BJ in right spot - now leave him there!

[dcstkfc]

+1. Beautifully put. Please forward it on to Ross & co.
Exactly what I'm hoping. They've been beating around the bush trying out pretty much any and everyone else and now they need to get serious.
He's the only one that's looked like doing a good job up there and there are definitely plenty that can do a good enough job down back and in the middle.
Unless we prefer losing and kicking 5 or 6 goals a game.

+2

[mad saint guy]

He's not a permanent forward and never will be. He is just ok as a lead up tall forward and would probably get 40 goals if he spent all year there. However he is absolutely brilliant as a half back/midfielder and gives much, much more to the team when he's setting up the play. By all means; swing him forward occasionally when we need a boost or can get a mis-match in size, but he IS wasted as a permanent forward. He doesn't have the pace/size/marking ability to regularly beat the opposition's best defenders as Roo does.

Goddard getting 3 goals from 12 possessions is a significantly worse result than him racking up 30 disposals, since he's likely to set up/kick a couple anyway and has a huge impact over the ground.

[35...LEGEND]

He's not a permanent forward and never will be. He is just ok as a lead up tall forward and would probably get 40 goals if he spent all year there. However he is absolutely brilliant as a half back/midfielder and gives much, much more to the team when he's setting up the play. By all means; swing him forward occasionally when we need a boost or can get a mis-match in size, but he IS wasted as a permanent forward. He doesn't have the pace/size/marking ability to regularly beat the opposition's best defenders as Roo does.

Goddard getting 3 goals from 12 possessions is a significantly worse result than him racking up 30 disposals, since he's likely to set up/kick a couple anyway and has a huge impact over the ground.

Agree..........rotate with the Ray Ray in the pocket.................with Ray Ray doing the bulk of the forward work,this bloke can take a grab.......BJ down there for 8-12 min a qtr.....that's my wish anyway.

[bigcarl]

Please play BJ mainly on the ball otherwise with our lack on star onballers we will struggle to get good possesion up forward.

who is going to kick the goals? 15th for shots at goal per inside 50 entry. 16th for goals per inside 50 entry. damning stats. kosi inside the arc simply is not working.

i'd be surprised if he plays "mainly on the ball".

[PJ]

Please play BJ mainly on the ball otherwise with our lack on star onballers we will struggle to get good possesion up forward.

Even lately when he's paying as an onballer we are struggling to get any effective entry.

[SainterK]

Please play BJ mainly on the ball otherwise with our lack on star onballers we will struggle to get good possesion up forward.

Even lately when he's paying as an onballer we are struggling to get any effective entry.

That, is a very good point...

[bigcarl]

Please play BJ mainly on the ball otherwise with our lack on star onballers we will struggle to get good possesion up forward.

Even lately when he's paying as an onballer we are struggling to get any effective entry.

That, is a very good point...

It's because the guy on the end of it (Kosi) is out of form. He's effective when Riewoldt is drawing the best two defenders, but is not a No.1 forward. You've got to give them something up forward and he's not.

[SainterK]

Please play BJ mainly on the ball otherwise with our lack on star onballers we will struggle to get good possesion up forward.

Even lately when he's paying as an onballer we are struggling to get any effective entry.

That, is a very good point...

It's because the guy on the end of it (Kosi) is out of form. He's effective when Riewoldt is drawing the best two defenders, but is not a No.1 forward. You've got to give them something up forward and he's not.

So your saying our inside 50 count is incredibly low, because they have nobody to kick it to?

I think you are pumping the midfields tyres a little there bigcarl, not sure they have been in as good form as you're making out.

However, I admire your consistency in making your point

[bigcarl]

So your saying our inside 50 count is incredibly low, because they have nobody to kick it to?

i'm not sure it as as low as you seem to think. but once it gets there our efficiency is the worst in the competition.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

He's not a permanent forward and never will be. He is just ok as a lead up tall forward and would probably get 40 goals if he spent all year there. However he is absolutely brilliant as a half back/midfielder and gives much, much more to the team when he's setting up the play. By all means; swing him forward occasionally when we need a boost or can get a mis-match in size, but he IS wasted as a permanent forward. He doesn't have the pace/size/marking ability to regularly beat the opposition's best defenders as Roo does.

Goddard getting 3 goals from 12 possessions is a significantly worse result than him racking up 30 disposals, since he's likely to set up/kick a couple anyway and has a huge impact over the ground.

You've got to be kidding me. He could play permanent forward on his ear. Especially once he got more used to playing that role. And especially if he played the same sort of role James Hird played for most of his career (forward flank/CHF/"floating forward"). Or that Hamill did for us. I'd back him to easily get 40+ a year there and put it on a plate for Roo and Kosi time after time, especially with long kicks over the back, to them in the goalsquare. And he showed in the Freo game, when he was taking extremely strong contested marks and beating one of the best at full back in the league (Luke McPharlin), that he can also play well at full forward. He's also showed that in other matches, like against North this year and Melbourne and West Coast last year.
He leads very strongly and his "footy smarts" are as good as anyone, so he knows when and where to lead and how to use his body to advantage. I've watched him closely when he has played there and it's a joy to watch. And I expect it would only get better with more time there. His ability to take "hangers" also wouldn't go astray up there. Then there's his ability to get it once it hits the ground. And finally there's his ability to kick straight. He'd be like our (slightly lighter, not quite as strong) version of a Daniel Bradshaw, who's a very similar size to him. Of course we'd need to clear some space for him to lead into, though (like guys like Fev and Bradshaw get) and it would be no good just frequently bombing it on his head, like we do to Roo and Kosi, who are taller.
Of course I wouldn't expect him to do as well in that role as Roo, but who does? He would do it slightly differently, though and I think it's safe to say that he'd average more than 12 possies a game there.
I don't think he's ever played more than a half of a game in the forward line and yet he's had 4 and 5 goal games, one of which was kicked during the one and only quarter he played forward. And lets not forget, he's taller than the likes of Dunstall, Brereton, Hird, Ablett (senior), Terry Daniher and Sammy Hamill, who did alright forward.
He looks as natural in the forward line to me as just about anyone I've seen.
As for him playing across half back on a regular basis, I think/hope those days are well and truly behind him. Hopefully guys like Ray, the Sam's, Gwilt (who was doing really well there, before they put him back forward the past two weeks- where he did very little, again) and hopefully Jesse Smith will do the job there.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Please play BJ mainly on the ball otherwise with our lack of star onballers we will struggle to get good possesion up forward.

That's true. I didn't think of that.
If only we had guys the calibre of a Lenny Hayes, or a Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, or Jason Gram. Getting help from someone like a Clint Jones, Farren Ray, or a David Armitage.
Dammit.

[plugger66]

Please play BJ mainly on the ball otherwise with our lack of star onballers we will struggle to get good possesion up forward.

That's true. I didn't think of that.
If only we had guys the calibre of a Lenny Hayes, or a Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, or Jason Gram. Getting help from someone like a Clint Jones, Farren Ray, or a David Armitage.
Dammit.

When did you last go to a game of footy? Obviously not in the last 3 weeks. Anyway i saw your lack of footy knowledge last year when you wanted to drop guys after one poor game of footy. It was very funny. Have you seen the Marx brothers because that had them covered.

[saintbrat]

http://www.aflrecord.com.au/displayrecord/id/40
Record is available on line for free

BJ article page 28/29 and onwards.

[SainterK]

So your saying our inside 50 count is incredibly low, because they have nobody to kick it to?

i'm not sure it as as low as you seem to think. but once it gets there our efficiency is the worst in the competition.

13th ahead of (adel, rich, north) on 328, compared to Collingwood on 495...

Could go in there a lot of more often.

[bigcarl]

So your saying our inside 50 count is incredibly low, because they have nobody to kick it to?

i'm not sure it as as low as you seem to think. but once it gets there our efficiency is the worst in the competition.

13th ahead of (adel, rich, north) on 328, compared to Collingwood on 495...

Could go in there a lot of more often.

it will if they get a return for their effort from the forwards. there would then be a reward for getting it in quickly. instead, it sails straight back over their heads.

[SainterK]

So your saying our inside 50 count is incredibly low, because they have nobody to kick it to?

i'm not sure it as as low as you seem to think. but once it gets there our efficiency is the worst in the competition.

13th ahead of (adel, rich, north) on 328, compared to Collingwood on 495...

Could go in there a lot of more often.

it will if they get a return for their effort from the forwards. there would then be a reward for getting it in quickly. instead, it sails straight back over their heads.

uh-huh

[bigcarl]

uh-huh

you can't see my logic, can you.

is it just a coincidence that we move the ball a lot quicker and with more confidence with a dangerous forward such as riewoldt presenting?

our general form since the freo game (when goddard played forward for more than a half) would suggest not.

[ace]

I didn't realise how ordinary the forward line is without Reiwoldt....

that also tells me the rest of the forwards are basically GOP's.....i would point out that Milne is excluded from GOP status.....

The recruiters have a huge task in front of them this year...if we don't improve our depth soon then they should be labelled as GOR's...

Good Ordinary Recruiters....

A club that expects rookies to turn in high quality players is kidding itself.
First and second round draft picks must deliver.
Geelong has no problem turning thse picks into quality players.
St Kilda has wasted too many of these picks on players who either diidn't deliver, broke down or deserted.
Being good, being very good does not win premierships, you have to be the very best.

[groupie1]

1. The notion that the midfield refuses to kick it forward because Roo is not there is obviously ridiculous.

2. Kozi, i have felt over the past 2 weeks, has made good position 4-5 times and just not taken the mark. He does get out-positioned, he's weak at ground level and slow, but he has found good space and done some solid body work to position himself well for the ball only to spill an easy mark. Why, I don't know, but you must reckon he's providing a reasonable, not great, forward target. And all it will take is for 75% of those marks to stick, 75% of them to be converted into goals, and he's kicking 2-3 a game and we're all happy.

3. Precision to our forwards has been patchy; again, those 4-5 marks Kozi keeps dropping are results of good ball use from the mids. Perhaps when our use improves so might he (of course, assuming he catches the ball)

4. The idea of playing Goddard forward all game is fine, and I think the comparison to him of Bradshaw is a good one. But we should imagine RL has a good idea of what he's doing structurally. I don't personally see how we don't any midfield going around without Goddard; therefore, play him forward. But.... I've never coached an AFL team so I wouldn't know.

[SainterK]

uh-huh

you can't see my logic, can you.

is it just a coincidence that we move the ball a lot quicker and with more confidence with a dangerous forward such as riewoldt presenting?

our general form since the freo game (when goddard played forward for more than a half) would suggest not.

Just a teasing a little bigcarl, I am feeling really comfortable with the forward set-up today for those very reasons.

I just maintain you are letting the midfield off too easy, they have not been in the kind of form we expect, that's all...

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Please play BJ mainly on the ball otherwise with our lack of star onballers we will struggle to get good possesion up forward.

That's true. I didn't think of that.
If only we had guys the calibre of a Lenny Hayes, or a Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, or Jason Gram. Getting help from someone like a Clint Jones, Farren Ray, or a David Armitage.
Dammit.

When did you last go to a game of footy? Obviously not in the last 3 weeks. Anyway i saw your lack of footy knowledge last year when you wanted to drop guys after one poor game of footy. It was very funny. Have you seen the Marx brothers because that had them covered.

Wrong yet again, 66, but good to see that small and closed mind is hard at work again. You know, you're not too old to learn new things. There are many ways to skin a cat. And he who laughs last, laughs loudest, not that I care in the slightest what you happen to think. I take it you have me confused with someone who does?
And if you want to talk about "funny", how about the fact that you seem to think we all care to hear your thoughts on it seems each and every thread here, even when you clearly have nothing but sarcasm to add. Now that is funny.

[spert]

Goddard can kick a goal because he is an elite player, but that does not mean he is a natural forward -his absolute best football is played from the back half where he seems to able to win contests better, and tends to deliver through the corridor by foot to half forward with accuracy coming off the half back line, something we are not getting very well from the back half and mids at the moment. I don't think Goddard has a good defensive game as a forward.

The backs and onballers are messing things up by stopping and slowing play down when they approach the forward line, and then tending to go wide too much..OK when you are well in front, but no good in the middle of a match.

The best way to get Kosi or any tall into the marking action is to deliver the ball fast down the middle rather than slow it down and fiddle around, which then means the opposition can drop in the hole in front of FF, and this also makes it hard for the crumbers when things get congested.

I have no doubt that RL needs to get the play back into the centre corridor, otherwise we will struggle to kick a competitive score.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Goddard can kick a goal because he is an elite player, but that does not mean he is a natural forward -his absolute best football is played from the back half where he seems to able to win contests better, and tends to deliver through the corridor by foot to half forward with accuracy coming off the half back line, something we are not getting very well from the back half and mids at the moment. I don't think Goddard has a good defensive game as a forward.

The backs and onballers are messing things up by stopping and slowing play down when they approach the forward line, and then tending to go wide too much..OK when you are well in front, but no good in the middle of a match.

The best way to get Kosi or any tall into the marking action is to deliver the ball fast down the middle rather than slow it down and fiddle around, which then means the opposition can drop in the hole in front of FF, and this also makes it hard for the crumbers when things get congested.

I have no doubt that RL needs to get the play back into the centre corridor, otherwise we will struggle to kick a competitive score.

Wouldn't it make sense that his best footy is played in the back half? I mean he's played 100 games of AFL, or however many it is, down there. He's played very little in the forward line. Most who have played their whole careers in the backline look like a "fish out of water", when they're thrown forward, but he's done extremely well, in usually very short opportunities. That's why I say he looks "natural". He looks right at home there, even though he's hardly played there and I imagine would look even more so, if he played there with some consistency.
Case in point: Sam Fisher. He's not looked comfortable there/done as well as he does down back, until this past game, where he started to look more like the gun he is down back. I expect that with more time there (and training with the forward group) he will do better and better and I'd say the same would be true of BJ. As well as he's done forward in short bursts, I expect he'd do better if he played there regularly and trained with the forward group.

[saintbrat]

Case in point: Sam Fisher. He's not looked comfortable there/done as well as he does down back, until this past game, where he started to look more like the gun he is down back. I expect that with more time there (and training with the forward group) he will do better and better and I'd say the same would be true of BJ. As well as he's done forward in short bursts, I expect he'd do better if he played there regularly and trained with the forward group.

http://www.saints.com.au/season2010/new ... fault.aspx

The 26-year-old has been spending time training with St Kilda’s forward group and has also had some helpful advice from the man whose shoes he is trying to fill.

“I train there during the week so I’m trying to learn the structures as best as possible," he said. "I work pretty hard with Leigh Tudor the forwards coach and I’m learning the role on the training track and trying to see as much vision as I can throughout the week. That’s how you learn it.

“I’ve spoken to Nick [Riewoldt] a few times about it. He’s such a great forward himself and you try to feed off those guys and learn different points.â€

[Milan Faletic]

We all know he is a great player whether he plays back, mid or forward. The back, mid and forwards coaches all want him and he has been getting shared around like a bong at a campfire.

The majority of us would probably say his optimal position for the team in a perfect world is across half-back setting up the play. Perfect world includes Riewoldt being fully fit of course.

But while he will be missed there and in the mid-field, his absence can be covered pretty satisfactorily.

Up forward it is a different matter. He is the only one to have shown he is really up to the task of filling some of the Riewoldt void. Given a full game in that position I reckon he can fill it very well.

He now has to play permanent forward in Rielwoldt's absence I think. Not with a run through the mid-field. Not with time down back being flogged to exhaustion. I want him peppy in the forward line, leading, demanding the ball, giving the team real confidence about going forward.

I hope this is what Ross meant went he promised not to continually shuffle backline through our forward line searching for a target. I really hope that BJ lines up in the named position and I don't find that CHF is filled by McEvoy and Gardiner all night.

Didn't I just post this thread two days ago?

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=61639