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Con Gorozidis wrote:bakes has lost a yard and could be a liability. main issue is he is our only small defender. and these days most oppositions have 2 or 3 small forwards.
so i think we maybe stuck with him.
Surely you could be a little kinder with your words than us being "stuck with him" Con?
Perhaps Baker is heading towards the twilight of his career, could we potentially be grooming anyone for this role in the future? Excuse my ignorance as I have not seen him play yet, but could someone like Jack Steven take over the role as a small defender next year?
Con Gorozidis wrote:bakes has lost a yard and could be a liability. main issue is he is our only small defender. and these days most oppositions have 2 or 3 small forwards.
so i think we maybe stuck with him.
Surely you could be a little kinder with your words than us being "stuck with him" Con?
Perhaps Baker is heading towards the twilight of his career, could we potentially be grooming anyone for this role in the future? Excuse my ignorance as I have not seen him play yet, but could someone like Jack Steven take over the role as a small defender next year?
I've held this view since earlier in the year, I think around round 9 when he had a shock er against Brisbane. Bakes has been a terrific servant to the club and at his best was one of the leagues premier taggers. But week after week, I feel even more vindicated that the game has passed him by, and now with Dempster back in the side I reckon its only a matter of time before Bakes is left out of the side.
Trust the Midas Touch
"My heart is at St.Kilda, I've been here seven years, I only wanted to play for them." (Fraser Gehrig, 27/11/2007)
midas_touch wrote:I've held this view since earlier in the year, I think around round 9 when he had a shock er against Brisbane. Bakes has been a terrific servant to the club and at his best was one of the leagues premier taggers. But week after week, I feel even more vindicated that the game has passed him by, and now with Dempster back in the side I reckon its only a matter of time before Bakes is left out of the side.
I am not so sure bakes and Dempster play the same role. Bakes is very hard at it type and very in and under who can play on small as long as they arent good overhead. Dempster doesnt IMO go in as hard and isnt an in and under type and not sure he can play on the smalls.
midas_touch wrote:I've held this view since earlier in the year, I think around round 9 when he had a shock er against Brisbane. Bakes has been a terrific servant to the club and at his best was one of the leagues premier taggers. But week after week, I feel even more vindicated that the game has passed him by, and now with Dempster back in the side I reckon its only a matter of time before Bakes is left out of the side.
I am not so sure bakes and Dempster play the same role. Bakes is very hard at it type and very in and under who can play on small as long as they arent good overhead. Dempster doesnt IMO go in as hard and isnt an in and under type and not sure he can play on the smalls.
dempster would be at least as vulnerable as baker on sunday's form. let's face it, neither set the world on fire.
Con Gorozidis wrote:bakes has lost a yard and could be a liability. main issue is he is our only small defender. and these days most oppositions have 2 or 3 small forwards.
so i think we maybe stuck with him.
No I guess Baker isn't at his best, don't know whether the coaching panel consider they are 'stuck with him' though
Not that long ago you wanted Koschitzke tipped out
dempster would be at least as vulnerable as baker on sunday's form. let's face it, neither set the world on fire.
In Dempster's defence it would have been a seriously difficult match to come back into the team. There was little flow, they were tired and players were missing targets all over the shop - very messy, scraggy game. We toughed it out but it was a bloody awful game to watch with the exception of a couple of purple patches. He'll be there next week (you'd think) and will need a couple to get up to speed.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
dempster would be at least as vulnerable as baker on sunday's form. let's face it, neither set the world on fire.
In Dempster's defence it would have been a seriously difficult match to come back into the team. There was little flow, they were tired and players were missing targets all over the shop - very messy, scraggy game. We toughed it out but it was a bloody awful game to watch with the exception of a couple of purple patches. He'll be there next week (you'd think) and will need a couple to get up to speed.
wasn't bagging dempster, so much as defending bakes. we had a lot of players flat and down for most of the game.
I personally think Bakes is completely safe....Rosco knows what he does week in and week out without fail - pressure, pressure and more pressure. I've seen him beaten in contests but he just keeps coming back at you, kind of like an angry ferret.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
midas_touch wrote:I feel even more vindicated that the game has passed him by
What does that even mean?
It's something that the lemmings say that excuses them from coming up with tangible evidence.
They're the same people that can only say.. "Bakes only got 7 touches" or "Bakes has lost a yard". People that are blinded by flashy touches & are too busy getting aroused by a Montagna run to see how Joey got free (Bakes throwing his body in to block and thus spill his own blood (& anyone who gets in his way))
Bakes will be hugely important come September. Seriously tough players are crucial when games tighten up & get more physical. It's no co-incidence that Bakes' best game in 09 was the Geelong match, which was finals like.
midas_touch wrote:I feel even more vindicated that the game has passed him by
What does that even mean?
It's something that the lemmings say that excuses them from coming up with tangible evidence.
They're the same people that can only say.. "Bakes only got 7 touches" or "Bakes has lost a yard". People that are blinded by flashy touches & are too busy getting aroused by a Montagna run to see how Joey got free (Bakes throwing his body in to block and thus spill his own blood (& anyone who gets in his way))
Bakes will be hugely important come September. Seriously tough players are crucial when games tighten up & get more physical. It's no co-incidence that Bakes' best game in 09 was the Geelong match, which was finals like.
Some truth in that.
Whats the stat for toughness/aggression at the ball carrier?....I wish Gram had a tad more.....but different player.
Bakes playing a tough, tight role on a Geelong fwd line in finals including a Stokes/Byrnes type and harrassing everyone else (Geelong dont like tackles that stick - their first reaction is to take the tackler on..) will be handy along with Dempster.
Interesting the perception of Baker externally, this is a grab from the Herald Sun....
IT IS a selection headache any AFL coach would love to have. Dustin Fletcher or Matthew Scarlett on the last line of defence? If that isn't tough enough, there's Simon Prestigiacomo to consider as well.
The Essendon, Geelong and Collingwood stoppers shape as the leading contenders for the full-back position in the TAC Cup 18th Year SuperTeam. Brisbane Lions defender Justin Leppitsch is another strong candidate.
The fight for the back-pocket roles appear just as fierce.
Josh Hunt, Adam Kingsley, Brad Scott, Austinn Jones, Chris Johnson, Steven Baker and David Wirrpanda must be split.
Someone was asking RL about the return of Goose the other day, and his response was who do I drop in the best defence in the league? SO while the team is winning, and there's no injuries, I don't think players like Bakes etc will be dropped.
There isnt a stat that measures what Baker does , his value is pressure and harassment. Also because of his hard man reputation the opp must consider him in their matchups.
aussiejones wrote:I want him out there because I think we need him. Well most weeks.
He is hard at it , but not at his best. Perhaps being a bit more careful as suggested and lost some pace.
On balance a week to week match up proposition .
That's the thing, there are good match-up's for him some weeks, and not others, yet they're playing him every week. I'd rather they picked the team on it's merits each week, based on who we're playing that week, not on who played last week, or last year, or the last 5 years.
Like all teams got used to midfield rotations a few years ago, guys would get used to coming in and going out.
aussiejones wrote:I want him out there because I think we need him. Well most weeks.
He is hard at it , but not at his best. Perhaps being a bit more careful as suggested and lost some pace.
On balance a week to week match up proposition .
That's the thing, there are good match-up's for him some weeks, and not others, yet they're playing him every week. I'd rather they picked the team on it's merits each week, based on who we're playing that week, not on who played last week, or last year, or the last 5 years.
Like all teams got used to midfield rotations a few years ago, guys would get used to coming in and going out.
No they wouldnt. This is where you are wrong just like you were when you wanted to drop guys weekly if they had one bad performance. Stability is the key to a good side as is morole. Dropping guys every second week does neither of those and luckily RL knows that.
aussiejones wrote:I want him out there because I think we need him. Well most weeks.
He is hard at it , but not at his best. Perhaps being a bit more careful as suggested and lost some pace.
On balance a week to week match up proposition .
That's the thing, there are good match-up's for him some weeks, and not others, yet they're playing him every week. I'd rather they picked the team on it's merits each week, based on who we're playing that week, not on who played last week, or last year, or the last 5 years.
Like all teams got used to midfield rotations a few years ago, guys would get used to coming in and going out.
No they wouldnt. This is where you are wrong just like you were when you wanted to drop guys weekly if they had one bad performance. Stability is the key to a good side as is morole. Dropping guys every second week does neither of those and luckily RL knows that.
How old are you? A million years old? Your mind is so closed and small. You seem so stuck in your ways it's mind-boggling. They would get used to it exactly the same way. And they're not being "dropped", they're just not being picked. It's a new week. These guys are tougher than you think. Those who are GROWN UP would know it was being done for the good of the team (just like when rotations started) and would get over it QUICK SMART. You obviously wouldn't.
And YET AGAIN, you're not letting the truth get in the way of a good story. I said I'd only not pick someone if there was a genuinely better option to bring in, which is a no brainer. Like what Mick Malthouse did a few weeks ago, even though they'd won their last 4. They've kicked all ass since. Obviously their "morale" is OK, isn't it? And have you forgotten how much better our guys went after Dal and Milne were "dropped" last year and the rest of the team was "put on notice". Was that not the widely recognised beginning of the brilliant run we've been on since? Obviously our guys weren't "too scared to play well" as you said they would be.
AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:
..........And they're not being "dropped", they're just not being picked. They'd know it was being done for the greater good.......
aussiejones wrote:I want him out there because I think we need him. Well most weeks.
He is hard at it , but not at his best. Perhaps being a bit more careful as suggested and lost some pace.
On balance a week to week match up proposition .
That's the thing, there are good match-up's for him some weeks, and not others, yet they're playing him every week. I'd rather they picked the team on it's merits each week, based on who we're playing that week, not on who played last week, or last year, or the last 5 years.
Like all teams got used to midfield rotations a few years ago, guys would get used to coming in and going out.
No they wouldnt. This is where you are wrong just like you were when you wanted to drop guys weekly if they had one bad performance. Stability is the key to a good side as is morole. Dropping guys every second week does neither of those and luckily RL knows that.
How old are you? A million years old? Your mind is so closed. They would get used to it exactly the same way. And they're not being "dropped", they're just not being picked. These guys are tougher than you think. They'd know it was being done for the good of the team and would get over it quick smart.
Old enough to know your thinking is stupid. Why would a played get over being dropped every second week for what ever reason. This is their livelyhood. If they sre dropped depending on contracts they lose money. No good for them or the team. Dont know to many teams who have done what you want and succeeded in any sport. Happy for you to name a few though. As for your quote these guys are tougher than you think. How do you know that? Do you know many players? By the way are you involved in any team sport?
PJ wrote:I personally think Bakes is completely safe....Rosco knows what he does week in and week out without fail - pressure, pressure and more pressure. I've seen him beaten in contests but he just keeps coming back at you, kind of like an angry ferret.
Couldn't agree more...I can't see that he's in too much danger. 99.9% of the Collingwood team are lucky to finish a game with a bit of mud on their knee, whereas Bakes can't finish a game without blood soaked bandages wrapped around his head! He's 100% at the ball whenever it's near him, half of what he does won't rate as a possession, but is just as important.
