Armo

[degruch]

Do we have posters out there who's lives are so complete, they have to barrack for the St Kilda FC just to give them someone to heap s*** on? Honest, there's a lot of negative conjecture on this thread.

I'm as disappointed as anyone, that guys like Armo aren't in every week, but I think the post above in relation to easing guys into the team is 100% bang on the money. I think replacing an average senior with an undeveloped rookie achieves absolutely nothing. Armo did nothing last game he played in the seniors, and 59% game time is enough for the coach to recognise he's being beaten. Give him time...I'm sure he'll be fine and will get a lot more time in '09.

God forbid a voice of reason. BE GONE DEMON!

Cheers...and I just realise I wrong a funky poem too:
Give him time.
I'm sure he'll be fine.
He'll get plenty more time.
In 2009.

A'thankyou.

[rodgerfox]

I'm sure that Lyon, as head of the Coaching/Selection Panel has a valid reason for why Armo is being played the way he is being played.

Why are you sure of that?

Because unlike you appear to, I know that there are people who know more about coaching an AFL team than I.

Just because you are a 'Master Debater' doesn't make you an expert at
running an AFL Football Club or coaching an AFL team.

Much as you'ld like to think you are, I don't believe you have more knowledge in these areas than our Board or the people they have hired for the jobs.

Ok, so as per the post above yours - it's blind faith.

Fair enough.

[degruch]

I'm sure that Lyon, as head of the Coaching/Selection Panel has a valid reason for why Armo is being played the way he is being played.

Why are you sure of that?

Because unlike you appear to, I know that there are people who know more about coaching an AFL team than I.

Just because you are a 'Master Debater' doesn't make you an expert at
running an AFL Football Club or coaching an AFL team.

Much as you'ld like to think you are, I don't believe you have more knowledge in these areas than our Board or the people they have hired for the jobs.

Ok, so as per the post above yours - it's blind faith.

Fair enough.

Common sense, I think that's the term you're after.

[Mr Magic]

I'm sure that Lyon, as head of the Coaching/Selection Panel has a valid reason for why Armo is being played the way he is being played.

Why are you sure of that?

Because unlike you appear to, I know that there are people who know more about coaching an AFL team than I.

Just because you are a 'Master Debater' doesn't make you an expert at
running an AFL Football Club or coaching an AFL team.

Much as you'ld like to think you are, I don't believe you have more knowledge in these areas than our Board or the people they have hired for the jobs.

Ok, so as per the post above yours - it's blind faith.

Fair enough.

Not blind faith. That's reserved for zealots like you appear to be, slavishly following their own agenda and twisting anything and everything to suit it.

Just a healthy respect for people who obviously know more than me on certain subjects. Certainly more than 100% of posters on this Forum when it comes to running an AFL Football Club.

Maybe if you could/would bring yourself to admit that there are people out there who might know more about something than you then you wouldn't feel the need to 'lecture' everybody on the intricacies of running a football club?
I'm not suggesting you stop posting your opinions on things StKilda but sometimes a little fact in your fantasies might prove both educational and entertaining.

[Saints43]

Because unlike you appear to, I know that there are people who know more about coaching an AFL team than I.

So you don't comment on the economy because you've never been the treasurer?
Don't make judgements on religion because you've never been ordained?
Wouldn't think an AFL player is not up to it because you haven't had your name read out on draft day?

[Mr Magic]

Because unlike you appear to, I know that there are people who know more about coaching an AFL team than I.

So you don't comment on the economy because you've never been the treasurer?
Don't make judgements on religion because you've never been ordained?
Wouldn't think an AFL player is not up to it because you haven't had your name read out on draft day?

No I post an opinion about all of them - I don't lecture all and sundry about them.
I also don't denigrate other people who certainly would have more knowledge than me on that subject about that subject.

Yo use your analogy, I may 'bag' Costello and Swan about their 'look', 'dress sense', 'car driving ability' or a myriad of other subjects but I would never presume to 'lecture' them on Economics. I leave that to other people much more qualified to do that - other economists.

So far I haven't seen any AFL Club, Presidents, Board Members, Coaches or administrators posting on here. What I have found is people posting opinions and some others who think they know it all lecturing everybody else on matters they clearly don't know more than the rest of us on.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself clearly enough?

I accept that RL and his Coaching/Selection/Match Committee know more about why Armo was dropped and why he is getting played in the postitions he is being played, than I or any other person on this Forum.

For posters to state that they know better is clearly nonsense.

[supersaints]

Is Armo out of contract at the end of the year.

I have heard a few rumours and it is fair to say him and a lot of other players are very unhappy down at moorabbin at the moment.

Wouldn't be surprised if there is a few boys asking for trades at the end of the year.

Also Armo was most likely dropped because he didn't hand in a form with what he had eaten before last weeks game.

Punishment was a 5am swim in the Brighton baths and 100 push ups on there knuckles on the rough pool deck in the speedo's. Everyones knuickles were bleeding. There were 8 players punished

Fill out a form?? Good job Plugger has retired he would have to fill out a book every week with what he ate ........

[rodgerfox]

Maybe I'm not explaining myself clearly enough?

I accept that RL and his Coaching/Selection/Match Committee know more about why Armo was dropped and why he is getting played in the postitions he is being played, than I or any other person on this Forum.

For posters to state that they know better is clearly nonsense.

So because of the positions they hold, you trust them?

I don't.

I'd trust their judgement and ability to make those judgements based on their performances so far.

Based on that, I have no doubt that Lyon has reasons for his use of Armitage, and other players, however I strongly question whether or not they are the right judgements.

What has Lyon done since he's had the job to suggest he has good judgement when it comes to anything?

[Mr Magic]

Maybe I'm not explaining myself clearly enough?

I accept that RL and his Coaching/Selection/Match Committee know more about why Armo was dropped and why he is getting played in the postitions he is being played, than I or any other person on this Forum.

For posters to state that they know better is clearly nonsense.

So because of the positions they hold, you trust them?

I don't.

I'd trust their judgement and ability to make those judgements based on their performances so far.

Based on that, I have no doubt that Lyon has reasons for his use of Armitage, and other players, however I strongly question whether or not they are the right judgements.

What has Lyon done since he's had the job to suggest he has good judgement when it comes to anything?

Fine, don't trust them - that is your perogative.

Just as it is mine to choose to trust those empowered by the members to run the Club (the Board) and their employees (the Coach and his sub-committees in this case).

Just because you have a differing opionion to others doesn't necessarily make your opinion correct. It may or may not be, yet you seem to refuse to accecpt any other opinion than your own and go even further - you dismiss out of hand any possibility that your opinion could be wrong, because afterall you are Rodgerfox, The Great Debater' of Saintsational.

Even your reason for not trusting them 'smacks' of your smug overinflated opinion of your knowledge on the subject.

You presume to judge their decisions on Armo because of your perception of their 'performance so far'?
Do you actually know what their decisions are and what they are based on?
Do you know what instructions they have given Armo pre-game and whether he has carried them out or not?
Do you know what discussions they have had with Armo during the week and what his response/performance has been re those instructions?

Can you truthfully answer yes to any of those questions?
I'd bet you cannot and yet you presume to tell us all that you know better.

Rodger, this time why don't you do something different than your normal pattern of behaviour and actually answer the questions I've just posed to you, instead of either 'deflecting' them or disappearing to another thread.

[rodgerfox]

Maybe I'm not explaining myself clearly enough?

I accept that RL and his Coaching/Selection/Match Committee know more about why Armo was dropped and why he is getting played in the postitions he is being played, than I or any other person on this Forum.

For posters to state that they know better is clearly nonsense.

So because of the positions they hold, you trust them?

I don't.

I'd trust their judgement and ability to make those judgements based on their performances so far.

Based on that, I have no doubt that Lyon has reasons for his use of Armitage, and other players, however I strongly question whether or not they are the right judgements.

What has Lyon done since he's had the job to suggest he has good judgement when it comes to anything?

Fine, don't trust them - that is your perogative.

Just as it is mine to choose to trust those empowered by the members to run the Club (the Board) and their employees (the Coach and his sub-committees in this case).

Just because you have a differing opionion to others doesn't necessarily make your opinion correct. It may or may not be, yet you seem to refuse to accecpt any other opinion than your own and go even further - you dismiss out of hand any possibility that your opinion could be wrong, because afterall you are Rodgerfox, The Great Debater' of Saintsational.

Even your reason for not trusting them 'smacks' of your smug overinflated opinion of your knowledge on the subject.

You presume to judge their decisions on Armo because of your perception of their 'performance so far'?
Do you actually know what their decisions are and what they are based on?
Do you know what instructions they have given Armo pre-game and whether he has carried them out or not?
Do you know what discussions they have had with Armo during the week and what his response/performance has been re those instructions?

Can you truthfully answer yes to any of those questions?
I'd bet you cannot and yet you presume to tell us all that you know better.

Rodger, this time why don't you do something different than your normal pattern of behaviour and actually answer the questions I've just posed to you, instead of either 'deflecting' them or disappearing to another thread.

Discussion over.

[Mr Magic]

........
Rodger, this time why don't you do something different than your normal pattern of behaviour and actually answer the questions I've just posed to you, instead of either 'deflecting' them or disappearing to another thread.

Discussion over.

Did I or anybody else really expect a different response?
There was never really much chance that you might actually answer direct questions of yourself and/or your opinions was there?

[rodgerfox]

........
Rodger, this time why don't you do something different than your normal pattern of behaviour and actually answer the questions I've just posed to you, instead of either 'deflecting' them or disappearing to another thread.

Discussion over.

Did I or anybody else really expect a different response?
There was never really much chance that you might actually answer direct questions of yourself and/or your opinions was there?

If you keep attempting to suck me in to childish, petty slanging matches - you're wasting your time if you think I will bothered responding.

I'd hoped I'd made that clear by now.

Get a room with Teflon if you're into that type of 'discussion'. I'm not.

[Mr Magic]

........
Rodger, this time why don't you do something different than your normal pattern of behaviour and actually answer the questions I've just posed to you, instead of either 'deflecting' them or disappearing to another thread.

Discussion over.

Did I or anybody else really expect a different response?
There was never really much chance that you might actually answer direct questions of yourself and/or your opinions was there?

If you keep attempting to suck me in to childish, petty slanging matches - you're wasting your time if you think I will bothered responding.

I'd hoped I'd made that clear by now.

Get a room with Teflon if you're into that type of 'discussion'. I'm not.

Predictable response from the 'Master Debater'.

Always willing to disparage but never willing to answer direct questions for fear it will betray his true shallowness and lack of credible argument.

Gi on Rodger, scurry off again with your ususal 'deflections'.
I'm sure you'll reappear sooner or later in another thread with more BS you are trying to pass on as fact!

[saint66au]

Mr Magic has a point

Yes, have an opinion, but put it context to your own abilities. People comment and have opinions on the Budget, but are quite happy to admit that given they job of Federal Treasurer, they'd make a complete hack of it

A few people on here (no names) I think genuinely believe that they could step into RL's or Westaways shoes and do a better job. Unfotunately being on your kids kindergarten commitee or coaching an U/10's side does not make you an AFL Club coach or President..

[ThomasR]

I accidentally walked in on Brian Goorjian coaching a basketball team at Melb Uni once. I don't really know much about basketball but the level of detail which he was going into was amazing. I only saw a couple of plays but everything from feet and arm positioning to players moving to assist etc - the tactical depth of it all was really quite a shock.

Obviously footy is a different sport but in my junior years I played against some very handy footballers, a couple who are current AFL players. These blokes were absolute freaks but one of them at Essendon has only started getting a regular game this year and the other at Hawthorn looks the goods but can't crack it at the moment.

I think something we forget often is just how high a standard AFL level is. We berate Blake, Fiora, Raph etc but they drop down to VFL level and they are a cut above. And likewise in schoolboy footy they would have completely dominated.

Ross Lyon is not a muppet. Like GT before him he was good enough to play at this level. We can be upset all we like about Armitage being dropped but unless we're a fly on the wall in the selection meeting, we will never know why. Perhaps his base fitness isn't up to scratch? Disciplinary reasons? Who knows. The coach does and the match committee does. But I doubt anybody on here does. And at the end of the day, they have much better credentials than any of us to make those decisions.

It doesn't exempt them from making the wrong decisions. Armo could've got 30 touches kicked 5 goals and gone on to become the greatest player the game has seen. But it does mean that they are more likely to make the right ones.

I'll usually sit up on level 3 but occasionally fork out the extra dollars for a spot on level 1 - you get a lot more feel for the pace of the game down there and understand just how tough it is. These players are the best going around, believe it or not. And believe it or not, so are the coaches.

Ross Lyon is not an idiot. We all want Armo to play because he's hard at it and looks the goods. If that's the equivalent amount of thought that RL and co put into selecting the side, then I want my money back. There must be some valid reasoning as to why he is not playing.

There was a clip going around last year of the Bulldogs' match committee meeting when they were deciding whether on not to debut Stephen Tiller. Rocket and his crew all put forward pros and cons for his selection and in the end they picked him. Speed on the lead, goalkicking ability etc. Not because 'he's been in the best in the ressies three weeks in a row'.

There is a lot more to playing AFL than meets the eye. Pick the best footballer you ever played against and he would struggle out there. Unless his name is Gary Ablett. Likewise, there is a lot more to coaching. We can all sit here and take pot shots, gripe and moan about the team's direction, but I don't think anyone on this forum could coach the team any better than Ross. Unless Sheeds is reading.

I am sure if any of us had the opportunity, we would axe the 'gameplan' (wtf is the gameplan anyway. Can someone explain it to me or do they just like to use that term to bag Ross?) and start looking to play more attacking footy. If it won't work for Matty Knights, who has a little more experience than all of us, then what chance do we have?

[Teflon]

........
Rodger, this time why don't you do something different than your normal pattern of behaviour and actually answer the questions I've just posed to you, instead of either 'deflecting' them or disappearing to another thread.

Discussion over.

Did I or anybody else really expect a different response?
There was never really much chance that you might actually answer direct questions of yourself and/or your opinions was there?

If you keep attempting to suck me in to childish, petty slanging matches - you're wasting your time if you think I will bothered responding.

I'd hoped I'd made that clear by now.

Get a room with Teflon if you're into that type of 'discussion'. I'm not.

Rooms full.......Jefster apparently waiting for a hard ball gets chat from the Dodg...........

[Teflon]

I accidentally walked in on Brian Goorjian coaching a basketball team at Melb Uni once. I don't really know much about basketball but the level of detail which he was going into was amazing. I only saw a couple of plays but everything from feet and arm positioning to players moving to assist etc - the tactical depth of it all was really quite a shock.

Obviously footy is a different sport but in my junior years I played against some very handy footballers, a couple who are current AFL players. These blokes were absolute freaks but one of them at Essendon has only started getting a regular game this year and the other at Hawthorn looks the goods but can't crack it at the moment.

I think something we forget often is just how high a standard AFL level is. We berate Blake, Fiora, Raph etc but they drop down to VFL level and they are a cut above. And likewise in schoolboy footy they would have completely dominated.

Ross Lyon is not a muppet. Like GT before him he was good enough to play at this level. We can be upset all we like about Armitage being dropped but unless we're a fly on the wall in the selection meeting, we will never know why. Perhaps his base fitness isn't up to scratch? Disciplinary reasons? Who knows. The coach does and the match committee does. But I doubt anybody on here does. And at the end of the day, they have much better credentials than any of us to make those decisions.

It doesn't exempt them from making the wrong decisions. Armo could've got 30 touches kicked 5 goals and gone on to become the greatest player the game has seen. But it does mean that they are more likely to make the right ones.

I'll usually sit up on level 3 but occasionally fork out the extra dollars for a spot on level 1 - you get a lot more feel for the pace of the game down there and understand just how tough it is. These players are the best going around, believe it or not. And believe it or not, so are the coaches.

Ross Lyon is not an idiot. We all want Armo to play because he's hard at it and looks the goods. If that's the equivalent amount of thought that RL and co put into selecting the side, then I want my money back. There must be some valid reasoning as to why he is not playing.

There was a clip going around last year of the Bulldogs' match committee meeting when they were deciding whether on not to debut Stephen Tiller. Rocket and his crew all put forward pros and cons for his selection and in the end they picked him. Speed on the lead, goalkicking ability etc. Not because 'he's been in the best in the ressies three weeks in a row'.

There is a lot more to playing AFL than meets the eye. Pick the best footballer you ever played against and he would struggle out there. Unless his name is Gary Ablett. Likewise, there is a lot more to coaching. We can all sit here and take pot shots, gripe and moan about the team's direction, but I don't think anyone on this forum could coach the team any better than Ross. Unless Sheeds is reading.

I am sure if any of us had the opportunity, we would axe the 'gameplan' (wtf is the gameplan anyway. Can someone explain it to me or do they just like to use that term to bag Ross?) and start looking to play more attacking footy. If it won't work for Matty Knights, who has a little more experience than all of us, then what chance do we have?

Great post.

The difference on here is most of us know we are armchair experts on Mondays......then theres a couple who ACTUALLY reckon theyve got the goods......theyre the scary ones.....

[groupie1]

Armitage himself only recently suggested fitness was a challenge for him at AFL level, or at least was last year - no 'sources' or 'inside word' here - it's in the media - this may be why he's a/ not getting lots of game time and b/ being dropped

[rodgerfox]

Mr Magic has a point

Yes, have an opinion, but put it context to your own abilities. People comment and have opinions on the Budget, but are quite happy to admit that given they job of Federal Treasurer, they'd make a complete hack of it

A few people on here (no names) I think genuinely believe that they could step into RL's or Westaways shoes and do a better job. Unfotunately being on your kids kindergarten commitee or coaching an U/10's side does not make you an AFL Club coach or President..

You do realise though that many on here have played at a high level and/or coached at a high level?

[bob__71]

You do realise though that many on here have played at a high level and/or coached at a high level?

Not much point saying that unless they are going to put their qualifications out there Rodger

[barks4eva]

A few people on here (no names) I think genuinely believe that they could step into RL's or Westaways shoes and do a better job. Unfotunately being on your kids kindergarten commitee or coaching an U/10's side does not make you an AFL Club coach or President..

Great point, there are many deluded, dumbed down, dingbats, despots and dong bongers, a fair dinkum, flock of flaggetating flogs, fools and fluffers on here with over inflated opinion's of themselves, a veritable throng of know nothing, numbnuts, nongs and nuffies, a gaggle of geeks, gimps, gumps, goofballs and goat riders, who actually think they could be a better AFL coach than Lyon, obviously I am an exception to this rule and the club would be much better served having me as coach or at the very least Lyon having a direct advice line where he could ask me for help and suggestions, or rather be implored to take direction from, but as for the bumbling, buffoons, bong bandits and bone monkeys from the babble rabble, I mean seriously, fair dinkum..........perleeeeeeeeeeze!

[barks4eva]

Mr Magic has a point

Yes, have an opinion, but put it context to your own abilities. People comment and have opinions on the Budget, but are quite happy to admit that given they job of Federal Treasurer, they'd make a complete hack of it

A few people on here (no names) I think genuinely believe that they could step into RL's or Westaways shoes and do a better job. Unfotunately being on your kids kindergarten commitee or coaching an U/10's side does not make you an AFL Club coach or President..

You do realise though that many on here have played at a high level and/or coached at a high level?

Your bong doesn't count, dodgy!

and besides, what does an ant farm and a room full of inflatables, have to do with AFL football?

[Spinner]

If Armitage hadn't been dropped, nobody would be talking about his 27 possession 2 goal game.

...Only his limited game time and minimal effect in the seniors game against Sydney.

His drop was well warranted. As will be his elevation to the seniors this week.

Armitage had contributed a hell of a lot of nothing for the last few senior appearances. He gets a good ride on here because he 'looks like a good footballer' to the number of idiots on this forum. Get real. Wake up. And start giving ALL players a fair evaluation, instead of the biased one based on looks, feel and emotion that is all too common around this place.

The drop was exactly the right choice at the time. Automatic selection. What a stupid idea.

[gosaints]

I accidentally walked in on Brian Goorjian coaching a basketball team at Melb Uni once. I don't really know much about basketball but the level of detail which he was going into was amazing. I only saw a couple of plays but everything from feet and arm positioning to players moving to assist etc - the tactical depth of it all was really quite a shock.

Obviously footy is a different sport but in my junior years I played against some very handy footballers, a couple who are current AFL players. These blokes were absolute freaks but one of them at Essendon has only started getting a regular game this year and the other at Hawthorn looks the goods but can't crack it at the moment.

I think something we forget often is just how high a standard AFL level is. We berate Blake, Fiora, Raph etc but they drop down to VFL level and they are a cut above. And likewise in schoolboy footy they would have completely dominated.

Ross Lyon is not a muppet. Like GT before him he was good enough to play at this level. We can be upset all we like about Armitage being dropped but unless we're a fly on the wall in the selection meeting, we will never know why. Perhaps his base fitness isn't up to scratch? Disciplinary reasons? Who knows. The coach does and the match committee does. But I doubt anybody on here does. And at the end of the day, they have much better credentials than any of us to make those decisions.

It doesn't exempt them from making the wrong decisions. Armo could've got 30 touches kicked 5 goals and gone on to become the greatest player the game has seen. But it does mean that they are more likely to make the right ones.

I'll usually sit up on level 3 but occasionally fork out the extra dollars for a spot on level 1 - you get a lot more feel for the pace of the game down there and understand just how tough it is. These players are the best going around, believe it or not. And believe it or not, so are the coaches.

Ross Lyon is not an idiot. We all want Armo to play because he's hard at it and looks the goods. If that's the equivalent amount of thought that RL and co put into selecting the side, then I want my money back. There must be some valid reasoning as to why he is not playing.

There was a clip going around last year of the Bulldogs' match committee meeting when they were deciding whether on not to debut Stephen Tiller. Rocket and his crew all put forward pros and cons for his selection and in the end they picked him. Speed on the lead, goalkicking ability etc. Not because 'he's been in the best in the ressies three weeks in a row'.

There is a lot more to playing AFL than meets the eye. Pick the best footballer you ever played against and he would struggle out there. Unless his name is Gary Ablett. Likewise, there is a lot more to coaching. We can all sit here and take pot shots, gripe and moan about the team's direction, but I don't think anyone on this forum could coach the team any better than Ross. Unless Sheeds is reading.

I am sure if any of us had the opportunity, we would axe the 'gameplan' (wtf is the gameplan anyway. Can someone explain it to me or do they just like to use that term to bag Ross?) and start looking to play more attacking footy. If it won't work for Matty Knights, who has a little more experience than all of us, then what chance do we have?

Good on you mate, that is a great post.

I actually couldn't believe the sh*t that was going on here after Armo had been dropped. He had been 1 of the worst performed players over the last few weeks and deserved the chop. I also think he will become a very good player for us in the future but right now he isn't consistent enough to warrant selection every week.
Personally, I think the coaching staff are managing Armo very well.

[barks4eva]

Predictable response from the 'Master Debater'.

Always willing to disparage but never willing to answer direct questions for fear it will betray his true shallowness and lack of credible argument.

Gi on Rodger, scurry off again with your ususal 'deflections'.
I'm sure you'll reappear sooner or later in another thread with more BS you are trying to pass on as fact!

good ol dodger fox, scuttlebut, rumour and innendo, the man with all the inside info taken to task and coming up empty, hardly surprising