Mixed Message from the Club

[asiu]

humour bypassers



i like ya mr fox

[reincarnated]

In a sense, there are some worrying signs....

We got rolled twice by ordinary teams. Very ordinary even.

We all know the details, and clearly only the delusional ones could be happy about it.

But the aftermath is what is a little concerning.


Lyon was a bit pointy in his presser. Arrogant, and slightly guarded. He does this when he's struggling.

He apparently berrated the players. Why?

If we're tapering training, then surely he'd know better than anyone that they're not physically able to do what he asked them to do. So why would you get into them if that was the case?

Apparently he berrated them for not doing the basics. For being complacent. Why?

If Lyon is 'engineering losses' like people on here are suggesting, then why is he upset with the players for losing?

If the club is only looking to September, then why are the players getting berrated for poor performances in 'meaningless' games?



It's bit confusing at the moment.


And I must admit, a bit concerning.

Reincarnated explains to rodgerfox that you are asking questions you have no right getting reasons for

Being a member does not entitle you to receiving information anyway

Rodgerfox should PM Reincarnated as Reincarnated will have none of the answer

[reincarnated]

Another blatant shot at our coach and another blatant troll....

If you'd seen the presser you'd know how laughable the suggestion of him being 'pointy' and arrogant are.... and no one knows what was said to the players behind closed doors.

....

Exactly markp.

It is laughable to suggest he was pointy (whatever the F that means?) and arrogant.

Why is this line being pushed as fact by RF?

About the third or fourth time RF has stated as fact that Lyon was arrogant in posts.

Trying to sow the seed no doubt.

Typically poor baiting.

And I would suggest that there was more to RF not logging on for months at a time than overseas. RF would have certainly found time if we had have had some losses.

Baiting is the modis opperandi.

Dont fall for the trolling.

Super post taking the high road as usual

Does Rodgerfox actually have to check sainsational overseas? Reincarnated cannot understand why he/she would want to do such a thing if he/she didn't want to

Get back to your lunch/dinner with all your rich bosses whilst on your blackberry please

[SainterK]

Ross Lyon has been far from confusing, his message (and a very consistent one at that) has been to bank the points and get the team in the best position possible come finals.

[reincarnated]

Ross Lyon has been far from confusing, his message (and a very consistent one at that) has been to bank the points and get the team in the best position possible come finals.

Spot on, plus rehiterated early, he doesn't have to release any information he doesnt want to either

[rodgerfox]

The results are irrelevant. The performance certainly isn't.

What these two performances have highlighted, is that our game plan isn't 'genius'.

We rely on our good players to be 100% switched on. When they're not, Lyon isn't the oracle some would have you believe.

.

I've read that this list coaches itself. Thanks to Blight-lotto (I think I've heard it referred to) B4Eva's grandmother wcould coach these guys to a Prelim.


Being 19-0 with a fully fit list of very, very good footballers, and having beaten every team in the comp - including one of the 'contenders' twice, means that we are biggest certainty in modern history.........


......or are we.

Geez, some of these statements from you Rodger are breathtakingly ignorant.

THe performance is NEVER irrelevent. Who cares about the spin coming rom the club all year. Performance = result. Especially if we play teams in the bottom half of the ladder. I fail to see how we could possibly of played well against North and LOST So yeah, we played bad on the weekend.

One of us is confused.

What I attempted to say, was that had we won the past 2 close games, would not have changed the fact that we played horribly.

So if we fell over the line on Sunday and won, would have been irrelevant. The fact that we played so poorly on the 'rebound' from a terrible performance is very relevant.

AS far as linking these recent performances with our game plan and then loosely tying it in with your tired old opinion that it proves that the game plan is flawed.... I'll say it again, what game plan isn't based around your best players playing well?

I've never said our game plan is flawed.

Surely that's the point isn't it? If anything the game against the hawks proved that the game plan doesn't require our best players on the park to be successful. What the game plan requires is 100% effort by ALL players to be successful. That's something we haven't be getting. I think Geelongs' game plan is based more on the need for the best players to be out on the park - not ours.

They all are.

They are overrated. Coaches are painted as geniuses for their brilliant tactical skills and foolproof game plans. It's nonsense. I've said this all along.

Your game plan could be to stuff the ball down the back of your shorts and crowd surf your way from one end of the ground to the other, and if your whole team is very talented and 110% committed - it will work.

Is Clarkson a genius this year? No. Because his list wasn't fit and they weren't 100% committed.

Paul Roos? No, see above.

Mark Thompson? See Paul Roos.

Ross Lyon? See Mark Thompson.

Your final statement reads like you are almost willing the team to fail so you can be first to say, 'I told you so.'

If I was the type of person to say 'I told you so', I'd have been saying it non stop for the past 2 years. Everything I've said has come to fruition and continues to do so.

But I'm not. So I won't.

My opinion - even if the absolute wrost happens to us - and we lost Roo for the rest of the year. I'm still confident that we will win the flag. as long as the boys bring the intensity they have shown this year.

Clearly we've shown that we're capable. We have the talent, as we have had for the past 4 years. Getting them on the park and committed has been the only obstacle.

Was the same back then, and is the same now.

Not rookies, not a 'modern footy dept', not depth, not ruckmen, not pace, not defence, not the coach - it's getting your players on the park, and committed.

Simple. Very simple.

[saintsRrising]

Not rookies, not a 'modern footy dept', not depth, not ruckmen, not pace, not defence, not the coach - it's getting your players on the park, and committed.

Simple. Very simple.

That is where you are wrong....it is not one thing but many.

Good teams become good and gain success by doing most things right.
You don't win a flag by only doinone thing right.




I do find it very amusing though that you want to base your base on the last two weeks.

Wait till week one of the finals...

[rodgerfox]

That is where you are wrong....it is not one thing but many.

Good teams become good and gain success by doing most things right.
You don't win a flag by only doinone thing right.

Well of course.

However, they all lead to one thing - having good players, getting them fit and on the park, and committed.

How you get to that point, I honestly don't think matters. As long as you get there. We've had points 1 and 3 covered for 4-5 years. The second part has been the tough bit.

If rookies, a new tactical genius coach, a modern footy dept etc. etc. etc. is the reason we now have a fit list - then great, it's paid off.

I do find it very amusing though that you want to base your base on the last two weeks.

Wait till week one of the finals...

?? That's just silly.

I've been sprouting this nonsense for 3 years now.

[iwantmeseats]

Bit dodgey,

How is it you are here when we lose, and MUCH less frequently when we are winning?

[rodgerfox]

Bit dodgey,

How is it you are here when we lose, and MUCH less frequently when we are winning?

I wasn't on here much last week.

I jump on here when I have some spare time. Simple as that.

[saintsRrising]

, and committed.

Simple. Very simple.

Is it???

Committed to what exaclty?

You statement in itself has no meaning.

Committed to what?

Winning? blah blah balh...that has no meaning.

It has to be committment to game plan and tactics...to playing as a team.

Just getting players on the park is rubbish.

What you have to get is a well drilled team on the park...working for each other.

Today more so than ever.


Decades ago..it was in the main to just assemble the best group of players you could and he who had the most talent won.

You just plonked them out there and in kick to kick footy talent would out.


The Blues grabbed many a flag due to money buying players.

[SainterK]

Ross Lyon has been far from confusing, his message (and a very consistent one at that) has been to bank the points and get the team in the best position possible come finals.

Spot on, plus rehiterated early, he doesn't have to release any information he doesnt want to either

Credit to him, he has delivered on what has been his strongest message all year.

Roger, I have disagreed with you before on this point....

"It's getting your players on the park, and committed - Simple. Very simple"

I still don't believe this is as simple as you make out, you seem to believe that Footy player + talent = Happy ever after.

I do not

[rodgerfox]

Ross Lyon has been far from confusing, his message (and a very consistent one at that) has been to bank the points and get the team in the best position possible come finals.

Spot on, plus rehiterated early, he doesn't have to release any information he doesnt want to either

Credit to him, he has delivered on what has been his strongest message all year.

Roger, I have disagreed with you before on this point....

"It's getting your players on the park, and committed - Simple. Very simple"

I still don't believe this is as simple as you make out, you seem to believe that Footy player + talent = Happy ever after.

I do not

(Footy player + talent + 100% effort) x 18 = success.

You left out the most important part - the commitment. Without 100% effort, you'll struggle.

Talent doesn't mean anything unless you're fit and putting in.

[SainterK]

Ross Lyon has been far from confusing, his message (and a very consistent one at that) has been to bank the points and get the team in the best position possible come finals.

Spot on, plus rehiterated early, he doesn't have to release any information he doesnt want to either

Credit to him, he has delivered on what has been his strongest message all year.

Roger, I have disagreed with you before on this point....

"It's getting your players on the park, and committed - Simple. Very simple"

I still don't believe this is as simple as you make out, you seem to believe that Footy player + talent = Happy ever after.

I do not

(Footy player + talent + 100% effort) x 18 = success.


Talent doesn't mean anything unless you're fit and putting in.

OK so we agree that commitment / effort is crucially important, you believe this is player driven then?

[rodgerfox]

OK so we agree that commitment / effort is crucially important, you believe this is player driven then?

Well yes. I've been saying the same thing over and over again for the past 4-5 years.

Player driven? Not really. Although it depends.

It comes from the coach in my opinion. If the players are mature and professional, then they are easier to 'lead'. If they're young and inexperienced, they require more 'guidance' ffrom the coach in terms of the effort and committment required.

It's why teams generally don't succeed until their core of players are around the 23-27yo mark.

It's why the great coaches are great leaders aswell - not just tacticians.

However the players must be receptive to it. It starts form the coach, and it's up to the players to take it on and run with it.

But player mindset and the expectation of what sort of committment and effort is required, definately starts with the coach.

A coach who can't get the best out of his players, is an ordinary coach. That's the difference between good coaches and ordinary ones.

[SainterK]

OK so we agree that commitment / effort is crucially important, you believe this is player driven then?

Well yes. I've been saying the same thing over and over again for the past 4-5 years.

Player driven? Not really. Although it depends.

It comes from the coach in my opinion. If the players are mature and professional, then they are easier to 'lead'. If they're young and inexperienced, they require more 'guidance' ffrom the coach in terms of the effort and committment required.

It's why teams generally don't succeed until their core of players are around the 23-27yo mark.

It's why the great coaches are great leaders aswell - not just tacticians.

However the players must be receptive to it. It starts form the coach, and it's up to the players to take it on and run with it.

But player mindset and the expectation of what sort of committment and effort is required, definately starts with the coach.

A coach who can't get the best out of his players, is an ordinary coach. That's the difference between good coaches and ordinary ones.

Fortunate for us then, that we have both great leaders, and players that are responsive....

[saintsRrising]

It's why the great coaches are great leaders as well - not just tacticians.

.

err duhh... Captain Obvious why do you think they are called coaches????


The coach and always has been the most important leader at the club....and one reason why you cannot tolerate a coach that breads division.

But name a few great coaches in modern times that were not good at tactics too...

Look at the recent Premiers hipcoachesand you will seea lo of tactical nouse.

The Hawks last year in the GF with their rush behind tactic with gave them a vital edge....and their Rolling Zone to overcome not havinga midfield oozing in talent.

Thompson developing the Cats play on style to suit his cattle.

Roos redefining stoppage play to make the most of his limited but hard-working midfield.

Matthews with his bash and crash ruck approach to exploit his talened midfield group.

Great coaches lead...but great coaches doa lot more than lead.

[Teflon]

In a sense, there are some worrying signs....

We got rolled twice by ordinary teams. Very ordinary even.

We all know the details, and clearly only the delusional ones could be happy about it.

But the aftermath is what is a little concerning.


Lyon was a bit pointy in his presser. Arrogant, and slightly guarded. He does this when he's struggling.

He apparently berrated the players. Why?

If we're tapering training, then surely he'd know better than anyone that they're not physically able to do what he asked them to do. So why would you get into them if that was the case?

Apparently he berrated them for not doing the basics. For being complacent. Why?

If Lyon is 'engineering losses' like people on here are suggesting, then why is he upset with the players for losing?

If the club is only looking to September, then why are the players getting berrated for poor performances in 'meaningless' games?



It's bit confusing at the moment.


And I must admit, a bit concerning.

I reckon IF we win the flag we wont see this squib on here for months....why would you...there'd be no one to knife.

Hardly spotted over 19 wins...reckons its been o/s.....can I recommend Afghanistan for your next trip....lovely rocks there....

[matrix]

last week players were only getting spots because they could run hard

now its commitment whats needed

next week i think we touch on skills

[Moccha]

In a sense, there are some worrying signs....

We got rolled twice by ordinary teams. Very ordinary even.

We all know the details, and clearly only the delusional ones could be happy about it.

But the aftermath is what is a little concerning.


Lyon was a bit pointy in his presser. Arrogant, and slightly guarded. He does this when he's struggling.

He apparently berrated the players. Why?

If we're tapering training, then surely he'd know better than anyone that they're not physically able to do what he asked them to do. So why would you get into them if that was the case?

Apparently he berrated them for not doing the basics. For being complacent. Why?

If Lyon is 'engineering losses' like people on here are suggesting, then why is he upset with the players for losing?

If the club is only looking to September, then why are the players getting berrated for poor performances in 'meaningless' games?



It's bit confusing at the moment.


And I must admit, a bit concerning.

It's interesting how you perceive messages

[Moods]

[quote="rodgerfox"][





They are overrated. Coaches are painted as geniuses for their brilliant tactical skills and foolproof game plans. It's nonsense. I've said this all along.

Your game plan could be to stuff the ball down the back of your shorts and crowd surf your way from one end of the ground to the other, and if your whole team is very talented and 110% committed - it will work.

Is Clarkson a genius this year? No. Because his list wasn't fit and they weren't 100% committed.

Paul Roos? No, see above.

Mark Thompson? See Paul Roos.

Ross Lyon? See Mark Thompson.

quote]

So you think any old game plan will work, as long as all the players are on the park and committed to the game plan it will work?? All I can say is that I disagree. In fact that's a ridiculous assertion.

Lyon is not only the coach but he is the manager of the group. He is responsible for taking ownership of our injury crisis that we seemed to experience year in year out - and did something about it. So maybe, just maybe, he is responsible for ensuring that we have a full list this year.

I also don't reckon our list is our talented as you make out. Sure, we have some very talented players, but some have been ordinary until this year. In fact many in the team are cast-offs from other clubs. If they were so talented then why would we have got them so cheaply come trade time? ie Ray, Schneider, Dempster, King, Gardiner (probably the most natural talent).

Other players are good ordinary players that have listed another cog, ie McQualter, Jones,

Surely a good coach is able to mould all different types,shapes and styles and players, develop a game plan that suits the list, and then create some cohesiveness within them. If coaching was as simple as you purport, we'd all be doing it.

BTW - With the list Roos had - I think he was a genius to extract a premiership out of them. The secret of all team sports is to get them playing as a team. Pretty sure the coach plays more than just a side role in this.

[asiu]

Your game plan could be to stuff the ball down the back of your shorts and crowd surf your way from one end of the ground to the other, and if your whole team is very talented and 110% committed - it will work.

how do we bounce the ball again bloke ?

[rodgerfox]

Your game plan could be to stuff the ball down the back of your shorts and crowd surf your way from one end of the ground to the other, and if your whole team is very talented and 110% committed - it will work.

how do we bounce the ball again bloke ?

Well technically you wouldn't be running, so you wouldn't need to bounce it.

[saintsRrising]

BTW - With the list Roos had - I think he was a genius to extract a premiership out of them. The secret of all team sports is to get them playing as a team. Pretty sure the coach plays more than just a side role in this.

That is my view too.

[markp]

BTW - With the list Roos had - I think he was a genius to extract a premiership out of them. The secret of all team sports is to get them playing as a team. Pretty sure the coach plays more than just a side role in this.

That is my view too.

It's a cliche, but I'll back a champion team over a team of champions any day.

Of course the coach is key to this.