13 years, 9th longest player EVER, last year, ROSS?????

[asiu]

it could be good value for some to listen to max's presser following the game against the dawkers in tassy

max is st kilda ....he knows whats going on

[Thinline]

Lyon clearly has his favourites, it's just that his favourites are different to the favourites of the Saints faithful.

Here's where it gets silly.

You are of the OPINION that Ross has favourites.

But the smarter bet is that he has a plan and players who rack up the right numbers in the right columns get the nod over those who don't.

Favouritism screams sentimentality.

Ross has gone to some lengths to reject that concept as any kind of motivator.

Why can't you accept that perhaps - just perhaps - he's picking the best available 22 each week??

[rodgerfox]

Lyon clearly has his favourites, it's just that his favourites are different to the favourites of the Saints faithful.

Here's where it gets silly.

You are of the OPINION that Ross has favourites.

But the smarter bet is that he has a plan and players who rack up the right numbers in the right columns get the nod over those who don't.

Favouritism screams sentimentality.

I don't agree at all.

Having favourites isn't a bad thing. It doesn't mean that like their personalities, or enjoy having a beer with them so you pick them each week. It means that for whatever reason, you like what they do. What they do is what, as a coach, you like.

What I've raised in the past, is what exactly is it that Lyon likes about Dempster, Eddy, Gwilt and co.?

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

Lyon seems to 'favour' playing the guys that he brought to the club. If this is why these guys are getting games ahead of Ball and Max, then this is a bad thing.

But if simply, they are doing something that he wants, that the rest of the football world cannot see, then that's fine. I have no issue with it.

Why can't you accept that perhaps - just perhaps - he's picking the best available 22 each week??

I'm just not 100% convinced of it.

All the popular theories as to why Max and Luke aren't playing (running, disposal etc.) don't make sense when Gwilt can't get out of his own daylight, and Eddy, Dawson and Dempster have disposal possibly in the bottom 10% of the comp.

[Milton66]

Can someone please define the term "favourites"?

Are they players who get picked regardless of form and reputation, or players who get picked because they can be relied upon to carry out the coach's instructions?

What's really silly is to compare this to GT's comments. Back then, Harvey was still playing good footy. GT never saw fit to drop him. Nor did he have anyone good enough to replace him with.

[BringBackMadDog]

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

This is garbage, when has his attitude not been great on game day?? He is hyper enthusiastic, aggressive and brave. His kicking is far from horrible and in comparison to a few other defenders in the side they are bloody good and he has hardly been beaten all year in a one on one contest

[Milton66]

Lyon seems to 'favour' playing the guys that he brought to the club. If this is why these guys are getting games ahead of Ball and Max, then this is a bad thing.

Hmmmm. Well one would assume that he recruited these guys because they have the capacity and capabilities to execute his preferred game plan. So why wouldn't he play them?

Surely you're not suggesting that if BAll or Max would improve the team, he'd leave them out because he prefers his "favourites"?

BTW, you cannot compare Ball with Gwilt as they are different players.

Ball v Eddy? Ball was tried in Eddy's role and failed.

NAx v Zac? Well that's a close one. The only thing I can see is that Max is suss injury wise, and Zac has done enough to seize his opportunity.

[rodgerfox]

Can someone please define the term "favourites"?

Are they players who get picked regardless of form and reputation, or players who get picked because they can be relied upon to carry out the coach's instructions?

It depends who's saying it.

My thoughts on the concept are above.

What's really silly is to compare this to GT's comments. Back then, Harvey was still playing good footy. GT never saw fit to drop him. Nor did he have anyone good enough to replace him with.

The issue at time with Harves, was not his form. It was that he was a legend of the club, and who the hell is this Thomas bloke to tell him to prove to the club that he should play on.

At the time, personally I thought every player should have to convince the club on a weekly basis that they should be there. I had no issue with what Thomas was trying to instill back then, and I have no issue with the concept of it now under Lyon.

The similarities are there with Max too. However the attitudes of the faithful are different.
Probably due to the fact that the decisions are being made by someone other than Grant Thomas, but more likely to the fact that they are being made by a coach who nearly went through the H&A season undefeated.


The Saints (well Thomas really) were critiscised for not blooding young players - but at the same time were hugely criticissed for suggsting that maybe, just maybe a 34yo should move on.

As for not having anyone to replace him, many are arguing that Dawson is not a replacement for Max.

That's kind of the point.

[Stillwaiting]

What did Lyon say (with the aid of some poetic licence!) - "F*** Sentiment!"

Yes, we all love Max - but heck, we all loved Harvs also and he went...but if we won the flag without either of them, I couldn't care less!

agree 100%

the op is a shyte stirrer, dont worry abou it

[rodgerfox]

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

This is garbage, when has his attitude not been great on game day?? He is hyper enthusiastic, aggressive and brave. His kicking is far from horrible and in comparison to a few other defenders in the side they are bloody good and he has hardly been beaten all year in a one on one contest

I'm talking about Zac Dawson.

[Milton66]

Can someone please define the term "favourites"?

Are they players who get picked regardless of form and reputation, or players who get picked because they can be relied upon to carry out the coach's instructions?

It depends who's saying it.

My thoughts on the concept are above.

What's really silly is to compare this to GT's comments. Back then, Harvey was still playing good footy. GT never saw fit to drop him. Nor did he have anyone good enough to replace him with.

The issue at time with Harves, was not his form. It was that he was a legend of the club, and who the hell is this Thomas bloke to tell him to prove to the club that he should play on.

At the time, personally I thought every player should have to convince the club on a weekly basis that they should be there. I had no issue with what Thomas was trying to instill back then, and I have no issue with the concept of it now under Lyon.

The similarities are there with Max too. However the attitudes of the faithful are different.
Probably due to the fact that the decisions are being made by someone other than Grant Thomas, but more likely to the fact that they are being made by a coach who nearly went through the H&A season undefeated.


The Saints (well Thomas really) were critiscised for not blooding young players - but at the same time were hugely criticissed for suggsting that maybe, just maybe a 34yo should move on.

As for not having anyone to replace him, many are arguing that Dawson is not a replacement for Max.

That's kind of the point.

I'll disagree on Dawson.

And accept your views on Harvey.

I think you'llprobably find that even fans of GT were upset at the time. I think it was his unfortunate use of "exit him out" that drew the most scorn. Taken out of context no doubt.

If we have matured as you state, then all good for the club.

[InkerSaint]

FFS.

Of all the people to mention the Great Turnip it has to be rodgerfox.

Now watch the train derail...

[rodgerfox]

Surely you're not suggesting that if BAll or Max would improve the team, he'd leave them out because he prefers his "favourites"?

BTW, you cannot compare Ball with Gwilt as they are different players.

Ball v Eddy? Ball was tried in Eddy's role and failed.

NAx v Zac? Well that's a close one. The only thing I can see is that Max is suss injury wise, and Zac has done enough to seize his opportunity.

This is where I'm intrigued by Lyon, and I must admit a bit concerned.

He's 'new school' in this regard.

Players have roles. You could be a better player than someone else, but if you can't play their specific role then you don't play.

Luke Ball is a case in point. I don't think he's being dropped because of his running, his kicking or anything else. I think he's being dropped because the role he plays is being player better by others, and he can't play other roles better than the guys already playing them.

Max, though is an interesting debate. There doesn't appear to be anything that Dawson does, that Max doesn't do better.

[matrix]

whos f****** sentimental?????

gee i wonder why he is (along with lenny) a FAV player???
hmmm wonder why??

cause he can still cut the f****** mustard thats why
the guy hasnt missed a beat
its only been injury thats stopped him
he isnt out of the side because of form

zac blah blah, played all year blah blah, why change it blah???
what and thats not sentiment?
wouldnt be fair because zacs doing a great job???

grass callling sand green
experience and rep count when it comes to finals

[markp]

For mine it all comes down to preparing for the last quarter of a final and Grand Final... his 'favourites' are probably just the types who would be more likely still standing, and have more left in the tank.

[saintlee]

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

This is garbage, when has his attitude not been great on game day?? He is hyper enthusiastic, aggressive and brave. His kicking is far from horrible and in comparison to a few other defenders in the side they are bloody good and he has hardly been beaten all year in a one on one contest

I'm talking about Zac Dawson.

Geez you talk s*** Rogerfox, Zac's kicking efficiency is 94%! He is one of the best kicks on the team...if you don't believe me, read this:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... public_rss

[Milton66]

Surely you're not suggesting that if BAll or Max would improve the team, he'd leave them out because he prefers his "favourites"?

BTW, you cannot compare Ball with Gwilt as they are different players.

Ball v Eddy? Ball was tried in Eddy's role and failed.

NAx v Zac? Well that's a close one. The only thing I can see is that Max is suss injury wise, and Zac has done enough to seize his opportunity.

This is where I'm intrigued by Lyon, and I must admit a bit concerned.

He's 'new school' in this regard.

Players have roles. You could be a better player than someone else, but if you can't play their specific role then you don't play.

Luke Ball is a case in point. I don't think he's being dropped because of his running, his kicking or anything else. I think he's being dropped because the role he plays is being player better by others, and he can't play other roles better than the guys already playing them.

Max, though is an interesting debate. There doesn't appear to be anything that Dawson does, that Max doesn't do better.

If you are correct about Ball, then why should he get a game if others are doing it better than him? Surely, a player should be selected on merit and only if they can improve the team... which in your above example, Ball isn't doing that at the moment.

[rodgerfox]

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

This is garbage, when has his attitude not been great on game day?? He is hyper enthusiastic, aggressive and brave. His kicking is far from horrible and in comparison to a few other defenders in the side they are bloody good and he has hardly been beaten all year in a one on one contest

I'm talking about Zac Dawson.

Geez you talk s*** Rogerfox, Zac's kicking efficiency is 94%! He is one of the best kicks on the team...if you don't believe me, read this:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... public_rss

"He is one of the best kicks on the team.."

Even for Saintsational, that's ridiculous.

[rodgerfox]

If you are correct about Ball, then why should he get a game if others are doing it better than him? Surely, a player should be selected on merit and only if they can improve the team... which in your above example, Ball isn't doing that at the moment.

I don't neccessarily think he should.

Under the 'traditional' concept of your best players getting a game, he definately should.

But under what I perceive to be Lyon's concept, he shouldn't.


So far this season, it's hard to argue with Lyon's concept. But of course, if we don't win the flag the debate will flare.

As I said, it's one those things that cam make a coach a genius, or a dicckhead.

[saintlee]

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

This is garbage, when has his attitude not been great on game day?? He is hyper enthusiastic, aggressive and brave. His kicking is far from horrible and in comparison to a few other defenders in the side they are bloody good and he has hardly been beaten all year in a one on one contest

I'm talking about Zac Dawson.

Geez you talk s*** Rogerfox, Zac's kicking efficiency is 94%! He is one of the best kicks on the team...if you don't believe me, read this:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... public_rss

"He is one of the best kicks on the team.."

Even for Saintsational, that's ridiculous.

Its statistically proven, read the article, its in black and white, Dawson is a great kick, very acurate.....but I doubt you bother with facts when you post....

[rodgerfox]

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

This is garbage, when has his attitude not been great on game day?? He is hyper enthusiastic, aggressive and brave. His kicking is far from horrible and in comparison to a few other defenders in the side they are bloody good and he has hardly been beaten all year in a one on one contest

I'm talking about Zac Dawson.

Geez you talk s*** Rogerfox, Zac's kicking efficiency is 94%! He is one of the best kicks on the team...if you don't believe me, read this:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... public_rss

"He is one of the best kicks on the team.."

Even for Saintsational, that's ridiculous.

Its statistically proven, read the article, its in black and white, Dawson is a great kick, very acurate.....but I doubt you bother with facts when you post....

Great, ring the AFL and tell them we're statistically the best team in the comp. No need for the finals, it's already proven.

Give us the flag now.

[saintlee]

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

This is garbage, when has his attitude not been great on game day?? He is hyper enthusiastic, aggressive and brave. His kicking is far from horrible and in comparison to a few other defenders in the side they are bloody good and he has hardly been beaten all year in a one on one contest

I'm talking about Zac Dawson.

Geez you talk s*** Rogerfox, Zac's kicking efficiency is 94%! He is one of the best kicks on the team...if you don't believe me, read this:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... public_rss

"He is one of the best kicks on the team.."

Even for Saintsational, that's ridiculous.

Its statistically proven, read the article, its in black and white, Dawson is a great kick, very acurate.....but I doubt you bother with facts when you post....

Great, ring the AFL and tell them we're statistically the best team in the comp. No need for the finals, it's already proven.

Give us the flag now.

How is this relevant to what I said?

I will take that diversion as proof you don't have anything to back up your claims about Zac...

[BringBackMadDog]

Dawson's attitude doesn't appear great on game day, and his footskills a horrible. One on one, he gets beaten.

This is garbage, when has his attitude not been great on game day?? He is hyper enthusiastic, aggressive and brave. His kicking is far from horrible and in comparison to a few other defenders in the side they are bloody good and he has hardly been beaten all year in a one on one contest

I'm talking about Zac Dawson.

Mate you really are a silly old Twat. Dawson has hardly missed a target all year, his kicking efficiency is one of the highest in the competition. He has played full back all year in a side that has had the lowest score kicked against it for 40 years, but apparently he hasnt won a one on one contest all season.

Get a Clue

[rodgerfox]

Mate you really are a silly old Twat. Dawson has hardly missed a target all year, his kicking efficiency is one of the highest in the competition. He has played full back all year in a side that has had the lowest score kicked against it for 40 years, but apparently he hasnt won a one on one contest all season.

Get a Clue

Firstly, if dinky little 20m sideways and backwards hospital passes are the sign a great kick, then sure - he's up there with the best.

Secondly, although I never said he hasn't won a one-on-one contest all season, you're infact probably right. I don't think he would have won one all year.

But that's not really his job. His job is not to get beaten. But when our midfield wasn't protecting him, he struggled significantly in contests when he's on his own.

[bergholt]

And in alot of these situations, the result on the day overshadows the actual merit of the decision they make.

Meaning, if we lose there is no doubt that Lyon will be criticised for not playing Max and/or Ball - regardless of if in reality they would have made the difference.

that's pretty trite. if we lose he'll obviously be criticised for something. and because there's no way to tell what decision made the difference, he'll be criticised for the most prominent decisions - hence, max and ball, and even goose. there's no surprise there.

[Milton66]

Mate you really are a silly old Twat. Dawson has hardly missed a target all year, his kicking efficiency is one of the highest in the competition. He has played full back all year in a side that has had the lowest score kicked against it for 40 years, but apparently he hasnt won a one on one contest all season.

Get a Clue

Firstly, if dinky little 20m sideways and backwards hospital passes are the sign a great kick, then sure - he's up there with the best.

Secondly, although I never said he hasn't won a one-on-one contest all season, you're infact probably right. I don't think he would have won one all year.

But that's not really his job. His job is not to get beaten. But when our midfield wasn't protecting him, he struggled significantly in contests when he's on his own.

I'd suggest that most defenders will get beaten 1-out if the mids lack presence and the ball enters defensive 50 quickly. Even Max.