Why??

[kaos theory]

Because of our long history of failures (i.e. lack of success), saints supporters always think the worst is coming for the club.

Its our default emotion. We are tragic fatalist. So, if we are not hot favourites for the flag, then we are heading into oblivion, that's the way it is with us, there is no middle ground.

Therefore, supporters sulk, moan & don't by stuff & head back into the woodwork.

Then we get the strange suggestions to 'fix' things:

I can't believe some people here wanted RB back. Incredible. He started the disruption at the club, failed to get a deal with Moorabbin, failed to spend on the footy department, which was spiraling into a joke (with high injuries & poor recruiting), hired Archie, and hired RL and the playing style we have had over the last few years.

Then we have the fantasy world views of moving our base back into the inner city (e.g. st.kilda). What a great idea! I suggest we actually move right into the heart of the city. We should take over the top 5 floors of 101 Collins street, and set up our admin and training facilities, there, and turn the Treasury Gardens into our own private oval. That way, I can walk down at lunchtime and watch the boys train.

Some mentioned the Hawks. A good example. They were a nomad club, if there ever was one. They have the worst colour combinations of any vic club, and played and trained all over the place.

But what they did get right was on the field and won plenty of flags in the 80s. That creates supporters, and lots of them 10 to 20 years later...

We have done extremely well to have the base of supporters we do, given our history.

But it’s going to get harder, because there is so many other activities and interests to draw kids away. We need to build to a point of being a regular player in finals, and getting a chance at a flag. We are doing that, but we need to get a high-quality training base, work harder on recruiting quality down the list, better developing the players we get on the list, play an exciting brand of football, and then take our chances when they come.

It is plainly evident, that the current admin is aware of this, and is putting those things in place, and its only just moving into its second year (witness the improvement in injury management, player recruiting, & deal with Seaford).

Let’s at least see the team play a few actual footy games before we let our fatalist tendencies doom everything we do…

[barks4eva]

I can't believe some people here wanted RB back...........and hired RL and the playing style we have had over the last few years.

Ross Lyon is one of the real positives that the club has going for it and that is something we will all have to thank Rod Butterss for eventually!

As usual though the premature ejaculation of St Kilda supporters, the very same thing that saw the end of the Butterss administration, continues with those that cannot see that Ross Lyon is now rebuilding the list in a very positive way, he's an astute football thinker, great tactically and the onfield excitement and success will come, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen!

St Kilda is very lucky to have the coach we have, another reason why Butterss should have been given at least one more year!

[kaos theory]

As usual though the premature ejaculation of St Kilda supporters, the very same thing that saw the end of the Butterss administration, continues with those that cannot see that Ross Lyon is now rebuilding the list in a very positive way, he's an astute football thinker, great tactically and the onfield excitement and success will come, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen

Nice selective quoting barks....

Firstly, you ignored all the negatives I highlighted about RB, and just highlighted RL, and secondly, I'm a supprter of RL & agree with most of what you say about him, that's why the current admin gave him a contract extension.

Its the way in which RB went about the GT/RL change over that was poor.

[st.byron]

If the fairies can be kicked out of the Palais Theatre it could be converted into a social club.

which fairies in the Palais?

[evertonfc]

Let's get a few things straight.

- We absolutely got rid of Rod Buttress at the right time. I cannot state this loud enough. I cannot make it clear enough without expressing details that are not for public consumption. But we had to let move on from Rod - don't let the best years of his presidency (2002-04) cloud what he had become by 2008.

- Did we rush in with Westaway/FF? Perhaps, but I still think it was the right move because we had not other alternative. And they have, to a point, steadied the ship without a CEO or coach of their choosing and have invested back into the football department - something Buttress had worked against ever since our overseas expeditions.

- What he has yet to do (I won't say failed, because it's still early in his presidency), is help foster a sense of community and belonging about St Kilda FC. It's only very simple gestures that could make a difference, gestures that would make us feel a part of something worthwhile. Otherwise, what is the whole point of a club? To watch over-paid athelets boot some pigskin around the park for 44 hours a year? In the early days of GT and RB, they were excellent at this. Actively encouraging fans to get to training; looking after struggling ex-players, getting in contact with fans (remember the old Saints.com.au chat?) - it felt like they wanted us to be part of the club. We need that feeling back.

- Do we need to re-connect with St Kilda, the area? You better believe it. We're the bayside club these days, and that's great, but why we're not tapping into the rich tapestry of St Kilda is mystifying. It doesn't take much. I can think of quite a few things we could do instantly to re-connect with the area without compromising our bayside growth..

- Are we lucky to have Ross Lyon? We'll find out in the next year.

[n1ck]

Let's get a few things straight.

- We absolutely got rid of Rod Buttress at the right time. I cannot state this loud enough. I cannot make it clear enough without expressing details that are not for public consumption. But we had to let move on from Rod - don't let the best years of his presidency (2002-04) cloud what he had become by 2008.

- Did we rush in with Westaway/FF? Perhaps, but I still think it was the right move because we had not other alternative. And they have, to a point, steadied the ship without a CEO or coach of their choosing and have invested back into the football department - something Buttress had worked against ever since our overseas expeditions.

- What he has yet to do (I won't say failed, because it's still early in his presidency), is help foster a sense of community and belonging about St Kilda FC. It's only very simple gestures that could make a difference, gestures that would make us feel a part of something worthwhile. Otherwise, what is the whole point of a club? To watch over-paid athelets boot some pigskin around the park for 44 hours a year? In the early days of GT and RB, they were excellent at this. Actively encouraging fans to get to training; looking after struggling ex-players, getting in contact with fans (remember the old Saints.com.au chat?) - it felt like they wanted us to be part of the club. We need that feeling back.

- Do we need to re-connect with St Kilda, the area? You better believe it. We're the bayside club these days, and that's great, but why we're not tapping into the rich tapestry of St Kilda is mystifying. It doesn't take much. I can think of quite a few things we could do instantly to re-connect with the area without compromising our bayside growth..

- Are we lucky to have Ross Lyon? We'll find out in the next year.

Good post.

Agree 100%

[Teflon]

Funny thing perception.

Some bang on about how connected we were under GT/Butters cause GT logged in to an online chat every now and again trotting out cliches and acting like JC for about half hour. Somehow this made people feel connected to the club? WTF? These people must need mum to still tell them the boogy man aint real and everything will be allright in the morning.

I too talked to GT in those chats, Butters at family days - never felt anymore connected because of that than I do now?

I felt connected cause I felt we had just recruited a super list with great kids and the likes of Gehrig/Hamills to complement...now I recognise things for what they are.

The champions aka Harveys are gone. The Hamills, Gehrigs, Thompsons, Jones, Powells, Pecketts are also gone.

Our only TRULY elite footballer is our Captain (elite being in the top 3 of his position in the comp), some of our new superstars havent materialised as we'd all imagined and the gap between our best and our second stringer brigade is the biggest its been in 7 years.

I can't honestly help the feeling that we are further away from a flag than we were for these reasons...a little annoyed that we didnt do ALL we could to get it right when the chances were there but I still feel connected though - I dont need an internet chat to change that and I dont give up on the club for that.

Im not saying we cant win the flag - but you get the feel a lot more nowadays has to go right for us and wrong for Hawks/ Cats/ Dogs to get there and perhaps the gaps to Richmond/Carltons are closing. Thats footy - its a cycle.

We also still have upside and are now in a place where we MUST recruit from the top end of the table (no more Riewoldts/Kosi/Goddard gifts) - its going to require astute draft/rookie/scholarship selections IF we are to give our good core the support they need to go all the way. Its why IMO Lyon has a tough job and NOT the dream team many try and con you into believing we are.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Perhaps a dose of reality for those who expect St Kilda to be amongst the powerhouses of the AFL right now.

First off, we've got the interstate powerhouses:
-Adelaide
-West Coast
-Brisbane

Able to draw on entire cities, even in Brisbane where the sport is #3 behind Rugby and daylight, able to charge a premium from those.

The interstate basket cases:
-Fremantle
-Port Adelaide

Can both draw on a small base of ardent supporters, and follow up witht he avid haters of their areas main teams.

Comparatively, St Kilda draws on the small base of ardent supporters. I would be surprised to learn any meaningful demographic of these supporters were centred in St Kilda compared to the rest of the South Eastern part of Melbourne.

Then there's Sydney. Don't know too much about the Swans membership etc. beyond the passionate Melbourne based fans I know, but I'd bet they'd be up with the other interstate clubs.

Combine those with:
Essendon (40+k membership)
Collingwood (a law unto themselves)
and Carlton (coming back from the great beyond...)

Who are a seperate tier compared to most of the Melbourne clubs. Recently they're being challenged by Hawthorn whose success after years in the wildernees combined with very effective membership drives has pushed them into another sphere.

That's 10 teams in a 16 team league. It leaves us competing with Geelong (been a little bit good lately....), Richmond (the Cousins factor), North (people paying to keep them in Melbourne right now), the Bulldogs (rocketed up the ladder last year), and Melbourne (true basket case) in the bottom end.

Without a large and fundamental shift, we're not likely to compete for the top, or even middle of the members and money dept. All this talk of boards, presidents etc. misses the forest for the trees... Moving to St Kilda surely isn't the way - taking ownership of Frankston might, eventually[/] give us some hope of moving up the class system of proffessional sports franchises.

For the time being, take a deep breath, be thankful we're not surviving on handouts, and recognise that our place on the financial and fanbase ladder is a long term issue requiring a long term solution (should we join the Collingwood's of the world in status, it likely won't even be Westaway's successor at the helm to take credit), not a direct result of recent history requiring a scapegoat.

[barks4eva]

As usual though the premature ejaculation of St Kilda supporters, the very same thing that saw the end of the Butterss administration, continues with those that cannot see that Ross Lyon is now rebuilding the list in a very positive way, he's an astute football thinker, great tactically and the onfield excitement and success will come, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen

Nice selective quoting barks....

Firstly, you ignored all the negatives I highlighted about RB, and just highlighted RL, and secondly, I'm a supprter of RL & agree with most of what you say about him, that's why the current admin gave him a contract extension.

Its the way in which RB went about the GT/RL change over that was poor.

Ok, if you insist!

I can't believe some people here wanted RB back. Incredible. He started the disruption at the club, failed to get a deal with Moorabbin, failed to spend on the footy department, which was spiraling into a joke (with high injuries & poor recruiting), hired Archie, and hired RL and the playing style we have had over the last few years.

he started the disruption you wrote.............

Yes he did appoint Thomas as coach and initially did allow him to have full control of the football department, which helped minimize expenditure, so he was responsible for this, agreed

this led to a compromised football department with Thomas insisting on full control and as things seemed to be fairly rosy in 2004 and 2005, he didn't rock the boat and allowed this situation to continue, which in hindsight was a huge mistake

BUT

he was already addressing this and restructuring the football department even before he was voted out,

Noting in 2006 the club spent $250,000 resurfacing Moorabbin and $90,000 on extra gym equipment, so the spending had already started

Sure there was some penny pinching in the first few years to help get the club back in the black and it did deliver million dollar profits five years running to put the club in a much better position financially to then address these areas of concern, which the Butterss admin had already started to spend on,

Yes he also hired AF, which has now led to the Seaford relocation as a result, so don't think I'm so enamored with him, but I know Butterss is vehemently opposed to the Seaford reloaction and was seeking to locate the club back to the St Kilda area or at least somewhere between Port Melbourne and Sandringham, if Moorabbin was out of the equation.

Now the club is heading further south on all accounts!

We can just hope that we win a premiership before Riewoldt, Goddard, Hayes, etc.... are retired, otherwise with 18 teams in the comp, St Kilda located in the backblocks of Seaford, and when the cycle turns with us once again near the bottom, this will translate into a dwindling membership and then the shyte really will have hit the fan!

Many on here say it's just a training facility and don't give a rat's where it's located, each are entitled to their view, but I happen to know that the players are not happen with the Seaford location and this ultimately is why the club should be locating to an area which is appealing to not just the players of today but future stars we try to attract to our club.

What would be more appealing than having St Kilda based once again in St Kilda or nearby, the most marketable suburb in Victoria and this would make us a very marketable and appealing club for not only the players for now and into the future, but also with the media and we would really stand for something to market and attract in respect to both players and members!

We cannot compete with the Collingwood's for example who have the Lexus centre near the city when we will have an inferior facility located in the back blocks of Seaford!

Even the Western Bulldogs will have a superior facility located at the Whitten Oval!

Are you really satisfied with this outcome?

A vote for Butterss would have eventually delivered a training facility at Moorabbin or closer to the city, FFS just send the club further south, one step closer to another relocation or a merger!

That is why I would have liked Butterss to have been given at least one more year!

[evertonfc]

Some bang on about how connected we were under GT/Butters cause GT logged in to an online chat every now and again trotting out cliches and acting like JC for about half hour. Somehow this made people feel connected to the club? WTF? These people must need mum to still tell them the boogy man aint real and everything will be allright in the morning.

It was just one example of one little thing that made a positive difference - but ah yes, selective quoting, that's the wonder of Internet forums. There's nothing wrong with the club embracing its supporter base (What a novel concept!) and it's especially the small things that count.

And that so many people are coming to a similar conclusion - hell, it was even raised at the AGM - suggests there is an issue about how the feeling of 'club' needs addressing. Especially in these times where money is everything and sport is merging into 'entertainment'; fans are becoming 'customers'.

If you like being treated as a customer rather than a member - great - the bean counters and suits are winning.

I just reckon footy is about more than that. We should be angling against St Kilda becoming simply a business model.

It's a football club. A club. Otherwise, well, why not sell our name to Jeld-Wen and become the Jeld-Wen Saints? Seriously?

[n1ck]

Some bang on about how connected we were under GT/Butters cause GT logged in to an online chat every now and again trotting out cliches and acting like JC for about half hour. Somehow this made people feel connected to the club? WTF? These people must need mum to still tell them the boogy man aint real and everything will be allright in the morning.

It was just one example of one little thing that made a positive difference - but ah yes, selective quoting, that's the wonder of Internet forums. There's nothing wrong with the club embracing its supporter base (What a novel concept!) and it's especially the small things that count.

And that so many people are coming to a similar conclusion - hell, it was even raised at the AGM - suggests there is an issue about how the feeling of 'club' needs addressing. Especially in these times where money is everything and sport is merging into 'entertainment'; fans are becoming 'customers'.

If you like being treated as a customer rather than a member - great - the bean counters and suits are winning.

I just reckon footy is about more than that. We should be angling against St Kilda becoming simply a business model.

It's a football club. A club. Otherwise, well, why not sell our name to Jeld-Wen and become the Jeld-Wen Saints? Seriously?

Good post.

Agree 100%

Again.

[Teflon]

Some bang on about how connected we were under GT/Butters cause GT logged in to an online chat every now and again trotting out cliches and acting like JC for about half hour. Somehow this made people feel connected to the club? WTF? These people must need mum to still tell them the boogy man aint real and everything will be allright in the morning.

It was just one example of one little thing that made a positive difference - but ah yes, selective quoting, that's the wonder of Internet forums. There's nothing wrong with the club embracing its supporter base (What a novel concept!) and it's especially the small things that count.

And that so many people are coming to a similar conclusion - hell, it was even raised at the AGM - suggests there is an issue about how the feeling of 'club' needs addressing. Especially in these times where money is everything and sport is merging into 'entertainment'; fans are becoming 'customers'.

If you like being treated as a customer rather than a member - great - the bean counters and suits are winning.

I just reckon footy is about more than that. We should be angling against St Kilda becoming simply a business model.

It's a football club. A club. Otherwise, well, why not sell our name to Jeld-Wen and become the Jeld-Wen Saints? Seriously?

Firstly to selectively quote you......I'd have to at least quote you......but ah yes.....you'd know that being the sites resident Journalist in waiting (or was that wanting?)

That aside, the bleatings of "the suits are winning" is such a tired cliche Im dumbfounded you'd trot it out again. Ofcourse they are.

Football is a business - if you dont run it like a business then expect to go out of business quick and you can then get your club "fix" down at the local darts comp. Seriously - dont pander to the corporates then simply go broke (ask the Dees/Dogs....but then..... if your lamington drives can save us from financial ruin Im all ears).

I get my sense of "club" from the colors, from players like Robert Harvey and now hopefully the Riewoldts/Hayes that follow suit. I dont need a book or weekly email from the club to tell me this club has a history and a soul - that exists within the supporters NOT the walls of a dilapidated stadium or through on line chats....

Geez Id argue AFL clubs aint been real "clubs" for years - so what? - that doesnt diminish my love for all things Saints...that's a far more personal thing that goes to the heart of being a supporter.

Would I like a shiny bistro where I could have a steak and look at black/white pics of legends past while enjoying a few beers? - yep who wouldnt and we may in time see that. But to do that we need to lean on a few more "suits" to make sure we survive that long....ah...the corporate buggers again....

If its social connectivity your really in need of I'd recommend the Scouts.

[rodgerfox]

St Kilda is very lucky to have the coach we have, another reason why Butterss should have been given at least one more year!

Why?

We already had Lyon - so why does that mean we keep Butterss for another?

Doesn't add up. Do you mean he should have stayed on as some sort of reward? I certainly hope that isn't what you're saying.

[barks4eva]

St Kilda is very lucky to have the coach we have, another reason why Butterss should have been given at least one more year!

Why?

We already had Lyon - so why does that mean we keep Butterss for another?

Doesn't add up. Do you mean he should have stayed on as some sort of reward? I certainly hope that isn't what you're saying.

Selective quoting dodgy!

Ross Lyon is a huge asset and eventually we will all have Rod Butterss to thank for his appointment!

Cheers

[ctqs]

Fans continually whinging instead of doing something about it doesn't help, ffs. Stop bagging the club and come up with some suggestions. It really 5h1ts me how the loser mentality is so quick to raise its head around this place. I honestly believe there'd be some people reading this who'll feel a tinge disappointed when we win the flag. I had one idiot tell me last year that he didn't even want to make the finals! WTF?

[rodgerfox]

St Kilda is very lucky to have the coach we have, another reason why Butterss should have been given at least one more year!

Why?

We already had Lyon - so why does that mean we keep Butterss for another?

Doesn't add up. Do you mean he should have stayed on as some sort of reward? I certainly hope that isn't what you're saying.

Selective quoting dodgy!

Ross Lyon is a huge asset and eventually we will all have Rod Butterss to thank for his appointment!

Cheers

I don't agree with Lyon being a huge asset as our head coach, but even if I did - why would that mean that Butterss should have stayed on?

I don't see the correlation.

[stinger]

I honestly believe there'd be some people reading this who'll feel a tinge disappointed when we win the flag. I had one idiot tell me last year that he didn't even want to make the finals! WTF?

won't be me mate....i will be pissed for a month...at least.....and i don't drink........

[ctqs]

I honestly believe there'd be some people reading this who'll feel a tinge disappointed when we win the flag. I had one idiot tell me last year that he didn't even want to make the finals! WTF?

won't be me mate....i will be pissed for a month...at least.....and i don't drink........

You and me both, mate!
Jeez I wish we had a bit more steel, if not mongrel, as supporters. Not arrogance or smugness, but just a few more hard-noses. I got stuck into a Carlton supporter a couple of weeks ago in front of a bar full of people because he was taking tired, cliched, out-of-date cheap shots at St Kilda and I wasn't going to stand for it so I gave it to him. In the end, I offered him a $1000 bet that we'd win a flag before they would. In front of everyone, he refused to take it.
Man that was sweet.
Onwards and upwards, Sainters. Onwards and upwards!

[barks4eva]

St Kilda is very lucky to have the coach we have, another reason why Butterss should have been given at least one more year!

Why?

We already had Lyon - so why does that mean we keep Butterss for another?

Doesn't add up. Do you mean he should have stayed on as some sort of reward? I certainly hope that isn't what you're saying.

Selective quoting dodgy!

Ross Lyon is a huge asset and eventually we will all have Rod Butterss to thank for his appointment!

Cheers

I don't agree with Lyon being a huge asset as our head coach, but even if I did - why would that mean that Butterss should have stayed on?

I don't see the correlation.

For me dodgy it's just an aside,

Butterss was vehemently opposed to relocating the club to Frankston, Seaford, Cranbourne or Casey and if Moorabbin was not an option was looking locate the club between Port Melbourne and Sandringham as close to St Kilda as possible!

I seriously believe this this is the best option for St Kilda football club to become a powerhouse, so that's why I wanted him to stay on, if for nothing else!

The new board at the whims of Archie Fraser are now relocating the club to the backblocks of Seaford!

That's the ONLY reason why I wanted Butterss to stay on, NOT because of the appointment of Ross Lyon, although in time we will have Butterss to thank for this, because IMHO Ross Lyon is a very good coach and we're fortunate to have him!

Capiche?

[evertonfc]

Firstly to selectively quote you......I'd have to at least quote you......but ah yes.....you'd know that being the sites resident Journalist in waiting (or was that wanting?)

That aside, the bleatings of "the suits are winning" is such a tired cliche Im dumbfounded you'd trot it out again. Ofcourse they are.

Football is a business - if you dont run it like a business then expect to go out of business quick and you can then get your club "fix" down at the local darts comp. Seriously - dont pander to the corporates then simply go broke (ask the Dees/Dogs....but then..... if your lamington drives can save us from financial ruin Im all ears).

I get my sense of "club" from the colors, from players like Robert Harvey and now hopefully the Riewoldts/Hayes that follow suit. I dont need a book or weekly email from the club to tell me this club has a history and a soul - that exists within the supporters NOT the walls of a dilapidated stadium or through on line chats....

Geez Id argue AFL clubs aint been real "clubs" for years - so what? - that doesnt diminish my love for all things Saints...that's a far more personal thing that goes to the heart of being a supporter.

Would I like a shiny bistro where I could have a steak and look at black/white pics of legends past while enjoying a few beers? - yep who wouldnt and we may in time see that. But to do that we need to lean on a few more "suits" to make sure we survive that long....ah...the corporate buggers again....

If its social connectivity your really in need of I'd recommend the Scouts.

That post started incredibly weirdly, got progressively odder and ended on an even more bizarre note.

Come on the Jeld-Wen Saints, eh?

[InkerSaint]

Count me in with kaos theory and evertonfc.

Wishing for Rod Butterss to have stayed on is the worst kind of negativism. You can't change the past. You can't change the scenario that saw St Kilda 16th in the comp for footy department spending and 1st in the comp for soft tissue injuries. Hell, even Greg Westaway has increased spending by $1.4m in the last year and the Saints are still 8th, trailing the top by $2.2m.

You can't change Butterss' financial entanglement with Thomas, the bickering via the media, and his estrangement with the rest of the administration. Butterss created his own demise and towards the end he was smart enough to see it for himself.

If you're not happy with the move to Seaford, and think Rod Butterss would have done something about it, then vent your anger at Rod Butterss.

[spert]

Look I want our club to have success on and off the field, and look forward to the start of every new season with passion, but as so many of my Sainter mates have said to me in one form or another -where's the passion this year, where's the media coverage, is anyone actually trying to flog memberships and so on -and I agree..the Saints seem practically non-existant, and many supporters I talk to around Vic just don't seem interested in the whole Seaford thing. butters is now past history, but I think Butters at least wanted the Saints to stay closer to the CBD to keep the profile up, I know he was passionate about the club, but at the same time a loose-cannon, he did keep the Saints in the headlines. I presume Westaway is actually a real person and not some ghost, but if the club goes backwards this year, he and his board and their supporters have lot to answer for.

[desertsaint]

Coming from the NT you might think the whole seaford relocation means squat to me - the saints still play at the dome, they still appear on the same tv channels, in the same comp, against the same teams. So why do i give a fig?

Because the future of the Vic clubs is shaky - there is no way all clubs will survive as it currently stands. And those clubs that compromise and take the easy option will be the first to go.

Sure a base near st kilda will be expensive, but weigh up the long term inplications.

There's a certain spirit to the area - my favourite area in melbourne, it's a part of the reason i follow the saints. It's a drawcard - to prospective players and supporters. It's part of who we are.

We can't afford to lose support, or fail to gain new supporters from the next generation. But why start following a team of little success who is located in some anonymous suburb you've never heard of?

Moving away from your traditional base might not seem much from a national perspective, but the further from your heart you move, a little of your soul gets lost.

[spert]

I agree desertsaint -passion takes along time to develop, and can be quickly extinguished. Unless I'm mistaken, for the games I went to last year, I thought the Saints supporters had lost their voices! I was really disappointed at the whimpers where loud roars used to be.

[barks4eva]

Coming from the NT you might think the whole seaford relocation means squat to me - the saints still play at the dome, they still appear on the same tv channels, in the same comp, against the same teams. So why do i give a fig?

Because the future of the Vic clubs is shaky - there is no way all clubs will survive as it currently stands. And those clubs that compromise and take the easy option will be the first to go.

Sure a base near st kilda will be expensive, but weigh up the long term inplications.

There's a certain spirit to the area - my favourite area in melbourne, it's a part of the reason i follow the saints. It's a drawcard - to prospective players and supporters. It's part of who we are.

We can't afford to lose support, or fail to gain new supporters from the next generation. But why start following a team of little success who is located in some anonymous suburb you've never heard of?

Moving away from your traditional base might not seem much from a national perspective, but the further from your heart you move, a little of your soul gets lost.

Exactly, agree 100%