Improvers And Smokies for 2010..

[bergholt]

Armo, could be the most improved player in the competition, you dont generally go at pick 8 if you are a dud...

Yeah, pick 8 can be pretty good - Bartel, Corey, etc. But Armo went at pick 9, actually. So did Caydn Beetham. And some other pretty bad players:

1990: Matt Clape (West Coast)
1991: Stephen O'Reilly (Geelong)
1992: Martin Pike (Melbourne)
1993: Rowan Warfe (Fitzroy)
1994: Ben Wilson (Collingwood)
1995: Allen Jakovich (Footscray)
1996: Mark Harwood (Port Adelaide)
1997: Chad Cornes (Port Adelaide)
1998: Mark McVeigh (Essendon)
1999: Caydn Beetham (St Kilda)
2000: Kayne Pettifer (Richmond)
2001: Luke Molan (Melbourne)
2002: Hamish McIntosh (Kangaroos)
2003: David Trotter (Kangaroos)
2004: Jordan Russell (Carlton)
2005: Mitch Clark (Brisbane)
2006: David Armitage (St Kilda)
2007: Ben McEvoy (St Kilda)
2008: Jack Ziebell (North Melbourne)
2009: Andrew Moore (Port Adelaide)

It's not a bad pick but not exactly star-studded. Let's judge Armo by his on-field skill, not by the arbitrary number he was drafted at three years ago.

[Unforgiven]

Armo, Geary, McEvoy I think will be our greatest improvers.

Steven, Lynch I think will pop up for a handfull of games.

I think Kosi, if he could improve, would have the most positive influence on the team and it's performances than anyone else on our list. (Roo + Lenny are already spectacular)

[borderbarry]

I am worried that Roo may not have a good a year as 09, because of his problem knee. I hope I am wrong. But that is why it is crucial for another forward to step up this year, be it Lynch, Walsh, or someone already in the Senior team like Goddard. Clarke, or Sam Fisher.

[Zed]

I agree Geary will be stepping up. He played the first 14 games in a row actually...got dropped after the Geelong game and never got back in. I think he may have struggled physically as he is still young and relatively light framed. It will be interesting to see how he goes with another preseason under his belt. I prefer him in the side over Eddy. On a side note I was very pleased with him being allocated number 14.

Agree - Geary reminds me a little of Joey early days who blossomed as he got physically & mentally stronger.

[To the top]

Luke Miles has had his appenticeship including being named among the Emegencies in 2009.

A good build for a defensive flanker and he can run lines.

I tend to view the likes of Eddy and Geary as handy, mid sized list players where the lack of a couple of inches restricts their options and puts them up against the elite of our side - our running mid-fielders.

If Miles can nail a defensive flank (or Smith), that releases the likes of Clarke and Gram to mid-field rotations.


We lack the fleet footed defender to take the likes of Lovett - and rely on Gram for these tasks so the challenge for Miles is well and truly there.

And Peake may well be in the equation for such tasks.

Dawson had a season to remember but needs to back it up because the defensive key position back ups are not that evident - so someone to really pressure Dawson would please.

[asiu]

I think Kosi, if he could improve, would have the most positive influence on the team and it's performances than anyone else on our list.

yep... me three

[Bernard Shakey]

I think Kosi, if he could improve, would have the most positive influence on the team and it's performances than anyone else on our list.

yep... me three

Would be great, but I doubt it will happen.

[Spinner]

I think Kosi, if he could improve, would have the most positive influence on the team and it's performances than anyone else on our list.

yep... me three

Would be great, but I doubt it will happen.

Unfortunately at 27 we are still waiting - So im starting to think the same....

[Saintersss]

I think Kosi, if he could improve, would have the most positive influence on the team and it's performances than anyone else on our list.

yep... me three

Would be great, but I doubt it will happen.

Unfortunately at 27 we are still waiting - So im starting to think the same....

I think Kosi's season was quite underated by many, I mean before his hand injury he was very good. He was up there with the other 2nd forwards of the competition in Bradshaw and Roughead. Scored as many goals as them and did better in brownlow then them. Plus he is one of the best at crashing packs which created plenty of oppurtunity for the likes of Milne, Schieder and McQulater.
But then he has a similar problem to Milne in that he went missing in finals, but was this due to the hand injury or just failing under pressure?

Also with 2009 being his first real season as a permanent Full Forward one can only think he could improve in his second year in a set position.

And how much can we really expect from him with Riewoldt up there as well?

Also with everyones expectations of Steven.... I saw his one game and a few at sandi (one i went to, and other 2 were on tv).....Why does everyone think he will smash up next year? Does everyone go to Sandi every week to witness his form?

I think he's a good catch - But s*** I saw one good quarter against the Hawks, and three other alright games.

Would be good to see what others are basing their high expectations and predictions on regarding steven?

Personally I don't think next year will be his year, more 2011. But I think the reason everyone is so excited is that while he is not dominating VFL he has shown enough glimpses to show that he is going to be quality. He has all the attributes (speed, good set of skills, can win the hard ball and hard at the contest) to become a star player. He just needs to bulk up a bit more before he can show how good he really is.

[InkerSaint]

I think Kosi, if he could improve, would have the most positive influence on the team and it's performances than anyone else on our list.

yep... me three

Would be great, but I doubt it will happen.

Unfortunately at 27 we are still waiting - So im starting to think the same....

I think Kosi's season was quite underated by many, I mean before his hand injury he was very good. He was up there with the other 2nd forwards of the competition in Bradshaw and Roughead. Scored as many goals as them and did better in brownlow then them. Plus he is one of the best at crashing packs which created plenty of oppurtunity for the likes of Milne, Schieder and McQulater.
But then he has a similar problem to Milne in that he went missing in finals, but was this due to the hand injury or just failing under pressure?

Also with 2009 being his first real season as a permanent Full Forward one can only think he could improve in his second year in a set position.

And how much can we really expect from him with Riewoldt up there as well?

Some people are never happy.

Kosi has just come off a career-best season, topping his previous best goal tally by 50%, and a career-best 6 goals 2 against North in round 11. 12th on the Coleman list is probably a best showing for him also.

Lloyd, Brown, Fevola, and Riewoldt are freaks. And yet some people can't be satisfied with Kosi simply being a Very Good player.

[markp]

Brett Peake.

[markinUSA]

I'll go for Clint Jones. One more off-season to work on his disposal, and he'll step up and ... the sky's the limit!

[St.Rob8]

I think Kosi, if he could improve, would have the most positive influence on the team and it's performances than anyone else on our list.

yep... me three

Would be great, but I doubt it will happen.

Unfortunately at 27 we are still waiting - So im starting to think the same....

Good point though. For the role he currently plays, 27 is about the age where his strength should START to become a real weapon. Look at Gherig, Alistair Lynch and Barry Hall. There is no way those guys could have played the Beast in the goal square role in the first half of their careers. They just weren't strong enough. 27 for a power forward is 24 for a mid-fielder. His accuracy and marking will really hurt if he can win more contests through sheer strength as well as his height. I believe we SHOULD expect more hauls of 5+ goals a game from Kosi over the next 3 years.

[Saints94]

I truly think that Kosi will kick 60+ goals next year.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Armo, could be the most improved player in the competition, you dont generally go at pick 8 if you are a dud...

Yeah, pick 8 can be pretty good - Bartel, Corey, etc. But Armo went at pick 9, actually. So did Caydn Beetham. And some other pretty bad players:

1990: Matt Clape (West Coast)
1991: Stephen O'Reilly (Geelong)
1992: Martin Pike (Melbourne)
1993: Rowan Warfe (Fitzroy)
1994: Ben Wilson (Collingwood)
1995: Allen Jakovich (Footscray)
1996: Mark Harwood (Port Adelaide)
1997: Chad Cornes (Port Adelaide)
1998: Mark McVeigh (Essendon)
1999: Caydn Beetham (St Kilda)
2000: Kayne Pettifer (Richmond)
2001: Luke Molan (Melbourne)
2002: Hamish McIntosh (Kangaroos)
2003: David Trotter (Kangaroos)
2004: Jordan Russell (Carlton)
2005: Mitch Clark (Brisbane)
2006: David Armitage (St Kilda)
2007: Ben McEvoy (St Kilda)
2008: Jack Ziebell (North Melbourne)
2009: Andrew Moore (Port Adelaide)

It's not a bad pick but not exactly star-studded. Let's judge Armo by his on-field skill, not by the arbitrary number he was drafted at three years ago.

If Armo turns out anywhere near as good for us as Chad Cornes, Mitch Clarke, Steven O'Reilly, Allen Jakovich (albeit for a short time), Jack Ziebell (unless something catastrophic happens to him), or if he turns out as good as Mark McVeigh, Martin Pike, Hamish McIntosh, or hopefully Big Mac, I'll be very happy.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I am worried that Roo may not have a good a year as 09, because of his problem knee. I hope I am wrong. But that is why it is crucial for another forward to step up this year, be it Lynch, Walsh, or someone already in the Senior team like Goddard. Clarke, or Sam Fisher.

I third that about Goddard. If he played there in the finals (especially the GF, when others were missing from near point-blank) we'd most likely be toasting our win still. I still find the fact he wasn't played forward more, after the early West Coast game especially, flabbergasting. I'm sure the opposition teams have their fingers crossed that they won't have to match him up in our forward line, as well as Roo and Kosi.
He could/would dominate as much up there as they do (or at very least Kosi does) & could make us a few goals stronger per week. I think this is why we went after Peake and possibly Lovett (and then Smith), to free BJ up to go forward (after Ross said he'd ideally want BJ forward, or words to that effect, in an interview after the GF).
Goddard forward is probably my main Christmas footy wish, as it could really make the difference for us. Maybe a close second to us having another great run with injuries.

[DK27]

Just looking at who has not been mentioned who has a big upside.

Tom Simpkin could do a Zac Dawson and really suprise if injury hits and he is given a chance. He is a tallish half back who has pace and makes lots of contests. Ross likes these traits. He needs to inprove his decision making and disposal a bit. You would have said the same about Zac at the start of 2009! He has similar strengths and weaknesses as Miles but is taller. Certainly possible.

The other who may surprise is Alistair Smith. The forgotten Smith. He is a tall running midfielder with a beautiful left foot. Has had Osteiotis Pubis so has played off the bench a bit for Sandy last year. Good build, quick (when fit) and really top shelf user of the ball. Just needs to get his body right (like the other Smith) and could be really good. Can play as a running half back which is the likely spot he would start, again, only if we have injuries to our best team which didn't really happen last year.

I have doubts as to whether Armitage will ever be quick enough to play the modern game well enough. He has the same problem as Luke Ball. Looks great when he goes and gets the ball or tackles in packs but looks bad when his opponent is running forward with the ball and trails behind. Luke Ball was on Joel Selwood in the epic game last year and got creamed. That is when Ross lost faith in Luke and his worth to the team. Armo has the same problem. He will surely be played 2010 if fit and I hope he emerges as a star, but I have doubts.

[Saints94]

If BJ plays forward he is capable of kicking 50+ goals while having stints in the midfield or vise versa.............

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

If BJ plays forward he is capable of kicking 50+ goals while having stints in the midfield or vise versa.............

I like it. I like it a lot.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I suspect if we're looking for guys who can excite the fans, we're probably not going to be looking far past the 22 - barring injuries, this was a tough team to crack in '09/

So:

Geary - seems to me to be the template for the 4 year apprenticeship, has shown improvement every year, and seems to be a pretty complete mid. The step this year will be consistency.

McEvoy - Genuinely tough ask to try and cement 2nd ruck of King/Gardiner... but knowing neither's likely to play all 22, he'll get his chances, and if either of those guys goes backwards, McEvoy's opportunity will come.

Raph - IMO, he's reached the stage where I think most people underrate him. I was yelling at Walls during the GF when he was run down by Fisher's tagger because Fisher looked for a cheap touch. Those scenario's seem to be where Raph's at. If he can stay healthy, I don't think much needs to change and he'll start winning over the supporters.

Jesse Smith - if we can get him on the park...

Jones - we know he can tag. We know his deficiencies. I think that Jones rather than Armo is going to be the guy who fills the clearance void left by Luke Ball.

Lynch - May be able to push into the medium forward/winger role... Lyon obviously like the balance with that selection, but I'm not sure we're sold on Gwilt as the guy.

On the Flipside:

Armitage, Steven, are at pressure points. Tough side to crack, but they're at the point of needing to crack it or why are they there?

[Milton66]

Brett Peake.

Yup. He's been given some bad wraps on here.

But he might be one to shine in a good team. We'll see.

Playing for Freo is no real measure IMO.

As we've seen with Ssangyong...

You can throw a Merc engine ina Korean pile of cr@p, and it will always be a pile of cr@p.

Put it back into a Merc and it's a different story altogether.

[bergholt]

If Armo turns out anywhere near as good for us as Chad Cornes, Mitch Clarke, Steven O'Reilly, Allen Jakovich (albeit for a short time), Jack Ziebell (unless something catastrophic happens to him), or if he turns out as good as Mark McVeigh, Martin Pike, Hamish McIntosh, or hopefully Big Mac, I'll be very happy.

Allen Jakovich only played 7 games for the Dogs after being drafted at that spot, for 7 goals. I agree about Cornes and O'Reilly; Mitch Clark looks good but still has a long way to go before he can be considered a star.

I'd be happy if Armo turns out as good as Mark McVeigh, and that's about the best we can expect, I think. But plenty of time still for the kid.

My point, though, was that 8 of the first 14 players taken with pick 9 did approximately nothing. So don't use Armo's pick as part of your expectations for him.

[Milton66]

Every year, there will be up-and-comers.

The other factor will be if players like Zac, Schneids and Ray continue to improve.

The one player nobody has mentioned is Gram.

He had a great GF, and if he can take something away from that game and develop it into consistancy in 2010, he'll also become and elite mid.

We look at Dal, Joey, Lenny as the obvious ones... but let's not forget Grammy.

[markp]

Brett Peake.

Yup. He's been given some bad wraps on here.

But he might be one to shine in a good team. We'll see.

Playing for Freo is no real measure IMO.

As we've seen with Ssangyong...

You can throw a Merc engine ina Korean pile of cr@p, and it will always be a pile of cr@p.

Put it back into a Merc and it's a different story altogether.

He is very quick, only 27 next year, can play, is no longer at Freo, will be indoctrinated and expected to play 'Saints footy', and is on the last chance highway.

His speed and heart are the key...

= my 2010 smokey!

[Quixote]

Just looking at who has not been mentioned who has a big upside.

Tom Simpkin could do a Zac Dawson and really suprise if injury hits and he is given a chance. He is a tallish half back who has pace and makes lots of contests. Ross likes these traits. He needs to inprove his decision making and disposal a bit. You would have said the same about Zac at the start of 2009! He has similar strengths and weaknesses as Miles but is taller. Certainly possible.

The other who may surprise is Alistair Smith. The forgotten Smith. He is a tall running midfielder with a beautiful left foot. Has had Osteiotis Pubis so has played off the bench a bit for Sandy last year. Good build, quick (when fit) and really top shelf user of the ball. Just needs to get his body right (like the other Smith) and could be really good. Can play as a running half back which is the likely spot he would start, again, only if we have injuries to our best team which didn't really happen last year.

I have doubts as to whether Armitage will ever be quick enough to play the modern game well enough. He has the same problem as Luke Ball. Looks great when he goes and gets the ball or tackles in packs but looks bad when his opponent is running forward with the ball and trails behind. Luke Ball was on Joel Selwood in the epic game last year and got creamed. That is when Ross lost faith in Luke and his worth to the team. Armo has the same problem. He will surely be played 2010 if fit and I hope he emerges as a star, but I have doubts.

Interesting post and opinion.