If GT was still in charge....

[JeffDunne]

Pointless question.

I have a better one though for the GT haters.

We read time and time again from the same people about GT's tactical deficiencies but rarely do we ever see specific cases quoted where opposition coaches tore him a new one.

Would someone like to cite an example of where GT was comprehensively beaten in the coaches box in an important game?

Lyon is supposed to be a tactical genius but there’s hardly a week where he doesn’t get at least one matchup horribly wrong.

I hear GT didn’t rate ruckman and played Blake & Kosi in the ruck. I hear too that GT had only a plan A, which involved bombing it long to our forwards. I believe too his selections were poor because he played players like Fiora, Mini & Gwilt.

I’m glad Ross isn’t making those sort of tactical ‘blunders’.


This should be an easy challenge for the GT haters out there.

I don't consider myself a 'GT hater' but you asked for 1?

Round 12, 2004 vs Bulldogs at MCG.
GT started Lenny on the bench for most of the first quarter whilst the Bulldogs tore us a 'new one'.

A 'great move' which seemed to work really well!

They did?

I thought we were leading that game at 1/4 time and lost it in the 2nd half?

I could be wrong.

[kaos theory]

Highly unlucky with injuries in 05,and 04 even

This is BS. He wasn't unlucky, our player development and huge injury lists back then were a result of neglect in key areas of the footy deprtment by GT & RB.

GT focused on a few things, and neglected other key areas.

He was good at focusing the team mentally, and got good results, but weaknesses were developing in other areas (player development & injury management)....He was not prepared to relinquish control in other areas of the footy deprtment. If he was, then he might still have the job.

RL is the opposite of GT....But I'm not sure we needed an opposite to GT, rather, we need someone in-between RL & GT in approach.

I am very dissapointed with RL and his failure to extract good results out of the team over the last 3 weeks. He is still learning I guess, but that is not really a step up from GT, its a sideways move.....

[rodgerfox]

With our depth of 04 and 05, we should have been unbeatable. Injuries certainly crippled our campaigns and it looks as though the champions that could have been will never be, too many bodies carrying too many scars. Arguable that GT may have taken us to a flag if we'd had better luck with injuries, but also arguable that our list was so good that he didn't really do much coaching at all and that a trained monkey could have done just as good a job. I'm not an expert on game plans but from what I saw it was a straight attack down the center corridor tactic which was effective the majority of the time, but it wasn't long before other top-four rivals figured out how to beat us and once that happened there was no plan B.

Also arguable that we had some serious flaws in our fitness and condition management which, as coach and experienced football director, should have been cracked down on and addressed early into our 05 campaign, not defended as a continuous bout of bad luck.

I am just perplexed that people still believe this garbage.

Seriously, with the state we're in now, do you seriously still believe this?

[Mr Magic]

I could be wrong.

I wasn't aware that was possible?

[rodgerfox]

RL is the opposite of GT....But I'm not sure we needed an opposite to GT, rather, we need someone in-between RL & GT in approach.

That's quite a good comment.

Although I don't think at the time we needed anyone different to GT personally. What we needed was someone different to RB.

[kaos theory]

I am just perplexed that people still believe this garbage.

Seriously, with the state we're in now, do you seriously still believe this?

Its NOT garbage roger. GT had qualities but he & RB neglected key areas of palyer development & injury management. The cliche thing to say is that he was 'unlucky' with injuries.....that is complete BS. Our injury management is miles better these days.

BUT, you are right to note that currently we are not getting any better....The last 3 weeks has me concerned. I'm concerned that RL has been unable to get the best out of the players he has available....I'm concerned he is still learning, and that is not a step up form GT...I'm concerned that well into his second yr, he can't get an attacking style of player going effectively.

[kaos theory]

Although I don't think at the time we needed anyone different to GT personally. What we needed was someone different to RB

Yes, but GT needed to let go control of some other areas. IF he did that, then I would have been happy to give him another year, at least. Thompson went through this at geelong, but GT wasn't prepared to do that.....or at least that is what RB & the management said at the time...

[Mr Magic]

Although I don't think at the time we needed anyone different to GT personally. What we needed was someone different to RB

Yes, but GT needed to let go control of some other areas. IF he did that, then I would have been happy to give him another year, at least. Thompson went through this at geelong, but GT wasn't prepared to do that.....or at least that is what RB & the management said at the time...

and AFAIK no-one has pubicly 'disputed' that version of events since?

[rodgerfox]

I am just perplexed that people still believe this garbage.

Seriously, with the state we're in now, do you seriously still believe this?

Its NOT garbage roger. GT had qualities but he & RB neglected key areas of palyer development & injury management. The cliche thing to say is that he was 'unlucky' with injuries.....that is complete BS. Our injury management is miles better these days.

BUT, you are right to note that currently we are not getting any better....The last 3 weeks has me concerned. I'm concerned that RL has been unable to get the best out of the players he has available....I'm concerned he is still learning, and that is not a step up form GT...I'm concerned that well into his second yr, he can't get an attacking style of player going effectively.

The 'it wasn't luck' with injuries I can accept as a theory - although I disagree entirely. We currently have Baker out, X out, Ball out, Gram on one leg, and Max just back in.

What I was referring to as rubbish was the 'no Plan B' stuff, the 'this list could coach itself' stuff.

I'm just perplexed that this train of thought still exists considering what we've seen over the past 2 years.

[rodgerfox]

Although I don't think at the time we needed anyone different to GT personally. What we needed was someone different to RB

Yes, but GT needed to let go control of some other areas. IF he did that, then I would have been happy to give him another year, at least. Thompson went through this at geelong, but GT wasn't prepared to do that.....or at least that is what RB & the management said at the time...

So we were coming off 14 wins in a season where we travelled 7 times, had 11 6 day breaks, the worst injury list in the comp (including no Lenny Hayes and Maguire at the business end), and having just lost a 'home' final (which incidentally was played at our opponents home ground) in the last 10 minutes after losing 4 key players during the game - but we sacked a coach because our Board didn't have the power to implement a structure that they wanted?

We chose to cut off our nose, despite our face. To throw the baby out with the bath water. Etc. etc.

All we needed was a Board that could actually do what it is they are empowered to do. Not sack the coach who had just had his team, under huge adversity, notch up 14 wins and finish only % off the top 4 for the 3rd straight year. All the Board needed to do was implment what it is that it is their job to do.

Sacking the coach at that time, was the worst possible decision that could have been made. I said it at the time, and I still say it.

[saintly]

With our depth of 04 and 05, we should have been unbeatable. Injuries certainly crippled our campaigns and it looks as though the champions that could have been will never be, too many bodies carrying too many scars. Arguable that GT may have taken us to a flag if we'd had better luck with injuries, but also arguable that our list was so good that he didn't really do much coaching at all and that a trained monkey could have done just as good a job. I'm not an expert on game plans but from what I saw it was a straight attack down the center corridor tactic which was effective the majority of the time, but it wasn't long before other top-four rivals figured out how to beat us and once that happened there was no plan B.

Also arguable that we had some serious flaws in our fitness and condition management which, as coach and experienced football director, should have been cracked down on and addressed early into our 05 campaign, not defended as a continuous bout of bad luck.

With no plan B. GT then changed assistant coaches and got in... sorry forgot his name. he got out of the coaching game..

then not only the injury management bacame a problem that wasn't fixed, but also developing players, having rookies onlists. having a relationship with casey

[bigred]

We are so s*** my head hurts.

How on earth did this club get into this position.

[spert]

Can we we just bugger off with this Thomas talk -he is long long gone. what if Alves was still here, or Tony Jewell..who cares.

[Eastern]

We are so s*** my head hurts.

Are you sure that is why your head hurts? I've been told that performances like Saturday Night's would turn many to drink !!

[rodgerfox]

With our depth of 04 and 05, we should have been unbeatable. Injuries certainly crippled our campaigns and it looks as though the champions that could have been will never be, too many bodies carrying too many scars. Arguable that GT may have taken us to a flag if we'd had better luck with injuries, but also arguable that our list was so good that he didn't really do much coaching at all and that a trained monkey could have done just as good a job. I'm not an expert on game plans but from what I saw it was a straight attack down the center corridor tactic which was effective the majority of the time, but it wasn't long before other top-four rivals figured out how to beat us and once that happened there was no plan B.

Also arguable that we had some serious flaws in our fitness and condition management which, as coach and experienced football director, should have been cracked down on and addressed early into our 05 campaign, not defended as a continuous bout of bad luck.

With no plan B. GT then changed assistant coaches and got in... sorry forgot his name. he got out of the coaching game..

then not only the injury management bacame a problem that wasn't fixed, but also developing players, having rookies onlists. having a relationship with casey

And all these disastrous flaws that have been brilliantly addressed - are helping us how?

[clobba]

2. Do you think the stability of a 6-year coach at St Kilda would have won us a flag?

Only if we had stuck with Blight

pigs arse

[clobba]

Clearly we'd be undefeated on our way to our second straight flag. Dal would have a brownlow and Roo would be getting a Coleman this year. Harvey would be playing on next year for a shot at three straight flags. Swimsuit models would throw themselves at ordinary Saints supporters. Ice cream would taste better. The sun would shine brighter. The grass would definately be greener.

Cant really remember what green is without looking at imaginary paddocks, because its awful brown on this side of the fence...

[Saints Premiers 2008]

the majority of the posts above show how much of a loser-ish supporter base we have

[Sobraz]

IMO its quite simple really.... GT had a great side and had an aggressive, good gameplan... We were unlucky due to injury, no doubt...

However, he could not identify talent in youngsters and topped up horribly... Drafting Ackland, Mcgough, Brooks, Watts, Rix et al instead of 17/18 years old cost us then, and now dearly... He didnt know younge talent if it rang rings around him...

At the time he said McGough was 'one of the best midfielders' in the comp... Ackland 'tore all other ruckman apart' in the preseason games... We all knew they were duds from day one and wasted picks... GT found out the hard way...

[mad saint guy]

I have a better one though for the GT haters.

We read time and time again from the same people about GT's tactical deficiencies but rarely do we ever see specific cases quoted where opposition coaches tore him a new one.

Would someone like to cite an example of where GT was comprehensively beaten in the coaches box in an important game?

This should be an easy challenge for the GT haters out there.

I don't consider myself a 'GT hater' but you asked for 1?

Round 12, 2004 vs Bulldogs at MCG.
GT started Lenny on the bench for most of the first quarter whilst the Bulldogs tore us a 'new one'.

A 'great move' which seemed to work really well!

They did?

I thought we were leading that game at 1/4 time and lost it in the 2nd half?

I could be wrong.

Correct. Up by 2 goals at quarter time, 15 points at half time and lost it from there on.

[WayneJudson42]

Pointless question.

I have a better one though for the GT haters.

We read time and time again from the same people about GT's tactical deficiencies but rarely do we ever see specific cases quoted where opposition coaches tore him a new one.

Would someone like to cite an example of where GT was comprehensively beaten in the coaches box in an important game?

Lyon is supposed to be a tactical genius but there’s hardly a week where he doesn’t get at least one matchup horribly wrong.

I hear GT didn’t rate ruckman and played Blake & Kosi in the ruck. I hear too that GT had only a plan A, which involved bombing it long to our forwards. I believe too his selections were poor because he played players like Fiora, Mini & Gwilt.

I’m glad Ross isn’t making those sort of tactical ‘blunders’.


This should be an easy challenge for the GT haters out there.

As everyone knows, I'm not a GT hater, but I can think of a few instances fairly quickly dating from 2004-06

Dogs in 2004

Bombers at TD 2005

Adelaide at TD 2005

Freo at Aurora 2005 (very lucky win)

Freo at Aurora 2006

The Cats in our first game against them in 2006

Not the Swans in the PF 2005: we were outgunned. Likewise the Dees in the 2006 EF: we were killed by injuries

Otherwise, we mainly only lost in that era when we were outgunned, killed by injuries or crucified by umps (games against Freo in 2005 and Port in 2006 spring quickly to mind).

What about agains WCE @ TD when Goose broke his leg?

And why exclude the 05 Prelim? Isn't it the coaches role to make changes and have the players "mentally" fired up at 3/4 time?

Or is that different?

Outgunned is a very polite excuse... we were spanked in some of those games.

he he, even GT admitted at times that he was "outcoached" FFS. Or was he lying?

[rodgerfox]

he he, even GT admitted at times that he was "outcoached" FFS. Or was he lying?

"I was outcoached" or "I didn't tell them to play like that".

Same thing.

Different approach.

Both get command different levels of respect from your playing group too.

[rodgerfox]

IMO its quite simple really.... GT had a great side and had an aggressive, good gameplan... We were unlucky due to injury, no doubt...

I don't think we had a 'great side' at all.

We had a good side, with a developing and talented list - which played like a great side.

Very different things.

[Saint Mik]

If GT was still coaching we would be fighting it out with the team that beat his more than caple side in that final for a decent draft pick.

The game has moved on from when he coached, he lost it well before he was given the arse, imagine what a mess we would be in if he was still there filling his pockets and making a mess of it all

And yet there are still some on here that would say at least we would have a number 1 draft pick

I'm so sick of GT and RB, move with the times people and stop looking over your shoulder, you are worse than some of our current group going for a hardball last Saturday night.

[Sobraz]

IMO its quite simple really.... GT had a great side and had an aggressive, good gameplan... We were unlucky due to injury, no doubt...

I don't think we had a 'great side' at all.

We had a good side, with a developing and talented list - which played like a great side.

Very different things.

OK, we can argue 'good' v's 'great' all day.. point is we had a quality side that was good enough to go all the way had things gone our way... GT's gameplan suited our strengths, and worked well.... Only problem is he lived for the present... as we now see, its now the past...