the swans final.With the benefit of hindsight, it seems to me he was a little to keen for the year to end for st.kilda.

How do you know how he prepared the players for the Swans final?

[kaos theory]

As for that crap about the whole deal being thrown together and signed-off on in the space of 72 hours, just goes to show he has no respect for the intelligence of the players, staff, board or members and supporters. An operation like this takes some time to put together. He had betrayed us all for weeks, if not months.

There have been concerns for some time. His actions have confirmed these concerns were justified. I just hope he now disappears into that black hole of incompetence that is Fremantle Football Club. They've pulled off a coup alright, but as usual with Fremantle, it is against themselves.

Agreed....He has lied all the way through. 72 hours my foot.

He has been scheming & planning for a while.

I also has concerns about how he prepared the players and coached for the swans final.With the benefit of hindsight, it seems to me he was a little to keen for the year to end for st.kilda.

How do you know how he prepared the players for the Swans final?

Read what I wrote, P66. I said 'concerns'...in the context of what we know now. I didn't say I had inside knowledge.

Its probable he did his best to try to win that game, BUT given what's happened over the last week, and given our complete collapse on the night, there are concerns.

[Dr Spaceman]

As for that crap about the whole deal being thrown together and signed-off on in the space of 72 hours, just goes to show he has no respect for the intelligence of the players, staff, board or members and supporters.  An operation like this takes some time to put together.  He had betrayed us all for weeks, if not months.

There have been concerns for some time.  His actions have confirmed these concerns were justified.   I just hope he now disappears into that black hole of incompetence that is Fremantle Football Club.  They've pulled off a coup alright, but as usual with Fremantle, it is against themselves.

Agreed....He has lied all the way through. 72 hours my foot.

He has been scheming & planning for a while.

I also has concerns about how he prepared the players and coached for the swans final.With the benefit of hindsight, it seems to me he was a little to keen for the year to end for st.kilda.

How do you know how he prepared the players for the Swans final?

Read what I wrote, P66. I said 'concerns'...in the context of what we know now.  I didn't say I had inside knowledge. 

Its probable he did his best to try to win that game, BUT given what's happened over the last week, and given our complete collapse on the night, there are concerns.

I remember great concerns in 1997 with a Channel 7 film crew attending the house of some of our younger players on the morning of the GF. People thought it affected their concentration and preparation for the big game.

It's probably not too much of a stretch to think that Freo's millions, and the thoughts of what he was soon to do, may have occupied a bit of Lyon's mind in that last week.

[barks4eva]

although when you wrote the board did nothing wrong is definitely up for debate


true the board did not want him as much as most would imagine to be otherwise


and if by their actions, one being the appointment of Pelchen


the place now implodes, star players leave as a result and it all goes completely pear shaped history will judge them for having got this horribly wrong

Go join a cult if you haven't already done so. You obviously believe in Messiahs. You're the sort of bloke that would drink the poison, because your messiah tells you its the 'solution' to your salvation...

You obviously only just came down in the last shower!

Who was it on this site that wanted Thomas sacked in 2005 when about 95% of posters treated him like the messiah and second coming?

I was treated as an infidel and blasphemer for questioning the great man


oh the irony of it all!


I did not agree with everything Lyon did and only a few weeks ago was getting bagged on here for questioning his team selection as I have done for a couple of years


Your assertion could not be any more wrong than the crap you just posted.

[Johnny Member]

I was treated as an infidel and blasphemer for questioning the great man

Have you stopped to consider that it may not have been your opinion that had treated you that way, but instead the manner in which you expressed it?

[barks4eva]

I was treated as an infidel and blasphemer for questioning the great man

Have you stopped to consider that it may not have been your opinion that had treated you that way, but instead the manner in which you expressed it?

Fact is most people/flogs disagreed.... like around 95%


Then four years later with hindsight about 99% agreed


I now make a call on the board.... reckon about 80% on here would disagree


In four years with hindsight.... reckon 99.9999999% of you sleepers will agree

[Johnny Member]

I was treated as an infidel and blasphemer for questioning the great man

Have you stopped to consider that it may not have been your opinion that had treated you that way, but instead the manner in which you expressed it?

Fact is most people/flogs disagreed.... like around 95%


Then four years later with hindsight about 99% agreed


I now make a call on the board.... reckon about 80% on here would disagree


In four years with hindsight.... reckon 99.9999999% of you sleepers will agree

What's wrong with disagreeing?

And what's wrong with someone disagreeing with you?

[White Winmar]

Over the next few years we'll see how good a coach he really is. For the record, I believe he is a very good coach, who has a couple of serious flaws in his make up, but then don't we all! He may be as good as some say, he may not. One thing's for sure. The rabble that is Fremantle will test his abilities to the limit. The frustration factor will be greater than at St.Kilda. Patience and adaptability would not be regarded as being amongst his strengths.

In the end, he is not indispensable or irreplaceable. We got his appointment right back in 2006, after we got a late start and rejected all the "usual suspects" that were being touted in the media at the time. I have faith that a thorough selection process will throw up the best candidate.

[Austinnn]

I remember that "widely reported" scoop of seeing Lyon having a coffees with Pelchen. I thought at the time that that implied complicity, perhaps even that Lyon instigated the appointment, as suggested in the media.

Reflecting now, I was naïve. I've shared plenty of breaks with colleagues I've despised it doesn't mean anything. He may have even shared a joke with him, it said "Good on ya", etc...

More importantly, Lyon would have been shockingly negligent to not spend some time getting to know the new guy, his ideas, plans, the remit he'd been given, especially if he was wary.

Ross Lyon is many things, but an amateur or a fool he ain't. He would have remembered one of the oldest chestnuts on strategy there is:

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer.[/b]

[Dr Spaceman]

I remember that "widely reported" scoop of seeing Lyon having a coffees with Pelchen. I thought at the time that that implied complicity, perhaps even that Lyon instigated the appointment, as suggested in the media.

Reflecting now, I was naïve. I've shared plenty of breaks with colleagues I've despised it doesn't mean anything. He may have even shared a joke with him, it said "Good on ya", etc...

More importantly, Lyon would have been shockingly negligent to not spend some time getting to know the new guy, his ideas, plans, the remit he'd been given, especially if he was wary.

Ross Lyon is many things, but an amateur or a fool he ain't. He would have remembered one of the oldest chestnuts on strategy there is:

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer.

But it appears, given how quickly this all happened, that if there was a problem it was the thought of working with Pelchen rather than actually working with Pelchen.

[Austinnn]

Apologies for all the typos, I am writing this in my phone.

[Scollop]

true the board did not want him as much as most would imagine to be otherwise.......and if by their actions, one being the appointment of Pelchen

AND barks4eva wrote: Who was it on this site that wanted Thomas sacked in 2005 when about 95% of posters treated him like the messiah and second coming?
........I did not agree with everything Lyon did and only a few weeks ago was getting bagged on here for questioning his team selection as I have done for a couple of years.............


Your assertion could not be any more wrong than the crap you just posted.[/quote]

Where is the logic in your argument b4e? What sort of Kn0b says I was 'proven' right when GT was never given an opportunity to prove you wrong!!!!!!!!! - Shutup...think about that for a second!!!

The sacking of Lyon/defection to Freo/nudge out the door from this board was after this pr##k had his opportunity to work with the best bunch of core players when he was handed this side.

In 2004/2005 the Cats and Saints were vying for the position of next team with emerging young stars to challenge for a flag. Both the Cats and the Saints failed in 2006, but the Cats actually bagged their premierships after that...any way you want to put a twist on the score or the closeness, we are still flagless.

The Cats are in the hunt again this year. The Hawks through wonderful recruiting and coaching also won one and are in the hunt again this year... Your bloke who you say was a brilliant coach, actually went backwards in a big way this year and has neglected the youth to the detriment of our club. Instead of The Saints being the next power alongside the Cats we were overtaken by smarter more accomplished coaches and clubs who had faith in teaching, developing and recruiting talent, not rejects from other clubs.

You cannot expect the future leaders of St.Kilda to suddenly emerge as 21 year olds next year and be blooded as future captains if they have not had exposure and games under their belt alongside Roo and his vice captains and deputies. We have GT to thank for the enjoyment of our footy for the most part/majority of the last 8 years. We have that kn0b Lyon to thank for the pain ( sometimes excruciating pain, for getting so close and ending up with only heartache) and for the predicament and uncertainty of our prospects on-field in 2012 and beyond.

[/u]