Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
I am not a fan. This is more of a concern than Lyon is.
How do you work that out. RL is the coach and will always have the final say. If Plugger and Ablett played in the forward line at the moment they wouldnt get a kick because of the slow movement of the ball from down back. Not sure that is the forward line coaches problem.
the amount of times in the past month our players lift their heads running off half back and have NO forwards leading to them. The forwards not only don't work hard enough but they are not helping each other out to create space. The lack of movement, blocking and knowledge of when, where and who is leading is a real worry. This comes back to our forward line coach. I do think that the best our forwards have played as a group was in 2005 when terry daniher was forward coach.
but yes, the buck stops at Lyon. I'm just not sure what barker is doing with the forward line/
FQF
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
I am not a fan. This is more of a concern than Lyon is.
How do you work that out. RL is the coach and will always have the final say. If Plugger and Ablett played in the forward line at the moment they wouldnt get a kick because of the slow movement of the ball from down back. Not sure that is the forward line coaches problem.
the amount of times in the past month our players lift their heads running off half back and have NO forwards leading to them. The forwards not only don't work hard enough but they are not helping each other out to create space. The lack of movement, blocking and knowledge of when, where and who is leading is a real worry. This comes back to our forward line coach. I do think that the best our forwards have played as a group was in 2005 when terry daniher was forward coach.
but yes, the buck stops at Lyon. I'm just not sure what barker is doing with the forward line/
There not leading because they are to tired after running all the way back into the oppositions backline.
plugger66 wrote:There not leading because they are to tired after running all the way back into the oppositions backline.
it's costing us games. is RL a chance to change this strategy at any stage do you think and let his forwards play in the forward line where their role is to get the ball and kick a goal?
Last edited by bigcarl on Thu 01 May 2008 5:23pm, edited 1 time in total.
rodgerfox wrote:
The infamous "I was out-coached" line used by GT at press conferences was condemned by most, however I think the playing group would probably gain respect for you when you say it like that - it's the coaches job to ensure players do what he asks, if they don't then it is he who is at fault. Therefore, the line "I was out-coached".
.
Of course no other coach has ever chastised his players in a public way...????
I just thought I would have a look after a few losses in 2006....
We failed miserably as a club tonight," Grant Thomas said. "We didn't have any real team ethic and we didn't work for one another. We were very undisciplined. We just had too many passengers and too many guys who just put their hand up too early, which is just disappointing at this stage of the year in such an important game. If we're going to accept the credits for our good performances, we've got to accept the criticism for when we don't perform well, and that includes me and the coaching staff and everyone."
Thomas described the effort as "reasonably inept" and was disappointed the team's second-tier players did not step up once Nick Dal Santo, Nick Riewoldt and Fraser Gehrig were shut out of the game. "I can't remember the last 10-goal defeat we've had ... we were very, very poor," Thomas said.
I just told him I was disappointed for him. I just said he was better than that and we as a team expect more than that. He knew that, there's no real need to go on with it. You're not going to win games of football with players who aren't giving their all. It has a flow-on effect for the rest of the team and it has an uplifting effect for the opposition." Thomas on Aaron Fiora
mmm that did not read too much like "I was out-coached"...it read more like the players (or player) were at fault......
ALL coaches have done it...and will continue to do it. Sometimes coaches will kick butt.
Trying to hold the previous Coach up as model as someone that only blamed himself in public..rather than the team...or individual players is just not the actuallity.
Last edited by saintsRrising on Thu 01 May 2008 5:32pm, edited 2 times in total.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
I am not a fan. This is more of a concern than Lyon is.
How do you work that out. RL is the coach and will always have the final say. If Plugger and Ablett played in the forward line at the moment they wouldnt get a kick because of the slow movement of the ball from down back. Not sure that is the forward line coaches problem.
the amount of times in the past month our players lift their heads running off half back and have NO forwards leading to them. The forwards not only don't work hard enough but they are not helping each other out to create space. The lack of movement, blocking and knowledge of when, where and who is leading is a real worry. This comes back to our forward line coach. I do think that the best our forwards have played as a group was in 2005 when terry daniher was forward coach.
but yes, the buck stops at Lyon. I'm just not sure what barker is doing with the forward line/
There not leading because they are to tired after running all the way back into the oppositions backline.
Thats assuming there is a full flood, which we don't tend to do unless we are getting pumped. The amount of times I have seen a bunch players mill around the HFF near the 50 looking like they have no idea what they are doing.
This is usually about the time where they start chipping it around. It's hard to kick it down the line to the advantage of a forward when they are just walking. Then when we turn it over everyone is jumping up and down about the backline player. Nothing is ever said about the lack of leading forward options or hard running players working past the ball carrier.
FQF
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
I am not a fan. This is more of a concern than Lyon is.
How do you work that out. RL is the coach and will always have the final say. If Plugger and Ablett played in the forward line at the moment they wouldnt get a kick because of the slow movement of the ball from down back. Not sure that is the forward line coaches problem.
the amount of times in the past month our players lift their heads running off half back and have NO forwards leading to them. The forwards not only don't work hard enough but they are not helping each other out to create space. The lack of movement, blocking and knowledge of when, where and who is leading is a real worry. This comes back to our forward line coach. I do think that the best our forwards have played as a group was in 2005 when terry daniher was forward coach.
but yes, the buck stops at Lyon. I'm just not sure what barker is doing with the forward line/
There not leading because they are to tired after running all the way back into the oppositions backline.
Thats assuming there is a full flood, which we don't tend to do unless we are getting pumped. The amount of times I have seen a bunch players mill around the HFF near the 50 looking like they have no idea what they are doing.
This is usually about the time where they start chipping it around. It's hard to kick it down the line to the advantage of a forward when they are just walking. Then when we turn it over everyone is jumping up and down about the backline player. Nothing is ever said about the lack of leading forward options or hard running players working past the ball carrier.
We do a full flood in the first minute of a game. The only time we dont flood is when we get it quickly out of the centre as what happened against Footscray and geelong early and the forwrd structure looked alright then.
rodgerfox wrote:
The infamous "I was out-coached" line used by GT at press conferences was condemned by most, however I think the playing group would probably gain respect for you when you say it like that - it's the coaches job to ensure players do what he asks, if they don't then it is he who is at fault. Therefore, the line "I was out-coached".
.
Of course no other coach has ever chastised his players in a public way...????
I just thought I would have a look after a few losses in 2006....
We failed miserably as a club tonight," Grant Thomas said. "We didn't have any real team ethic and we didn't work for one another. We were very undisciplined. We just had too many passengers and too many guys who just put their hand up too early, which is just disappointing at this stage of the year in such an important game. If we're going to accept the credits for our good performances, we've got to accept the criticism for when we don't perform well, and that includes me and the coaching staff and everyone."
Thomas described the effort as "reasonably inept" and was disappointed the team's second-tier players did not step up once Nick Dal Santo, Nick Riewoldt and Fraser Gehrig were shut out of the game. "I can't remember the last 10-goal defeat we've had ... we were very, very poor," Thomas said.
I just told him I was disappointed for him. I just said he was better than that and we as a team expect more than that. He knew that, there's no real need to go on with it. You're not going to win games of football with players who aren't giving their all. It has a flow-on effect for the rest of the team and it has an uplifting effect for the opposition." Thomas on Aaron Fiora
mmm that did not read too much like "I was out-coached"...it read more like the players (or player) were at fault......
ALL coaches have done it...and will continue to do it. Sometimes coaches will kick butt.
Trying to hold the previous Coach up as model as someone that only blamed himself in public..rather than the team...or individual players is just not the actuallity.
TBH, they are the sort of comments I'd like to hear from Lyon.
The difference with Lyon's comments this week is that he's the one being criticised for the style of game we are playing not simply the results. Our style is ugly even when we win.
We can debate until we are blue in the face who to blame for our mediocre results and the strength of the list, but you cannot deny we now play an ugly, negative brand of football. Coincidently we started playing this style when Lyon became coach.
Lyon was coming under attack and he blamed the players.
rodgerfox wrote:
The infamous "I was out-coached" line used by GT at press conferences was condemned by most, however I think the playing group would probably gain respect for you when you say it like that - it's the coaches job to ensure players do what he asks, if they don't then it is he who is at fault. Therefore, the line "I was out-coached".
.
Of course no other coach has ever chastised his players in a public way...????
I just thought I would have a look after a few losses in 2006....
We failed miserably as a club tonight," Grant Thomas said. "We didn't have any real team ethic and we didn't work for one another. We were very undisciplined. We just had too many passengers and too many guys who just put their hand up too early, which is just disappointing at this stage of the year in such an important game. If we're going to accept the credits for our good performances, we've got to accept the criticism for when we don't perform well, and that includes me and the coaching staff and everyone."
Thomas described the effort as "reasonably inept" and was disappointed the team's second-tier players did not step up once Nick Dal Santo, Nick Riewoldt and Fraser Gehrig were shut out of the game. "I can't remember the last 10-goal defeat we've had ... we were very, very poor," Thomas said.
I just told him I was disappointed for him. I just said he was better than that and we as a team expect more than that. He knew that, there's no real need to go on with it. You're not going to win games of football with players who aren't giving their all. It has a flow-on effect for the rest of the team and it has an uplifting effect for the opposition." Thomas on Aaron Fiora
mmm that did not read too much like "I was out-coached"...it read more like the players (or player) were at fault......
ALL coaches have done it...and will continue to do it. Sometimes coaches will kick butt.
Trying to hold the previous Coach up as model as someone that only blamed himself in public..rather than the team...or individual players is just not the actuallity.
As I said already, there is nothing wrong with having a crack at players publicly neccessarily. It's when you use them as scapegoats to defend yourself.
Sarcastically and arrogantly suggesting that the players are stupid and unable to carry out your brilliant plan, is not the way to put some spark into a group.
I'd be happy for Lyon to come out and give them a 'Max Hudghton-esque' spray, or state cold hard facts as you quoted above, if it was aimed at improving the group - not belittling them to defend himself.
We do a full flood in the first minute of a game. The only time we dont flood is when we get it quickly out of the centre as what happened against Footscray and geelong early and the forwrd structure looked alright then.
Looks great when we are winning eh...
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
Sobraz wrote:My only issue with Lyon from this weeks press is how he has constantly used 10 and 12 goals as evidence of us not being a defensive team..
This for mine, is a joke.. 12 goals a game ave. is pathetic, and if Lyon thinks otherwise, then he doesnt even know he is a defensive coach himself..
This sat night may prove alot about where we're going, and Lyon as coach..
My jaw hit the turf when I heard this as well. WTF is he on about? It is extremely concerning. 10 or 12 goals ???
Therein lies the problem. When will our players start taking the blame for being professional footy players, and not being able to execute a simple under 10 handball through the guts, or a simple drop punt to a leading forward.
Our skills ATM are absolutely pathetic, and this lies in the hands of the players themselves, not the gameplan. Turnovers create opportunity, unfortunately we are creating WAY too many opportunities ATM. Ross ain't to blame, the 22 who take the field are. Until they realise this, all our so-called "stars" (of whom I believe we only really have 2, H + R) will revell in their coach-killer status.
If it is the case that RL sends them out with an attacking game plan and the players don't play to it then fair enough to say so. However......
He needs to take responsibility for the possible reasons for the lack of transforming what they practise on the training park onto the pitch. Presumably could be for the following reasons...
1/ Poor communication from the coaches to the players. Hopefully either the coaches can learn to talk better or the players listen better - more likely a bit of both.
2/ Not picking the correct players to carry out the preferred game plan. Like picking all of Dempster, Baker, Blake, Fisher, Rix in the team..... to play an attacking style. Hmmmm, that's 3 players too many in the midfield who don't contribute much, if anything in an attacking sense.... glad to see that he's rectified things somewhat this week.....
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
We do a full flood in the first minute of a game. The only time we dont flood is when we get it quickly out of the centre as what happened against Footscray and geelong early and the forwrd structure looked alright then.
Looks great when we are winning eh...
Yep.
But it doesn't result in us winning often enough, does it?
If we had lost all six games there would still be someone writing "It worked when we kicked that goal in the second quarter of round two."
If Plugger or Ablett were in our forward line, they would kick heaps of goals simply because they always lead strongly and used to win one-on-one contests regularly. If I was playing in the backline or midfield and coming into the forward line, I wouldn't know who to kick it to as the forwards have no consistancy in leading or providing options.
