Do we rebuild now?

[MCG-Unit]

.....Midfield is also what we need .

I don't think however we have any in and under types pushing up.

Tom Curren might be the only one from this years drafts, but he's only a rookie (and Polo who is injured)

[plugger66]

.....Midfield is also what we need .

I don't think however we have any in and under types pushing up.

Tom Curren might be the only one from this years drafts, but he's only a rookie (and Polo who is injured)

I reckon you are closer to playing than Tom Curren. None of these young guys will help us this year. They are about 3-4 years time.

[MCG-Unit]

.....Midfield is also what we need .

I don't think however we have any in and under types pushing up.

Tom Curren might be the only one from this years drafts, but he's only a rookie (and Polo who is injured)

I reckon you are closer to playing than Tom Curren. None of these young guys will help us this year. They are about 3-4 years time.

Well if they depend on me, there's totally no hope.

I just meant that from what I've read and heard, Curren might be an in and under type, along with Polo, as the poster was asking.

It's a shame, I didn't know Curren was that far off P66

[plugger66]

.....Midfield is also what we need .

I don't think however we have any in and under types pushing up.

Tom Curren might be the only one from this years drafts, but he's only a rookie (and Polo who is injured)

I reckon you are closer to playing than Tom Curren. None of these young guys will help us this year. They are about 3-4 years time.

Well if they depend on me, there's totally no hope.

I just meant that from what I've read and heard, Curren might be an in and under type, along with Polo, as the poster was asking.

It's a shame, I didn't know Curren was that far off P66

Actually I just thought you were a star.

[MCG-Unit]

.....Midfield is also what we need .

I don't think however we have any in and under types pushing up.

Tom Curren might be the only one from this years drafts, but he's only a rookie (and Polo who is injured)

I reckon you are closer to playing than Tom Curren. None of these young guys will help us this year. They are about 3-4 years time.

Well if they depend on me, there's totally no hope.

I just meant that from what I've read and heard, Curren might be an in and under type, along with Polo, as the poster was asking.

It's a shame, I didn't know Curren was that far off P66

Actually I just thought you were a star.

Ha ha not even on the brightest night

[SainterK]

Does anyone think if Schneider and Kosi were available we would have lost the first 2 games? I don't, the current panic is over the top.

Good point.

But against the Cats to balance that they had no Chapman and Selwood.

Cats are playing very well, a win is Subi without Selwood, Scarlett and others is significant.

I think it's early in the season to evaluate our opposition, the ladder could be looking very different to what people anticipated.

Agree of course with PJ on the stuctured forward line being significant, as I mentioned on another thread, just watch the first quarter again. When it was Roo and Gilbert tall, Gamble as a third, and Milne in form it was lovely to watch.

I can't wait to see that much entry with a proper forward line for 4 quarters, without all the chopping and changing.

[groupie1]

I don't think it's a total rebuild. I think we enjoy this year. Let the players play with some freedom and blood 4 or 5 young kids. Let the boys refresh mentally and enjoy their footy for a massive assault with a newish team in 2012 and 2013.

here, here

[PJ]

This is probably pluggers most poigniant post - if you watched the gold coast going around last night it was evident that no matter how many exceptional draft picks they had, and there were plenty, it didn't match the hardened experienced bodies that Carlton put up. If as some are suggesting (B4E) you are to introduce 6 kids we are on a road to pain and the bottom of the ladder no question.

Sensible suggestions please not histerical, emotional ranting. RL will get our team up and running have a little patience and faith.

[groupie1]

This is probably pluggers most poigniant post - if you watched the gold coast going around last night it was evident that no matter how many exceptional draft picks they had, and there were plenty, it didn't match the hardened experienced bodies that Carlton put up. If as some are suggesting (B4E) you are to introduce 6 kids we are on a road to pain and the bottom of the ladder no question.

Sensible suggestions please not histerical, emotional ranting. RL will get our team up and running have a little patience and faith.

How about this for sensible - We won't win the flag this year without Lenny. This is an arguable point, but let's allow this assumption to hold for a minute. If we won't win the flag, finishing 2nd or 16th, who cares? So spend 2011 getting games into kids, ushering wavering clubmen into retirement, tinkering with game plans, trying things out, experimenting, sort the men from the boys, rest Reiwoldt a bit, clear out the deadwood at the end of the year, get Gilbert and Jones to work on their kicking, and if we finish 16th - great. Not as great as in the past of course, but for draft picks better than finishing 2nd.
Go into 2012 with a romping pre-season hopefully without distraction, fresh experienced legs, 20-game legs in the kids, the likes of Peake and MaQ out the door, the likes of Blake and probably Baker retired after wonderful careers, slot Kenny back in and kick arse after Collingwood is hopefully a spent force, Geelong on the wane, and a resurgent St Kilda having had a 12-month mental break from the rigours of finishing 2nd two years in a row.

Does this not seem like a plan? We wouldn't be the first team in the league to go into a season thinking about the next or the next one.

[plugger66]

This is probably pluggers most poigniant post - if you watched the gold coast going around last night it was evident that no matter how many exceptional draft picks they had, and there were plenty, it didn't match the hardened experienced bodies that Carlton put up. If as some are suggesting (B4E) you are to introduce 6 kids we are on a road to pain and the bottom of the ladder no question.

Sensible suggestions please not histerical, emotional ranting. RL will get our team up and running have a little patience and faith.

How about this for sensible - We won't win the flag this year without Lenny. This is an arguable point, but let's allow this assumption to hold for a minute. If we won't win the flag, finishing 2nd or 16th, who cares? So spend 2011 getting games into kids, ushering wavering clubmen into retirement, tinkering with game plans, trying things out, experimenting, sort the men from the boys, rest Reiwoldt a bit, clear out the deadwood at the end of the year, get Gilbert and Jones to work on their kicking, and if we finish 16th - great. Not as great as in the past of course, but for draft picks better than finishing 2nd.
Go into 2012 with a romping pre-season hopefully without distraction, fresh experienced legs, 20-game legs in the kids, the likes of Peake and MaQ out the door, the likes of Blake and probably Baker retired after wonderful careers, slot Kenny back in and kick arse after Collingwood is hopefully a spent force, Geelong on the wane, and a resurgent St Kilda having had a 12-month mental break from the rigours of finishing 2nd two years in a row.

Does this not seem like a plan? We wouldn't be the first team in the league to go into a season thinking about the next or the next one.

But we would be the clearly the first after a draw and a loss by a point after playing in the GF 3 games ago. Anyway geting 10-15 games into these guys will not help because next year we will have Lenny not at his best, Milney even closer to retirment, Rooy not improving becuse of the bettering his body has copped, Fisher because of age will not improve and Dal, BJ and Joey stagnant because they probably cant improve further. Yes the young guys will be slightly better but if your stars go backwards well there is no way we would make the GF.

Can we at least wait a game or two before we completely give up.

[groupie1]

Not a total rebuild ATM but 2 to 4 new faces can do wonders to refresh a team. So if Cripps, Ledger, Winmar, Steven & Stanley etc can come on a bit you could see a real different looking team in 6 weeks from now. But Ross needs to bite the bullet and commit to playing these players now and we need to move on from Peake, Mini, Dempster.

That's what Collingwood did after we beat them in round 3 2010 and lets face it the players Malthouse left out, Lockyer, O'Bree & Medhurst etc. would still be getting a game at St.Kida now under RL or at least they definately would have last year.

So I agree with your point Plugger not a total rebuild but I think we need a 'mini refresh' (could be a new Rossism')

+ 1. It's not quite time to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet.
We need to win at least one of the next 3, though, and be improving noticeably over those weeks, to still be a chance this year.

Disagree. The bathwater's gone and won't be back until 2012. No reason not to throw the baby out with it and get games into young legs.

[groupie1]

Plus there is a point we're all missing in this talk of Maq, Eddy, Blake and co took us almost to 2 premierships.

If I accept we could easily have won two premierships, the fact remains 2010 we were nowhere near as good as 2009. We are fading. This current team is not getting better, so changes are inevitable, and, in my opinion, rather urgent. There is a market out there for good footballers. I'm surprised Geary and Armitage are still with us, for example, and how long do we think Tom Lynch will be prepared to wait while he sees the ins and outs of Charlie Gardiner and Ryan Gamble? No joke, how good would GWS's offer have to be to lure him away? A case of beer and some pocket money, but at least we'll give you a game, son; we'll sell you BACK to St Kilda in two years as a 50-gamer at an inflated price.

But that's besides even my point. We were great in 2009; we ground our way to a GF in 2010; if not for Lenny and Goddard and their super-human efforts we would have gotten flogged; we ended up being flogged.

Ball use and speed have always been this team's problem, and Collingwood exposed it manifestly last year. Writing's on the wall. This team will not win a premiership.

And if a premiership is what we want, might as well make all the changes and mistakes in 2011 to get set for a thumping 2012.

[spert]

Plodders like Geary and Eddy wont take us the next step, and from what I saw at Sandy yesterday, the new bunch of recruits have real promise but are a couple of years off senior standard (but a couple could get a game or two for experience in the seniors this year.. I hope). Lynch should seriously be considered as the next backline candidate, Stanley didn't impress me at all in the ruck -no idea how to use his body, Heyne didn't do much to say he wanted a senior game, and it all fades away after that. Steven definately earned a senior game yesterday and he and McQaulter are probably fighting for the same position. As far as finals go, all we needed in 2009 and 2010 GFs was one of our key forwards to at least make some kind of contribution- they didn't and it's all history.

[BigMart]

Harsh on geary yesterday....he broke his leg early...

[BigMart]

Jonesy....some would argue, eddy and mini were underperforming and being gifted games....gram was also running at less than 70% after injury....

One different selection would have made a difference.....

Would you have liked the strong body of armitage with his attack on the footy in the heat of a gf?

[BigMart]

Wrong thread....that was about armo