Coach gets Lyon's share of credit

[joffaboy]

BTW - I thought Lyon comprehensively flogged Malthouse from the box last week......not bad for a guy sending us "backwards".

Yes all very good teffers but name one player that Lyon has developed

Terrible coach. Ending careers (you know the likes of Craig, Malthouse etc ) terrible defensive gameplan that the players wont embrace, the greatest list even assembled in the free world, and did I mention the gameplan where the team wont "man up" or "kick it down the guts"?

How can we possibly compete when we had the best there ever was and now have this Sydney clone????

Where is St.Kunny the acolyte? Where are his peearls about his blow up doll???

All been made idiots of.

[Teflon]

ya just gotta laugh Joffa...

George Bush was once quoted when asked why French people are the way they are:

"well they just dont have a word for entrepreneurial...."

we have so many Georges....

[saintsRrising]

Geeezee!!!!

The PENNY will not drop for some.

Just imagine last Saturday if GT was still in charge..


1/ Well we would have actually have finished outside the 8....but lets supsend belief and assume we were playing the Pies still.

2/ No Milne. He was to be offloaded to Essendon. Milne was the game breaker late in the second who opponed the floogates.

3/ No King. King dominated and not just the ruck, but his around the ground leadership. Kosi and Rix sharing the ruck would not have had anywhere near the impact.


4/ Lyons zoned defence worked a treat. Have never seen Malthouse so outcoached....

GT's pre-game advice was all out attack (he cannot move on from his outmoded cloned Brisbane Lions model). Malthouse would have loved it.


5/ No CJ to limit Leon.

6/ Most likely more injuries than we had.....

7/ Banger exited out already...

8/ No Schneider...


9/ No Casey playing finals as the bad blood would still be there = that our players would not have been developed as well as they have been.





Lyon is is still building and tinkering..and more improvement will come yet

He is putting all the piece of the jig-saw together.

[saintsRrising]

PS Anyone remember what Lyon said he wanted when he took over????

He wanted a ruckman...and more run through the midfield.

I saw both on show against the Pies.

[JeffDunne]

I think GT held his own against Malthouse . . . or was that the "list"?

sRr - you really do need to get a life.

[saintly]

Geeezee!!!!

The PENNY will not drop for some.

Just imagine last Saturday if GT was still in charge..


1/ Well we would have actually have finished outside the 8....but lets supsend belief and assume we were playing the Pies still.

2/ No Milne. He was to be offloaded to Essendon. Milne was the game breaker late in the second who opponed the floogates.

3/ No King. King dominated and not just the ruck, but his around the ground leadership. Kosi and Rix sharing the ruck would not have had anywhere near the impact.


4/ Lyons zoned defence worked a treat. Have never seen Malthouse so outcoached....

GT's pre-game advice was all out attack (he cannot move on from his outmoded cloned Brisbane Lions model). Malthouse would have loved it.


5/ No CJ to limit Leon.

6/ Most likely more injuries than we had.....

7/ Banger exited out already...

8/ No Schneider...


9/ No Casey playing finals as the bad blood would still be there = that our players would not have been developed as well as they have been.





Lyon is is still building and tinkering..and more improvement will come yet

He is putting all the piece of the jig-saw together.

just to correct one thing. Thmas did leave harvey to to decide for himself when to retire!

other than that. the above seems about right!

[rodgerfox]

Lyon has proven to be a master coach and list manager.

Accepting.... no, embracing mediocrity.

A spot in a prelim the work of a 'master coach'??

Gee whiz, the Saints faithful are pretty desperate these days!


Lyon has proven a couple of things. Here's qhat I think he has proven by getting our team into the top 4.....

He can handle pressure.
He can handle adversity.
He can get our good players to play well.
He has the support of the players.
He can coach a winning final side.


Now the above really, are the core responsibilities of the coach. So far, he's done them. So he's doing well.

The key fact that is yet to be proven, and the overall responsibility of a coach - is to the win a flag. That's missing from the above list obviously.

Master coach??

A tad over the top. If we win this week, then he's done extremely well and he'll have officially won me over as a genuine coach.

But if we get rolled, then clearly in any reasonably unbias footy supporters mind (by unbias I mean any footy fan that isn't childishly desperately trying to win a footy argument at any cost) he still just a coach that has done well this year.

Danny Frwly had Richmond in a Prelim remember. Hell, even Thomas had a team in successive Prelims!

[rodgerfox]

Geeezee!!!!

The PENNY will not drop for some.

Just imagine last Saturday if GT was still in charge..


1/ Well we would have actually have finished outside the 8....but lets supsend belief and assume we were playing the Pies still.

2/ No Milne. He was to be offloaded to Essendon. Milne was the game breaker late in the second who opponed the floogates.

3/ No King. King dominated and not just the ruck, but his around the ground leadership. Kosi and Rix sharing the ruck would not have had anywhere near the impact.


4/ Lyons zoned defence worked a treat. Have never seen Malthouse so outcoached....

GT's pre-game advice was all out attack (he cannot move on from his outmoded cloned Brisbane Lions model). Malthouse would have loved it.


5/ No CJ to limit Leon.

6/ Most likely more injuries than we had.....

7/ Banger exited out already...

8/ No Schneider...


9/ No Casey playing finals as the bad blood would still be there = that our players would not have been developed as well as they have been.





Lyon is is still building and tinkering..and more improvement will come yet

He is putting all the piece of the jig-saw together.

I'd argue that most could have coached that list to a win last Saturday night against Collingwood.

I think you might be giving the coach just a tad to much credit.

[markp]

I think GT held his own against Malthouse . . . or was that the "list"?

sRr - you really do need to get a life.

Held his own, you think.... Did he ever pants him?... In a final?

'Get a life' is really not a nice comment.

[markp]

If we win this week, then he's done extremely well and he'll have officially won me over as a genuine coach.

You have to win a prelim to be considered a genuine coach?

[rodgerfox]

If we win this week, then he's done extremely well and he'll have officially won me over as a genuine coach.

You have to win a prelim to be considered a genuine coach?

Not as a rule neccessarily.

But in his career, he has won 1 final as a coach with a very, very good list of talent.

At this point, he's done well. That's all in my view.

Consistency is key - for a coach just as much as players. One season does prove much.

[WayneJudson42]

He can handle pressure.
He can handle adversity.
He can get our good players to play well.
He has the support of the players.
He can coach a winning final side.

I'd argue that most could have coached that list to a win last Saturday night against Collingwood.

Accepting.... no, embracing mediocrity.

Agree... ALL key ingredients to the makings of a Master Coach.

I'd argue that anyone could have coached our 04 and 05 squad to Prelims.

Make no mistake, we want a flag. But let's be honest... all the cabbages wanting him sacked, stating that he was destroying careers, and that players ere going backwards (and I'm not refering to Tempo footy) have some serious egg on their face.

I'd also argue that all these "reactionaries" are the ones who embrace mediocrity by buckling at the knees as soon as something does not go to thier expectations... by seeking hysterical remedies such as sacking coaches.

Stick that up ya fox hole.

Go Saints!!

[rodgerfox]

I'd argue that anyone could have coached our 04 and 05 squad to Prelims.

What would be the relevance of that argument???

[saint66au]

Make no mistake, we want a flag. But let's be honest... all the cabbages wanting him sacked, stating that he was destroying careers, and that players ere going backwards (and I'm not refering to Tempo footy) have some serious egg on their face.

I'd also argue that all these "reactionaries" are the ones who embrace mediocrity by buckling at the knees as soon as something does not go to thier expectations... by seeking hysterical remedies such as sacking coaches.

Well said that man

Does it seem strange that some talk GT up for getting us to 2 successive prelims, yet accuse others of "accepting mediocrity" when lauding Ross for getting us to one this year?

[Saints43]

1/ Well we would have actually have finished outside the 8....but lets supsend belief and assume we were playing the Pies still.

What is that statement based on?

2/ No Milne. He was to be offloaded to Essendon. Milne was the game breaker late in the second who opponed the floogates.

Milne would be gone.

3/ No King. King dominated and not just the ruck, but his around the ground leadership. Kosi and Rix sharing the ruck would not have had anywhere near the impact.

I didn't realise Geelong offered St Kilda King for a pick they did not need when GT was there. He did try to recruit Brogan, Cox, Lade etc.

4/ Lyons zoned defence worked a treat. Have never seen Malthouse so outcoached....

GT's pre-game advice was all out attack (he cannot move on from his outmoded cloned Brisbane Lions model). Malthouse would have loved it.

I think you want to go and have a look at the players C'wood had on the park. I'm pretty sure we would have coped with that team at most points since 2004. Except RLs forst 18 months. See results.

Remember Voss leaving the backline to play a defensive forward role on C.Cornes in the 2004 prelim? C.Cornes had carved teams up all year. Who was the first coach to play a defensive forward on him? How many times had it been done prior to that game?

5/ No CJ to limit Leon.

CJ. AFL's only tagger.

6/ Most likely more injuries than we had.....

Agree

7/ Banger exited out already...

This is why you get called a liar. You live in Melbourne and so would have heard GT making that statement in it's full context. He said that he would look to 'exit harvey out rather than exit him in'. He would make sure that Harvey's decision was best for Harvey and the club.

8/ No Schneider...

How do you know that? Is that based on GT's refusal to trade for players?

9/ No Casey playing finals as the bad blood would still be there = that our players would not have been developed as well as they have been.

You know that Casey would not have played finals if GT was still there?

Lyon is is still building and tinkering..and more improvement will come yet

He is putting all the piece of the jig-saw together.

Lyon is starting to get the best from the list. That's his job.

It's the posters who argued that for the first 18 months of his tenure that RL was achieving nearly all that was possible with the on-field and off-field resources at his disposal whos initial premise was incorrect.

You were the ones who were satisfied for this club to be out of finals contention.

[rodgerfox]

I'd also argue that all these "reactionaries" are the ones who embrace mediocrity by buckling at the knees as soon as something does not go to thier expectations... by seeking hysterical remedies such as sacking coaches.

And that's the childish, immature attitude that has degraded this forum to a sesspool of abuse and angst.

So you disagreed with someone on a footy matter you've never met, don't know, know nothing about and will never meet - so you now dedicate the next 6 months of your life ridiculing them because you now feel you were right, and they were wrong??


That's Saintsation for you!!

[rodgerfox]

Does it seem strange that some talk GT up for getting us to 2 successive prelims, yet accuse others of "accepting mediocrity" when lauding Ross for getting us to one this year?

I can only speak for myself here, but all I have ever said is that Thomas was a 'good' coach.

That is all I've ever said in regards to the standing I gave him as a coach.


I don't think many, if any, referred to Thomas as a 'master coach', regardless of the fact that he coached successive prelims and to finals 3 years in a row.

Unless you win a GF, or even make one, you're just a 'good' coach.


Thomas is no different. Nor is Lyon.

[JeffDunne]

I think GT held his own against Malthouse . . . or was that the "list"?

sRr - you really do need to get a life.

Held his own, you think.... Did he ever pants him?... In a final?

Did he ever face him in a final?

What a strange question.

As for the first part of you question, yes he did, in fact in the last two games he coached against Malthouse. A 10 & 12 goal win is what I'd call pansted.

'Get a life' is really not a nice comment.

Really?

[markp]

Sorry rodge, after making the prelim RL is still 'just a coach'... if we win on saturday RL is a 'genuine coach'... but GT never won a prelim, and was a 'good coach'...

Is 'genuine' better than 'good'?

[markp]

'Get a life' is really not a nice comment.

Really?

Yup.

[WayneJudson42]

I'd also argue that all these "reactionaries" are the ones who embrace mediocrity by buckling at the knees as soon as something does not go to thier expectations... by seeking hysterical remedies such as sacking coaches.

And that's the childish, immature attitude that has degraded this forum to a sesspool of abuse and angst.

So you disagreed with someone on a footy matter you've never met, don't know, know nothing about and will never meet - so you now dedicate the next 6 months of your life ridiculing them because you now feel you were right, and they were wrong??

That's Saintsation for you!!

Mate, I've been saying all along to give RL time to get things together, so in my view, people calling for him to be sacked were reactionary... and I'll stand by that 100%. I'm not ridiculing anyone.

Dude, you really gotta lighten up. Note that there were smiley faces with comments?

All a bit of fun AFAIAC.

You're not a school pricipal by any chance?

And that's the childish, immature attitude that has degraded this forum to a sesspool of abuse and angst.

And that's the type of hypocritic comment coming from someone who doesn't know me, and calls me "full of shyt" after my first post... that set's the example and tone for future debate.

Now you feign indignation??? FFS. I have nothing against you, but can see why some people take every opportunity to take you down.

Like I said, lighten up Rodge. My comments are in jest, and frankly, if we have to respect other's opinions, we are also entitled to giving them a ribbing when we can.

I can't speak for others, but I'm having a bit of fun.

[JeffDunne]

'Get a life' is really not a nice comment.

Really?

Yup.

Personally I thought it was pretty sound advice.

[timtam]

Geeezee!!!!

The PENNY will not drop for some.

Just imagine last Saturday if GT was still in charge..


1/ Well we would have actually have finished outside the 8....but lets supsend belief and assume we were playing the Pies still.

2/ No Milne. He was to be offloaded to Essendon. Milne was the game breaker late in the second who opponed the floogates.

3/ No King. King dominated and not just the ruck, but his around the ground leadership. Kosi and Rix sharing the ruck would not have had anywhere near the impact.


4/ Lyons zoned defence worked a treat. Have never seen Malthouse so outcoached....

GT's pre-game advice was all out attack (he cannot move on from his outmoded cloned Brisbane Lions model). Malthouse would have loved it.


5/ No CJ to limit Leon.

6/ Most likely more injuries than we had.....

7/ Banger exited out already...

8/ No Schneider...


9/ No Casey playing finals as the bad blood would still be there = that our players would not have been developed as well as they have been.





Lyon is is still building and tinkering..and more improvement will come yet

He is putting all the piece of the jig-saw together.

You forgot number 10!!!

10/ He would still be mouthing off at the umpires and we would be getting less free kicks and would have more 'whispers in the sky' type sagas......

Seriously, the guy only had time for the 'ivy league' players. Milne never fitted into that mould and GT made it perfectly clear early in the year when he was chatting with Brereton on the radio that Harvey went one year too long and he would not be playing if he was coaching.

Well done RL, really excited with where our team is heading! They don't seem to have the same sort of mental fragility that they did under GT!

[JeffDunne]

They don't seem to have the same sort of mental fragility that they did under GT!

A week is definately a looooong time in football.

[rodgerfox]

Sorry rodge, after making the prelim RL is still 'just a coach'... if we win on saturday RL is a 'genuine coach'... but GT never won a prelim, and was a 'good coach'...

Is 'genuine' better than 'good'?

If we finish 12th next year, saying Lyon is a good coach would be wrong.

If we continue to improve or at least maintain what we've achieved this year, then absolutely, another prelim would definately make Lyon a 'good' coach in my book.