Blight bags Thomas in Biography by Watson

[saintbrat]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/b ... 6090380706
[quote]Speaking on SEN today, Watson said Thomas had been loyal until the end.

“I don’t think so. In the people that I have spoken to for this book, and the key playmakers in all this, their stories are weren’t identical, but they were a similar story,â€

[Junction Oval]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We could've, should've, might've done this or that. We are where we are.

GT brought a different, more professional approach to previous coaches and was good for the young guys. Ego took over and the Thomas/Butters/Fraser combination was always going to implode the Club once the "effervescence" subsided. The Blight decision was simply an emotional grab and was a disaster.

We are on a far steadier, more professional footing now, but running a football Club is emotive, with big egos in play. Mistakes will continue to be made. Let's hope they are small ones.

I won't be buying the Book, as trolling over old ground and opening up old wounds is not productive. Hopefully, we have learnt from our past mistakes - for a while anyway.

[remboy]

Also, keep in mind that before GT was selected the best option identified to that point had been Chris Connolly. Do we think he would have done any better?

[saintly]

blight is simply a different kind of cat......he always had a disdain for the saints.....and bagged us out interstate talking about the saints "culture".....i see that that aspect doesn't get a mention.......i would support thomas everyday over that arsehole.....to me watson is just trying to further embarrass this club.....what he forgets is that he is the embarrassment......not us.....

...i won't be buying his book...

its not his book, its timmy's

[dcstkfc]

I stand firmly with Thomas. He was by no means perfect, but unlike the despicable Blight he cared about (and still cares about) the St Kilda Football Club.

[dcstkfc]

blight is simply a different kind of cat......he always had a disdain for the saints.....and bagged us out interstate talking about the saints "culture".....i see that that aspect doesn't get a mention.......i would support thomas everyday over that arsehole.....to me watson is just trying to further embarrass this club.....what he forgets is that he is the embarrassment......not us.....

...i won't be buying his book...

its not his book, its timmy's

Does this mean that Blight will write the book on Thomas, and Thomas the book on Lyon?

[Spinner]

I stand firmly with Thomas. He was by no means perfect, but unlike the despicable Blight he cared about (and still cares about) the St Kilda Football Club.

St Kilda Coaching PD

Must display the following qualitys:

-Care aboutthe club

Must possess the following skills and abilities:

N/A



Will be one hell of a short list. Advertising on here would cause a meltdown in HR.

[dcstkfc]

I stand firmly with Thomas. He was by no means perfect, but unlike the despicable Blight he cared about (and still cares about) the St Kilda Football Club.

St Kilda Coaching PD

Must display the following qualitys:

-Care aboutthe club

Must possess the following skills and abilities:

N/A



Will be one hell of a short list. Advertising on here would cause a meltdown in HR.

I didn't say it was the only quality required. But you're not going to be much chop if you're heart's not in it.

[markp]

Watson, Blight, Thomas... what a mighty dynasty of St Kilda coaches.

[saintly]

I stand firmly with Thomas. He was by no means perfect, but unlike the despicable Blight he cared about (and still cares about) the St Kilda Football Club.

cares so much, he sued the club for $200k for annual leave etc

cares so much he keeps bagging the club

yep he sure cares!

maybe he should shut up like other ex coaches from other teams, eg thompson, knights, laidley etc

[markp]

cares so much he keeps bagging the club

Because he cares!.... you never hear Alves bag the Club, the man obviously doesn't give a crap about it.

[BigMart]

Alves played 250 games elsewhere.......he's not a saint...

He was a saints coach..... An OK one

Jeans is a saint.....he coached 3 prems for hawthorn
Parkin is a hawk......coach prems at carlton
Matthews will always be a hawk

Why is everyone so against a guy who built a list, coached us to three successive finals campaigns....loves the club.....played for the club....
Has never said a bad word about Lyon, rates lyon as a great coach, admires the players....

Its like he is the anti-saint....

Yes he was disappointed at being sacked.......whats the issue with that...

[Spinner]

Alves played 250 games elsewhere.......he's not a saint...

He was a saints coach..... An OK one

Jeans is a saint.....he coached 3 prems for hawthorn
Parkin is a hawk......coach prems at carlton
Matthews will always be a hawk

Why is everyone so against a guy who built a list, coached us to three successive finals campaigns....loves the club.....played for the club....
Has never said a bad word about Lyon, rates lyon as a great coach, admires the players....

Its like he is the anti-saint....

Yes he was disappointed at being sacked.......whats the issue with that...

Wasn't good enough to begin with...

And wasn't good enough in the end.


Simple - don't see how people are so accepting of this.

[Dr Spaceman]

Alves played 250 games elsewhere.......he's not a saint...

He was a saints coach..... An OK one

Jeans is a saint.....he coached 3 prems for hawthorn
Parkin is a hawk......coach prems at carlton
Matthews will always be a hawk

Why is everyone so against a guy who built a list, coached us to three successive finals campaigns....loves the club.....played for the club....
Has never said a bad word about Lyon, rates lyon as a great coach, admires the players....

Its like he is the anti-saint....

Yes he was disappointed at being sacked.......whats the issue with that...

I think for a lot of people part of the answer lies here:

cares so much, he sued the club for $200k  for annual leave etc

Regardless of the legality of any claim many, including myself, have a problem with this. Here is a bloke who would never have had the chance to coach at senior AFL level in normal circumstances. Yet he managed to get that chance, by fair means or foul, and then managed to secure a salary way above that which a person with his experience and reputation would have warranted.

He did some good things for the club and would have been upset at his dismissal. Fair enough. But he did quite well out of his years as coach and to sue the club for hundreds of thousands of dollars was pretty poor form IMO.

[Johnny Member]

Alves played 250 games elsewhere.......he's not a saint...

He was a saints coach..... An OK one

Jeans is a saint.....he coached 3 prems for hawthorn
Parkin is a hawk......coach prems at carlton
Matthews will always be a hawk

Why is everyone so against a guy who built a list, coached us to three successive finals campaigns....loves the club.....played for the club....
Has never said a bad word about Lyon, rates lyon as a great coach, admires the players....

Its like he is the anti-saint....

Yes he was disappointed at being sacked.......whats the issue with that...

Wasn't good enough to begin with...

And wasn't good enough in the end.


Simple - don't see how people are so accepting of this.

I thought he was pretty good.

To me, one of the biggest tests of a good coach with a good game plan, is to win without your best players.

We did this in 05, and 06 aswell. Clearly when finals come around though, an injury depleted generally isn't even there in the first place, and if they are they just can't compete.

We actually won a final in 05 with injuries, and nearly won a prelim in 05 with outrageous injuries!


For mine, he was great for the club. A good coach, who was good in his time.
He pretty much created the uber-flood to teach the team defence, and subsequently had us in the top 3-4 defensive teams in the comp for about 3 years straight.
When you're injury ravaged, that's a damn good effort.

I don't think though, he'd be any good today. Even a guy like Leigh Matthews knew his time was up.
Some coaches can move with the times, and others even 'create the times', whereas others can't.

I reckon Thomas should have had 2007 as one last crack, but then that was it.

Lyon's been great too.



So really, I don't understand why Thomas' coaching career stirs up so many emotions.

It was a good time for the club, as is the one we're in now (sort of!).

[Johnny Member]

Alves played 250 games elsewhere.......he's not a saint...

He was a saints coach..... An OK one

Jeans is a saint.....he coached 3 prems for hawthorn
Parkin is a hawk......coach prems at carlton
Matthews will always be a hawk

Why is everyone so against a guy who built a list, coached us to three successive finals campaigns....loves the club.....played for the club....
Has never said a bad word about Lyon, rates lyon as a great coach, admires the players....

Its like he is the anti-saint....

Yes he was disappointed at being sacked.......whats the issue with that...

I think for a lot of people part of the answer lies here:

cares so much, he sued the club for $200k  for annual leave etc

Regardless of the legality of any claim many, including myself, have a problem with this. Here is a bloke who would never have had the chance to coach at senior AFL level in normal circumstances. Yet he managed to get that chance, by fair means or foul, and then managed to secure a salary way above that which a person with his experience and reputation would have warranted.

He did some good things for the club and would have been upset at his dismissal. Fair enough. But he did quite well out of his years as coach and to sue the club for hundreds of thousands of dollars was pretty poor form IMO.

Did he 'sue' though, or just 'claim' it?

Wasn't it owed to him? I didn't think he sued for damages or anything, I thought he just wanted what was legally owed to him?


Because if that's the case, then I think there's a difference. If it was owed to him, then surely no one can expect him to donate $200k to the club! No matter how much he says he loves the joint!

[joffaboy]

Why is everyone so against a guy who built a list, coached us to three successive finals campaigns....loves the club.....played for the club....

Everyone is against him?

Think not. He was good for the Saints for a few years but was sacked at the right time.

He was an OK coach who delivered a nice looking brand of football. Didn't quite stand up in finals but with luck and less injuries we could have at least made one GF under GT.

[markp]

It's a tedious argument... but I'm sure Alves was 'disappointed' about being sacked too, a year after taking us to a GF.... who freaking cares if a coach happened to play for us or not.

And just because you maybe had some good times with your ex, and possibly even share some kids, doesn't mean they've not been a nightmare since, or you have to think and speak highly of them forever more.

[joffaboy]

[Did he 'sue' though, or just 'claim' it?

Wasn't it owed to him? I didn't think he sued for damages or anything, I thought he just wanted what was legally owed to him?


Because if that's the case, then I think there's a difference. If it was owed to him, then surely no one can expect him to donate $200k to the club! No matter how much he says he loves the joint!

I suppose it doesn't matter - semantics over the word suing doesn't help.

Court found he was entitled to $200k. I doubt many on here owed $200k after being sacked would not seek it out of loyalty to that employer.

Allegedly GT had plenty of debts at the time and the $200k would have paid a % of those off.

I remember he had to pay back $1 mill to Butters, so the $200k is small fry in comparision.

[Junction Oval]

In Part, Dr Spacemenr commented :

He did some good things for the club and would have been upset at his dismissal. Fair enough. But he did quite well out of his years as coach and to sue the club for hundreds of thousands of dollars was pretty poor form IMO.

I wonder why things could not have been quietly settled on this matter? Club and Coach wer obviously in serious dispute. Me thinks other factors were behind this. Why the Club ever allowed it to go to Court, I will never know![/quote]

[joffaboy]

In Part, Dr Spacemenr commented :

He did some good things for the club and would have been upset at his dismissal. Fair enough. But he did quite well out of his years as coach and to sue the club for hundreds of thousands of dollars was pretty poor form IMO.

I wonder why things could not have been quietly settled on this matter? Club and Coach wer obviously in serious dispute. Me thinks other factors were behind this. Why the Club ever allowed it to go to Court, I will never know!

[/quote]

they probably thought he wasn't entitled to it.

[Johnny Member]

He was an OK coach who delivered a nice looking brand of football. Didn't quite stand up in finals but with luck and less injuries we could have at least made one GF under GT.

I reckon it was more than just 'nice looking' though.

We were a defensive beast when we were fit!

For mine, I think the fact we won a final with bad injuries, then were in a Prelim up to 3/4 time with horror injuries sort of leans towards the fact that the style of play/game plan was pretty sound.

The following year in 06 was even worse as far as injuries go! But we still played finals and had we not lost 3-4 during the game (Gehrig, Harvey, X, Kosi) we would have won a final that year too.


History shows that it's incredibly rare for teams that have terrible runs of injury don't get close to the finals. But we did twice, and competed well too!

[Johnny Member]

I suppose it doesn't matter - semantics over the word suing doesn't help.

Court found he was entitled to $200k. I doubt many on here owed $200k after being sacked would not seek it out of loyalty to that employer.

Allegedly GT had plenty of debts at the time and the $200k would have paid a % of those off.

I remember he had to pay back $1 mill to Butters, so the $200k is small fry in comparision.

It's not so much the word 'suing' that matters. It's more that he was going after something that was actually his - as opposed to going after damages and other stuff.


When the 'suing' thing comes in arguments, it's put out there like he tried to take the club to the cleaners and screw them for everything they were worth!
But my understanding is that he just wanted what was his, and the only reason it went to court was because they wouldn't pay him.


Anyway, I don't really know the ins and outs of it all.

[joffaboy]

I suppose it doesn't matter - semantics over the word suing doesn't help.

Court found he was entitled to $200k. I doubt many on here owed $200k after being sacked would not seek it out of loyalty to that employer.

Allegedly GT had plenty of debts at the time and the $200k would have paid a % of those off.

I remember he had to pay back $1 mill to Butters, so the $200k is small fry in comparision.

It's not so much the word 'suing' that matters. It's more that he was going after something that was actually his - as opposed to going after damages and other stuff.


When the 'suing' thing comes in arguments, it's put out there like he tried to take the club to the cleaners and screw them for everything they were worth!
But my understanding is that he just wanted what was his, and the only reason it went to court was because they wouldn't pay him.


Anyway, I don't really know the ins and outs of it all.

No either am I. I think he had to sue to claim his entitlements. The court found in his favour after weighing the evidence and he was awarded something like $200k.

Fair enough, I'll go with the independant umpires decision.

I was critical of GT on occasion, was not unhappy when he was sacked (not really happy either, Butters should have gone as well) but could recognise that he wasn't the evil genius some made him out to be.

Maybe a divisive and polarising figure, but still his influence on the STKFC was more positive than negative.

As for the game plan. Well we will have to agree to differ, I didn't really think it was very defensive. It was miles more attractive than the current gameplan. The only difference is that Lyon's gave us two shots at a flag, unfortunately GT's fell short (granted with monumental injuries).

[Dr Spaceman]

I suppose it doesn't matter - semantics over the word suing doesn't help.

Court found he was entitled to $200k. I doubt many on here owed $200k after being sacked would not seek it out of loyalty to that employer.

Allegedly GT had plenty of debts at the time and the $200k would have paid a % of those off.

I remember he had to pay back $1 mill to Butters, so the $200k is small fry in comparision.

It's not so much the word 'suing' that matters. It's more that he was going after something that was actually his - as opposed to going after damages and other stuff.

When the 'suing' thing comes in arguments, it's put out there like he tried to take the club to the cleaners and screw them for everything they were worth!
But my understanding is that he just wanted what was his, and the only reason it went to court was because they wouldn't pay him.

Anyway, I don't really know the ins and outs of it all.

And none of us do JM.

However unless those running the club are/were completely incompetent, then you'd have to think GT's entitlements had a shade of grey amongst the black and white.