Raph
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- Saintsational Legend
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I'm neither a Raph lover or hater. He has played some great games for the club, and in fact I had so much confidence that this would be his break out year that I picked him in my SC team.
1st rd he was good. Rd 2 only just passable. 3rd rd - abysmal. I watched from the 3rd level for the first time in ages which probably gives you a better perspective of how the play is unfolding. He was indecisive, slow, and was one of the worst offenders of the handball happy brigade. He looked petrified to kick the thing. He is very much a confidence player, and at the moment his confidence is down, way down.
Gwilt wasn't much better, but for mine has more credits in the bank after last year, particularly the GF's. I have voiced my skepticism re Lynch many times before, but why keep him on the list if he performs and he's not picked? Has performed 2 weeks in a row in the magoos by all reports, therefore deserves a go. I would drop Raph.
1st rd he was good. Rd 2 only just passable. 3rd rd - abysmal. I watched from the 3rd level for the first time in ages which probably gives you a better perspective of how the play is unfolding. He was indecisive, slow, and was one of the worst offenders of the handball happy brigade. He looked petrified to kick the thing. He is very much a confidence player, and at the moment his confidence is down, way down.
Gwilt wasn't much better, but for mine has more credits in the bank after last year, particularly the GF's. I have voiced my skepticism re Lynch many times before, but why keep him on the list if he performs and he's not picked? Has performed 2 weeks in a row in the magoos by all reports, therefore deserves a go. I would drop Raph.
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If the reports that Lynch has grown to 194cm (which is taller than Blake, Fisher and Gwilt) are correct, it's fair to say he's probably not suited to be the "Baker replacement", unless we want the tallest backline ever.gringo wrote:Lynch who is possibly more a Baker replacement, only Simpkin is left to come in that could play as a tall back.
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YOU GET WHAT YOU SETTLE FOR.
- Bernard Shakey
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He hasn't had eight years as is being touted here. We are three games into his eighth year with the Saints. More than a couple of those years have been marred by injury. I believe that if Raph can stay healthy, we will see the form we saw last year, which we need badly this year.
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- ralphsmith
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- White Winmar
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Sorry BS but he's had eight pre-seasons and he is 5 months into his eighth season at the club when you take the pre-season into account.
O.K., at a stretch he's been there for eight preseasons and is 7.5 years into his career. How long does he get? You're clutching at straws. He ain't going to get better and on demonstrated form, he just ain't good enough. I'd love you to be my boss. Eight under performing years and more chances? Where do I sign? Or do I just join the public service?
O.K., at a stretch he's been there for eight preseasons and is 7.5 years into his career. How long does he get? You're clutching at straws. He ain't going to get better and on demonstrated form, he just ain't good enough. I'd love you to be my boss. Eight under performing years and more chances? Where do I sign? Or do I just join the public service?
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- Bernard Shakey
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He has never been as bad as most whinging supporters would have you believe. We must have the biggest pack of whingers of all time.White Winmar wrote:Sorry BS but he's had eight pre-seasons and he is 5 months into his eighth season at the club when you take the pre-season into account.
O.K., at a stretch he's been there for eight preseasons and is 7.5 years into his career. How long does he get? You're clutching at straws. He ain't going to get better and on demonstrated form, he just ain't good enough. I'd love you to be my boss. Eight under performing years and more chances? Where do I sign? Or do I just join the public service?
I'd rather have the ball in Raph's hands than Gram's.
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- Dr Spaceman
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Raph has no trade value. Are you suggesting we simply delist him a la Shane Wakelin?White Winmar wrote:Sorry BS but he's had eight pre-seasons and he is 5 months into his eighth season at the club when you take the pre-season into account.
O.K., at a stretch he's been there for eight preseasons and is 7.5 years into his career. How long does he get? You're clutching at straws. He ain't going to get better and on demonstrated form, he just ain't good enough. I'd love you to be my boss. Eight under performing years and more chances? Where do I sign? Or do I just join the public service?
In the end all this talk is irrelevant. Only 3 rounds have been played and there's a minimum 19 to go before any decision to retain/trade/delist is made on any player.
Raph's future at St Kilda will be decided more by what he does in those 19 games than by what he's done in the previous 7.5 years
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- bigred
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Agreed. If he breaks down again its curtains.Dr Spaceman wrote:Raph has no trade value. Are you suggesting we simply delist him a la Shane Wakelin?White Winmar wrote:Sorry BS but he's had eight pre-seasons and he is 5 months into his eighth season at the club when you take the pre-season into account.
O.K., at a stretch he's been there for eight preseasons and is 7.5 years into his career. How long does he get? You're clutching at straws. He ain't going to get better and on demonstrated form, he just ain't good enough. I'd love you to be my boss. Eight under performing years and more chances? Where do I sign? Or do I just join the public service?
In the end all this talk is irrelevant. Only 3 rounds have been played and there's a minimum 19 to go before any decision to retain/trade/delist is made on any player.
Raph's future at St Kilda will be decided more by what he does in those 19 games than by what he's done in the previous 7.5 years
If he cannot play consistent good football I can see him being delisted.
Trade value? Well really you would have to say Nil. I cannot recall a player being universally panned as much as Raph has. I dare say that St.Kilda supporters in general are responsible for this. Would take a coach with absolute complete confidence in his ability to take that punt.
You are spot on in regards to the next 19 rounds being his most important. There are others in the same situation also.
You see glimpses with Raph. And only glimpses. The odd passage of play in the past few years. But it is never sustained. He has the natural ability and talent but it seems to just desert him.
I've been a supporter of his for years. Backed him in against a flood of abuse...but sheesh he has run out of time. He is the only one that can do anything about it.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
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Our rucks being thrashed, our lazy mid-field being slaughtered and our attack non existant meant our defence was under extreme pressure.
And they had Ryder to contend with.
So we had players up to attempt to spoil him - including Clarke backing into the contest on numerous occasions trying to put a fist on the pill.
This is not how he plays his best footy - which we saw on display until injured last season.
I didn't think any of our defenders had a great game v. Essendon - in fact I don't think we had one "winning" player on the night.
As we improve as a team - hopefully, because we have the cattle - and pressure is built around the ground, our defenders will improve.
The real problem we had was that the comprehensive thrashing by Essendon (again) found our defenders who can actually rebound back in the defensive 50 countering not only their opponent but other Essendon players - and not countering some such as Watson who took 3 uncontested chest marks in the F50 for 3 goals.
That was a measure of the comprehensive thrashing - and the disruption to our defence.
I would not consider replacing Clarke with Blake because that will only make our defence more static - as with Baker.
Like for like in terms of taking an opponent is Dempster - and Clarke wins that hands down.
When you have to go back on someone else's opponent and when you get the pill and look to see no St Kilda player making position to receive up the ground a player looks bad - and that was the assessment v. Essendon.
Look at the team performance.
That said, I still worry about Dawson (looks timid and frail therefore not an aggressive leader you like to see in the key defensive positions) and I think our 30 years olds (ex Hayes who is class) have had their day - along with Dempster and McQualter and Gamble and the like.
The positive is Armitage, Smith, Steven and Stanley - plus there are Lynch, Simpkin and Johnson - and the kids we drafted because we went for medium/small quicks to fix a problem the trading for Lovett and the trading for Peake confirmed.
And they had Ryder to contend with.
So we had players up to attempt to spoil him - including Clarke backing into the contest on numerous occasions trying to put a fist on the pill.
This is not how he plays his best footy - which we saw on display until injured last season.
I didn't think any of our defenders had a great game v. Essendon - in fact I don't think we had one "winning" player on the night.
As we improve as a team - hopefully, because we have the cattle - and pressure is built around the ground, our defenders will improve.
The real problem we had was that the comprehensive thrashing by Essendon (again) found our defenders who can actually rebound back in the defensive 50 countering not only their opponent but other Essendon players - and not countering some such as Watson who took 3 uncontested chest marks in the F50 for 3 goals.
That was a measure of the comprehensive thrashing - and the disruption to our defence.
I would not consider replacing Clarke with Blake because that will only make our defence more static - as with Baker.
Like for like in terms of taking an opponent is Dempster - and Clarke wins that hands down.
When you have to go back on someone else's opponent and when you get the pill and look to see no St Kilda player making position to receive up the ground a player looks bad - and that was the assessment v. Essendon.
Look at the team performance.
That said, I still worry about Dawson (looks timid and frail therefore not an aggressive leader you like to see in the key defensive positions) and I think our 30 years olds (ex Hayes who is class) have had their day - along with Dempster and McQualter and Gamble and the like.
The positive is Armitage, Smith, Steven and Stanley - plus there are Lynch, Simpkin and Johnson - and the kids we drafted because we went for medium/small quicks to fix a problem the trading for Lovett and the trading for Peake confirmed.
Raph, Gamble and Peake and playing seconds this weekend so it looks like they won't play seniors on Thursday.
Gamble and Peake deserve to get dropped. Raph when up and playing with confidence is a really good player. He hasn't shown it enough but is worth persisting with as his best is very good. Gamble and Peake's best is just adequate in my opinion.
Cheers.
Gamble and Peake deserve to get dropped. Raph when up and playing with confidence is a really good player. He hasn't shown it enough but is worth persisting with as his best is very good. Gamble and Peake's best is just adequate in my opinion.
Cheers.
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This from Herald Sun this morning.DK27 wrote:Raph, Gamble and Peake and playing seconds this weekend so it looks like they won't play seniors on Thursday.
Under VFL rules, the Saints can't send struggling players back to regain form with affiliate Sandringham on Sunday
Not sure where you're getting info from DK27 but it doesn't appear the players you have mentioned will be playing with Sandy this weekend.
they're named in the vfl side. the conclusion we've come to seems to be that players dropped to sandy this week can't then play for st kilda the week after.Moods wrote:Not sure where you're getting info from DK27 but it doesn't appear the players you have mentioned will be playing with Sandy this weekend.
- Dr Spaceman
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It's all a bit confusing but that certainly makes sense.bergholt wrote:they're named in the vfl side. the conclusion we've come to seems to be that players dropped to sandy this week can't then play for st kilda the week after.Moods wrote:Not sure where you're getting info from DK27 but it doesn't appear the players you have mentioned will be playing with Sandy this weekend.
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Remember that Clarke had a similar injury to Riewoldt in the second half of last season (v Fremantle?) - so he has had a limited preparation with few (if any) pre-season games.
He did not appear in the NAB Cup.
A case may have been made that his match fitness is lacking because of these circumstances - and approvals may have been obtained on that basis.
He did not appear in the NAB Cup.
A case may have been made that his match fitness is lacking because of these circumstances - and approvals may have been obtained on that basis.
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- Dr Spaceman
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Clarke had a FULL pre season.....he was injured R9 last year......by the start of preseason he had 22 weeks to recover.....he played in all preseason matches......he played well in two of them....it has been 11 months since his injury.....plenty of time to recover
No excuses for a 26yo player in his 8th season....if he cannot be a regular, he is a liability
No excuses for a 26yo player in his 8th season....if he cannot be a regular, he is a liability
- Dr Spaceman
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Why are some people so hell bent on marking his papers now when there's a minimum of 19 games to go before the club can make any decision on himBigMart wrote:Clarke had a FULL pre season.....he was injured R9 last year......by the start of preseason he had 22 weeks to recover.....he played in all preseason matches......he played well in two of them....it has been 11 months since his injury.....plenty of time to recover
No excuses for a 26yo player in his 8th season....if he cannot be a regular, he is a liability
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- desertsaint
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really wanted him to succeed, but gave up a few years ago. don't blame him for the geelong loss - he never should have been matched against byrnes - but it was clearly the biggest mismatch in the game and cost us the game. it gave geelong an easy avenue which they exploited.
no trade value - but no playing value either - why keep him?
no trade value - but no playing value either - why keep him?
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
Is his general lack of awareness cause by a conservative gp which requires him to be more concerned with taking the pecentage option, rather than the instinctive one......he seems so worried about making mistakes he second guesses himself, and gets caught...or puts himself under pressure....
Also putting him fwd actually puts more pressure on him......harder for a fwd to get a kick than a defender
Also putting him fwd actually puts more pressure on him......harder for a fwd to get a kick than a defender