Anyone interested in what Grant Thomas thinks?

[meher baba]

So really GT has been equally evasive MB

In what way do you think the club has been evasive and touchy?

I take your jocular point: although I actually think GT was more muddled than evasive in the article.

In terms of the club: I think they want the AFL world to interpret what happened this way:

Ball was offered a reduced contract and didn't like it, so his manager found him a better one at Collingwood. In the end the club didn't think Ball was worth what the Pies were prepared to pay him, so we decided to try to trade him to the Pies. They wouldn't play nicely, so Ball and his manager than manipulated the draft system to ensure he got to Collingwood. So St Kilda behaved honourably at all times and are therefore the victims of greed and underhand tactics on the part of Ball, his manager and the Pies.

However, the club is only prepared to hint and insinuate that this was the story: culminating in Ross's Sir Humphy Appleby-like verbal convolutions about "relativities".

Why didn't we just come out and state that Collingwood offered Ball more money and then, to add insult to injury, colluded with Ball and his manager to ensure that St Kilda ended up without a trade for him? You'd think we'd whinge and complain a bit in the media, and have a go at our traditional rival club.

Why don't we complain publicly in this way, and choose instead simply to hint and obliquely insinuate about why Ball left?

Because the story didn't actually happen quite the way I've set it out above. There was a certain amount of pushing Ball out the door from our end, perhaps with some regrets once we realised that we weren't going to get anything for him, but with no serious attempts made to move an inch towards what he was asking for when there was still some chance of him wanting to stay.

It's not even clear that his contract at the Pies is actually worth much more than what he could have stayed for at the Saints (if it was still on the table during trade week, which I rather doubt because I have never heard anyone from the club state this unequivocally).

I'm over Ball, but I am concerned if the rather inept way he was handled is symptomatic of deeper problems at the club. I relieved to say that I don't think it is a symptom of anything: I think it was a one-off (we can perhaps say a "two-off" given the Lovett fiasco as well).

But it was definitely a stuff up by the club. That's becoming clearer every day that goes by.

[SainterK]

So really GT has been equally evasive MB

In what way do you think the club has been evasive and touchy?

I take your jocular point: although I actually think GT was more muddled than evasive in the article.

In terms of the club: I think they want the AFL world to interpret what happened this way:

Ball was offered a reduced contract and didn't like it, so his manager found him a better one at Collingwood. In the end the club didn't think Ball was worth what the Pies were prepared to pay him, so we decided to try to trade him to the Pies. They wouldn't play nicely, so Ball and his manager than manipulated the draft system to ensure he got to Collingwood. So St Kilda behaved honourably at all times and are therefore the victims of greed and underhand tactics on the part of Ball, his manager and the Pies.

However, the club is only prepared to hint and insinuate that this was the story: culminating in Ross's Sir Humphy Appleby-like verbal convolutions about "relativities".

Why didn't we just come out and state that Collingwood offered Ball more money and then, to add insult to injury, colluded with Ball and his manager to ensure that St Kilda ended up without a trade for him? You'd think we'd whinge and complain a bit in the media, and have a go at our traditional rival club.

Why don't we complain publicly in this way, and choose instead simply to hint and obliquely insinuate about why Ball left?

Because the story didn't actually happen quite the way I've set it out above. There was a certain amount of pushing Ball out the door from our end, perhaps with some regrets once we realised that we weren't going to get anything for him, but with no serious attempts made to move an inch towards what he was asking for when there was still some chance of him wanting to stay.

It's not even clear that his contract at the Pies is actually worth much more than what he could have stayed for at the Saints (if it was still on the table during trade week, which I rather doubt because I have never heard anyone from the club state this unequivocally).

I'm over Ball, but I am concerned if the rather inept way he was handled is symptomatic of deeper problems at the club. I relieved to say that I don't think it is a symptom of anything: I think it was a one-off (we can perhaps say a "two-off" given the Lovett fiasco as well).

But it was definitely a stuff up by the club. That's becoming clearer every day that goes by.

It's not like Ball has clarified his position at all, and he has been equally evasive. He chooses to remain silent, and the media world rallies to regard his motive as honourable.

Ross remains equally evasive, reluctant to talk about the finer details, and his motive is somehow less honourable?

If we were to be honest, wouldn't we agree that there has been a fair share of hints and insuations coming from Luke's direction?

[Eastern]

Back to the original question posted by SainterK !!

Interested enough to read the article. Don't feel any need to agree or disagree with it, but interested just the same !!

[barks4eva]

But it was definitely a stuff up by the club. That's becoming clearer every day that goes by.

How?

The one person who really stuffed up and created this mess to begin with was Grant Thomas who was responsible for over paying Ball a ridiculous $600,000 a year, more than Lenny Hayes at the time!

Ball's true worth is much less, "training services" saw to that!

Ball was offered a one million dollar plus contract over three years but refused to sign and walked!

Ball's perceptions of what he was worth differed to the clubs rating!

Ross Lyon told Ball he was in his best 22 and teammates and players tried to convince him to stay!

He walked, the club cannot be held to ransom over some mollycoddled, recalcitrant private schoolboy who thinks the sun shines out of his own arse!

Ross Lyon sets a standard and if some players don't measure up to that then so be it, but thankfully we have a coach setting standards and one who backs it up with substance and actions!

There is a thing called a salary cap and players have to be paid according to their true worth, the imbalance needed to be addressed and this didn't sit right with Ball even though he was still getting over one million for three years!

It was worth the gamble of not accepting the Collingwood offer, in the hope that Ball would come to his senses and be persuaded to stay!

Officials flew to New York to try and persuade him to change his mind, a meeting with Lyon and teammates pleading with him also had no affect, his mind was made up and the SMS was sent, > classy!

[saintsRrising]

Obviously Ross's mentors and advisors have convinced him that he urgently requires outside speed to take the next step towards a premiership.

mmm sour grapes there......

I will give GT a tip..RL is the one that sets the scene...

When RL FIRST started one of the criteria he stated he wanted was "more run through the middle"....

So hardly "urgently"...

You really do have issues dont you? For the sake of your sanity you need to let it go.

My point that you missed was that Lyon has been after more a pace since he started.

....and as for GT's jibe about lack of inside hardness.

FFS did the guy not watch any of our games last year?

Did he not see The StKilda Way of 4 quarters of grinding tough unrelenting football that ground opponents into submission.

Gone were the downhill skiers that would play a quarter here or there....brilliant to watch at times, but if the opposition blow torch was aplied we folded. The Saints are now the team with blow torch.

Maybe GT should check-out the tackle counts?

Connecting outside pace with a player or too with a demise of inside hardness is just utter rubbish.

Fiora was tried by Lyon in the role, did ok but then was discarded the next year because he could not deliver the St Kilda way for 4 quarters week in week out.

Armo will replace Ball. Lovett was not Ball's replacement.

[matrix]

bout time we had a thread to overtake the lovett greiv one
im predicting at least 32

[Eastern]

bout time we had a thread to overtake the lovett greiv one
im predicting at least 32

a pic of a sacred cow (or any cow) will ensure you get your wish !!

[stinger]

If we were to be honest, wouldn't we agree that there has been a fair share of hints and insuations coming from Luke's direction?

no...no way......luke doesn't have to justify his position to anybody ffs....he is a footballer...i presume he wants only to concentrate on the current season...and play good football...that would be what his club and his coach would want him to do also...imho..........st kilda on the other hand is answerable to it's members...and should be providing explanations...truthful ones...if it wants to keep it's members on side.....

[joffaboy]

Obviously Ross's mentors and advisors have convinced him that he urgently requires outside speed to take the next step towards a premiership. I will argue until the day I die that it is in fact "inside hardness" that wins premierships, not outside speed.

Meeooow!

Great that he knows what wins premierships, it was just bad luck that he never got a crack at one.

Was it bad luck or bad management?

cue matrix and his popcorn

[stinger]

some mollycoddled, recalcitrant private schoolboy who thinks the sun shines out of his own arse!

careful...your envy is showing barks....

[SainterK]

If we were to be honest, wouldn't we agree that there has been a fair share of hints and insuations coming from Luke's direction?

no...no way......luke doesn't have to justify his position to anybody ffs....he is a footballer...i presume he wants only to concentrate on the current season...and play good football...that would be what his club and his coach would want him to do also...imho..........st kilda on the other hand is answerable to it's members...and should be providing explanations...truthful ones...if it wants to keep it's members on side.....

Stinger, so you (and the footy world in it's entirety) wouldn't be very angry with Ross and the club if it offered explanations that may show Luke Ball in a bad light?

Oh, and who is no longer on St Kilda's side?

[meher baba]

some mollycoddled, recalcitrant private schoolboy who thinks the sun shines out of his own arse!

careful...your envy is showing barks....

At some private boarding schools, you'd have trouble working out if the sun shone out of any of the boy's arses unless you could get the teachers, priests or whoever out of them first.

George W Bush's education policy: No Child Left Behind, or in the case of the Catholics, the Latin construction "No Child's Behind Left"

[stinger]

i think you have hit the nail on the head there mate......a truthful explanation is going to piss members off...hence the guff and fluff put out by the club...didn't work.....many, many supporters are still pissed off.....fwiw...nothing the club could say would convince me to view luke in a negative fashion...i think i know by now what happened...so do all of us really.....some just won't let themselves acknowledge it......the club f***ed up...badly...as it did with lovett.....grant knows it...and said so...gently it would seem as i believe he would be in possession of a lot of inside information.....

[stinger]

some mollycoddled, recalcitrant private schoolboy who thinks the sun shines out of his own arse!

careful...your envy is showing barks....

At some private boarding schools, you'd have trouble working out if the sun shone out of any of the boy's arses unless you could get the teachers, priests or whoever out of them first.

George W Bush's education policy: No Child Left Behind, or in the case of the Catholics, the Latin construction "No Child's Behind Left"

i find that not the least bit funny mb and more than a bit offensive......i went to a catholic school...primary and secondary.....was an alter boy even at my local church......never ever heard of any boys being molested...nor saw any indication that such events were occuring...sure...history shows that it did ...no de la salle brothers involved as far as i know.....and certainly the priests...or more correctly...ministers of religion pinged lately have been mostly c of e.....not catholic....


and anyway...wtf does this all have to do with barks envy of luke balls education....ffs...

[SainterK]

i think you have hit the nail on the head there mate......a truthful explanation is going to piss members off...hence the guff and fluff put out by the club...didn't work.....many, many supporters are still pissed off.....fwiw...nothing the club could say would convince me to view luke in a negative fashion...i think i know by now what happened...so do all of us really.....some just won't let themselves acknowledge it......the club f***ed up...badly...as it did with lovett.....grant knows it...and said so...gently it would seem as i believe he would be in possession of a lot of inside information.....

I have hit the nail on the head, some people are just always angry

Sorry, not going to view the club in a bad light based on a "I think I know" which is really what you are admitting to.

[barks4eva]

If we were to be honest, wouldn't we agree that there has been a fair share of hints and insuations coming from Luke's direction?

no...no way......luke doesn't have to justify his position to anybody ffs....he is a footballer...i presume he wants only to concentrate on the current season...and play good football...that would be what his club and his coach would want him to do also...imho..........st kilda on the other hand is answerable to it's members...and should be providing explanations...truthful ones...if it wants to keep it's members on side.....

GET REAL!

The club have already offered the explanation!

Ross Lyon and the club have already said enough, relating to the salary cap and how sometimes a players perceptions of what he thinks he is worth sometimes does not correspond with what the club offers him!

So be it, end of story!

What else do you really expect the club to say, FAIR DINKUM........unless you have your head firmly implanted up your arse,........which you no doubt have,........ this is really all that needs to be said!

You obviously want to believe the spin from Paul Connors, Mike Sheahan, Eddie McGuire, Michael Malthouse etc...etc...

to the point of labeling Lyon and Riewoldt as being disingenuous at best,

but considering you believed everything that Grant Thomas said to be gospel, it shows what an absolute clueless and gullible nuffie you really are,........ this is hardly surprising!

Ball brought all of this upon himself, leaving aside Thomas's "training services" which reduced him to half the player he once was!

Get a clue sometime soon, would make for a pleasant change!

Why don't you sign up over on the filth forum, I'm sure you'll get a lot of clueless morons agreeing with you over there!

[barks4eva]

i think you have hit the nail on the head there mate......a truthful explanation is going to piss members off...hence the guff and fluff put out by the club...didn't work.....many, many supporters are still pissed off.....fwiw...nothing the club could say would convince me to view luke in a negative fashion...i think i know by now what happened...so do all of us really.....some just won't let themselves acknowledge it......the club f***ed up...badly...as it did with lovett.....grant knows it...and said so...gently it would seem as i believe he would be in possession of a lot of inside information.....

OH FFS, you really are an absolute idiot!

Piss off to the filth forum!

TRUTH, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Grant knows it


Thomas already said he does not know what went on behind closed doors and neither the **** do you, so stop slandering the club you clueless pissant!

[spert]

I still reckon Gwilt should play in the centre!

[joffaboy]

i think you have hit the nail on the head there mate......a truthful explanation is going to piss members off...hence the guff and fluff put out by the club...didn't work.....many, many supporters are still pissed off.....fwiw...nothing the club could say would convince me to view luke in a negative fashion...i think i know by now what happened...so do all of us really.....some just won't let themselves acknowledge it......the club f***ed up...badly...as it did with lovett.....grant knows it...and said so...gently it would seem as i believe he would be in possession of a lot of inside information.....

OH FFS, you really are an absolute idiot!

Piss off to the filth forum!

TRUTH, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Grant knows it


Thomas already said he does not know what went on behind closed doors and neither the **** do you, so stop slandering the club you clueless pissant!

No need for that barks.

stinger have his views and so do you. I dont subscribe to stingers views and believe that the club was very blunt when its coach and captain both put it on public record that Luke Ball walked out on a contract and his mates at the STKFC.

As for many supporters being pissed off at the club, dont know about that. Seems like we are on track for a record membership and most have moved on from this Luke Ball stuff.

We lost Ball because we wanted to pay him what the club felt he was worth. He wanted to go to a club that could use him and pay he what he thought he was worth.

Really it isn't much more to it than that, and after all it is only football, the players dont HAVE to be loyal to a club, that is for the silly suck supporters like us.

[markp]

I personally wont be satisfied we know the whole truth about the Lovett and Ball saga until there is a channel 9 dramatised mini series (at least as revealing and insightful as 'Wicked Love') on the subject.

I would also like to see it accompanied by an hour+ long heart to heart, mea culpa type interview of RL, by either Ray Martin, Barbara Walters, or Andrew Denton.

[The Fireman]

i think you have hit the nail on the head there mate......a truthful explanation is going to piss members off...hence the guff and fluff put out by the club...didn't work.....many, many supporters are still pissed off.....fwiw...nothing the club could say would convince me to view luke in a negative fashion...i think i know by now what happened...so do all of us really.....some just won't let themselves acknowledge it......the club f***ed up...badly...as it did with lovett.....grant knows it...and said so...gently it would seem as i believe he would be in possession of a lot of inside information.....

OH FFS, you really are an absolute idiot!

Piss off to the filth forum!

TRUTH, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Grant knows it


Thomas already said he does not know what went on behind closed doors and neither the **** do you, so stop slandering the club you clueless pissant!

I am now way too scared to say I like GT.

[joffaboy]

I would also like to see it accompanied by an hour+ long heart to heart, mea culpa type interview of RL, by either Ray Martin, Barbara Walters, or Andrew Denton.

Why not all three in a panel type interview, I mean it works a tread on Footy Classified.

Good call Hutchy?

Bad call, outregeous call, deplorable call.

[St DAC]

I always enjoy a good "deplorable" call ...

[plugger66]

Obviously Ross's mentors and advisors have convinced him that he urgently requires outside speed to take the next step towards a premiership.

mmm sour grapes there......

I will give GT a tip..RL is the one that sets the scene...

When RL FIRST started one of the criteria he stated he wanted was "more run through the middle"....

So hardly "urgently"...

You really do have issues dont you? For the sake of your sanity you need to let it go.

My point that you missed was that Lyon has been after more a pace since he started.

....and as for GT's jibe about lack of inside hardness.

FFS did the guy not watch any of our games last year?

Did he not see The StKilda Way of 4 quarters of grinding tough unrelenting football that ground opponents into submission.

Gone were the downhill skiers that would play a quarter here or there....brilliant to watch at times, but if the opposition blow torch was aplied we folded. The Saints are now the team with blow torch.

Maybe GT should check-out the tackle counts?

Connecting outside pace with a player or too with a demise of inside hardness is just utter rubbish.

Fiora was tried by Lyon in the role, did ok but then was discarded the next year because he could not deliver the St Kilda way for 4 quarters week in week out.

Armo will replace Ball. Lovett was not Ball's replacement.

Armo may replace Ball now but Lovett was Ball's replacement. He had hayes as his inside player and wanted another running player because Ball couldnt do what AL wanted. No doubt Lovett was brought in to be that running player and as such Ball would not have got as many games.

[markp]

I am not a fan of being a trouble maker

Are you warming to it...?