St Kilda Vs Western Bulldogs - Pre-Match Discussion

[The_Dud]

in Goddrad
out Raph

i'd keep Gilbeet ahead of Raph because he does about the same quality defensive job, but when he gets the ball he is much more creative and dangerous, plus his skills are better

[bogan4life]

minson wont get droped, grif is a startin mid now

[devil saint]

The change that should occur this week is a no brainer...

In: BJ Out: R Clarke

R Clarke has been horrible the last 2 weeks and to be honest, it has been a lot longer than the last 2 weeks. He is way out of his depth atm & i struggle to believe all the praise ppl in other threads have been heaping on Raph. His decision making is woeful along with his 'double fisting tactic' which was on fine display on sat night.
Injuries, i concede have been an issue but why play a bloke who is obviously unable to handle the heat of the main game. Playing him in the 1s for confidence is one of the more humorous and idiotic things i have read recently. Some ppl on here need to take a more objective look at our players and say what needs to be said, rather than thinking everytime somebody makes an obvious statement about a player that they are bashing them.

Simply Raph must be dropped. Dropping geary or gilbert would be stupid as geary is showing great qualities, while gilbert has shown he has what it takes at this level, unlike RC. Gilbert's start to the year has been average but taking on a slightly new role can be attributed for this.

As for saying king is in the mix to be left out, or indeed a fringe player, well have these ppl been at the last 2 games? These are moronic ideas clearly coming from inept brains

[Boppa]

Posted: Mon 31 Mar 2008 3:02pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The change that should occur this week is a no brainer...

In: BJ Out: R Clarke

R Clarke has been horrible the last 2 weeks and to be honest, it has been a lot longer than the last 2 weeks. He is way out of his depth atm & i struggle to believe all the praise ppl in other threads have been heaping on Raph. His decision making is woeful along with his 'double fisting tactic' which was on fine display on sat night.
Injuries, i concede have been an issue but why play a bloke who is obviously unable to handle the heat of the main game. Playing him in the 1s for confidence is one of the more humorous and idiotic things i have read recently. Some ppl on here need to take a more objective look at our players and say what needs to be said, rather than thinking everytime somebody makes an obvious statement about a player that they are bashing them.

Simply Raph must be dropped. Dropping geary or gilbert would be stupid as geary is showing great qualities, while gilbert has shown he has what it takes at this level, unlike RC. Gilbert's start to the year has been average but taking on a slightly new role can be attributed for this.

As for saying king is in the mix to be left out, or indeed a fringe player, well have these ppl been at the last 2 games? These are moronic ideas clearly coming from inept brains

[Oh When the Saints]

Out: Gilbert
In: Goddard


Fiora was one of our better players and did exactly what RL would have wanted of him, which was to link in space and use his running and foot skills. Won't be dropped - he played EVERY game last year remember ...

Ditto Blake. Picked every week and performed well on Saturday.

Gilbert struggled to be honest - he was played as a medium/tall defender but didn't find much of the ball himself and failed to provide any run or rebound .... basically didn't do his job that well IMO.


If there was going to be one other change, it might be Raph out for Clint Jones ...

CJ is on the cards to get a game IMO.

Ergo, Gilbo is the logical one to drop.

IMO Gilbo is a better footballer than Raph, but Raph needs to be given an extended run to find out whether's he is any good ... and he was passable on Saturday.

[Boppa]

IMO Gilbo is a better footballer than Raph, but Raph needs to be given an extended run to find out whether's he is any good ... and he was passable on Saturday.

Why does he need to be given an extended run? He is not performing, and as pointed out already his decision making is atrocious. You have pointed out Gilbert is a better footballer, so why should we drop him and persist with someone whose constant mistakes will eventually cost us games. Lets send R.Clarke back to Casey and give him another game when he deserves one. Raph Clarke gets games because he was a high draft pick, and has always had the word potential next to his name. I'm all for giving guys games in the 1s when they are deserved, but to suggest we just continue to play him just to see if he will be any good is ridiculous.

[Washedup]

R.Clarke out for BJ is straight forward IMO. I too disagree with Raph Clarke getting games, or an extended run in the seniors just to find out whether he is any good. What kind of a msg does that send to guys on the fringe playing at Casey, if we continue to give token games to someone not performing. Having pressure for positions in our 22 is healthy and whether you are Jarryn Geary, Raph Clarke, Nick Da lSanto, or Lenny Hayes you should only be guaranteed to keep your spot if
a) You are performing or
b) We dont have any better options
Unfortunately for Raph Clarke he isn't performing, and BJ is by far a better option.

[True Blue Sainter]

R.Clarke out for BJ is straight forward IMO. I too disagree with Raph Clarke getting games, or an extended run in the seniors just to find out whether he is any good. What kind of a msg does that send to guys on the fringe playing at Casey, if we continue to give token games to someone not performing. Having pressure for positions in our 22 is healthy and whether you are Jarryn Geary, Raph Clarke, Nick Da lSanto, or Lenny Hayes you should only be guaranteed to keep your spot if
a) You are performing or
b) We dont have any better options
Unfortunately for Raph Clarke he isn't performing, and BJ is by far a better option.

My sentiments exactly. A team at 2-0 and hoping for top 4, should not be giving players games just to merely see "if they are any good". Form should be rewarded, and lack of form should be punished.

[bigred]

I just dont think that Raph WANTS the footy!

If BJ is ready, we need to make a change...He is most deffinately best 22...

For mine, I honestly think Raph needs another fortnight in the magoos....

How long can we persevere? His confidence is rock bottom in my eyes...

I dont think gilbo has been terrible, better than Raph anyhoo...

just an opinion

[Mr Magic]

Are you expecting BJ to take a key defensive role? If not then why would you expect Raph to make way for him? If Raph goes who is going to play his (Raph's) role?

BJ is more likely to play a similar role to Gram (a link man of halfback), albeit for shorter game time.

Maybe there is no defensive role against the WB for both Raph and Gilbert which would allow the selectors to leave one out for BJ?

[True Blue Sainter]

Are you expecting BJ to take a key defensive role? If not then why would you expect Raph to make way for him? If Raph goes who is going to play his (Raph's) role?

BJ is more likely to play a similar role to Gram (a link man of halfback), albeit for shorter game time.

Maybe there is no defensive role against the WB for both Raph and Gilbert which would allow the selectors to leave one out for BJ?

No, as I don't believe that is Raph's role in the side either. Chips and Max should be enough to cover the Bulldog's "talls" up forward (Welsh & Johnno), releasing Gilbo into a more attacking-minded role. BJ to play on one of the Bulldog's flankers that push up into the midield (Cooney, Eagleton, Giansiracusa etc), and be our go-to man when getting the ball out of defence.

Another important aspect to BJ's game that nobody has commented on (that I can remember) is that he is our designated taker of kick-ins. They have been a bit of a shamble recently, with Dal, Chips, Grammy all taking their turns.

[Ghost Like]

I think Gilbo and Raph can both play...we'll need them both by my reckoning. Surely Fiora is not that much quicker than Gilbo if at all. What we lose in Fioras kicks, BJ makes up for. I cannot see BJ being given a permanent spot in defence this week as Welsh, Murphy or Johnno would light him up, so they need to be divided btw Max, Sam and Raph.

I think Gilbo needs to be given the job on Cooney, his pace and takling should be enough pressure to put him off his game, he's a huge barometer for the Doggies.

I do believe Gilbee needs to be manned up on and I would give this role to Blake...with two instructions, do not let Gilbee get within 60 metres of their goal and make yourself an option in our forward line to keep Gilbee out of the spaces for the Holy Trinity.

The other bloke we must blanket is Cross, he's 4 times more dangerous than West as his disposals hurt...he's all yours Leigh Fisher.

[bigcarl]

In: BJ
Out: Fiora

BJ and Gram to opposing wings where their long kicking can be best employed. Gilbert and Raph on the hbf

[iwantmeseats]

I think Gilbo and Raph can both play...we'll need them both by my reckoning. Surely Fiora is not that much quicker than Gilbo if at all. What we lose in Fioras kicks, BJ makes up for. I cannot see BJ being given a permanent spot in defence this week as Welsh, Murphy or Johnno would light him up, so they need to be divided btw Max, Sam and Raph.

I think Gilbo needs to be given the job on Cooney, his pace and takling should be enough pressure to put him off his game, he's a huge barometer for the Doggies.

I do believe Gilbee needs to be manned up on and I would give this role to Blake...with two instructions, do not let Gilbee get within 60 metres of their goal and make yourself an option in our forward line to keep Gilbee out of the spaces for the Holy Trinity.

The other bloke we must blanket is Cross, he's 4 times more dangerous than West as his disposals hurt...he's all yours Leigh Fisher.

Yeah but BJ is vital for run off half back, more so than a strict checking role. Working in tadem with gram as his delivery is a bit off at the moment.

[maverick]

B: Geary (183)/Akermanis (177) - Hudghton (191)/Johnson (182) - S.Fisher (192)/Welsh (188)
HB: Gram (186)/Hill (186) - Blake (191)/Hahn (188) - R.Clarke (188)/Murphy (186)
C: Dal Santo (186)/Boyd (184) - Hayes (186)/Cross (187) - X.Clarke (182)/Eagleton (180)
HF: Harvey (181)/Griffen (188) - Riewoldt (193)/Hargrave (190) - Schneider (179)/Gilbee (180)
F: Milne (178)/Morris (190) - Koschitzke (197)/Wight (200) - Gehrig (195)/Lake (195)
FOLL: King (201)/Hudson (199) - L.Fisher (188)/Cooney (186) - Montagna (178)/West (178)

I/C: M.Gardiner (199), Fiora (186), Goddard (191), Ball (184)
I/C: Callan (181), Giansiracusa (182), Addison (186), Street (211)

EMG: C.Gardiner (190), Jones (183), S.Gilbert (194)

IN: Goddard
OUT: Gilbert (194)

IN: Street, Eagleton
OUT: Minson, Higgins

That's the team and matchups for mine.
Gilbert is the one that needs a run in the ressies, his defending one on one is very ordinary, needs some work.
Raph keeps his spot for mine, Blake to play back in Gilbert's spot.

[The Jeff]

B: Geary (183)/Akermanis (177) - Hudghton (191)/Johnson (182) - S.Fisher (192)/Welsh (188)
HB: Gram (186)/Hill (186) - Blake (191)/Hahn (188) - R.Clarke (188)/Murphy (186)
C: Dal Santo (186)/Boyd (184) - Hayes (186)/Cross (187) - X.Clarke (182)/Eagleton (180)
HF: Harvey (181)/Griffen (188) - Riewoldt (193)/Hargrave (190) - Schneider (179)/Gilbee (180)
F: Milne (178)/Morris (190) - Koschitzke (197)/Wight (200) - Gehrig (195)/Lake (195)
FOLL: King (201)/Hudson (199) - L.Fisher (188)/Cooney (186) - Montagna (178)/West (178)

I/C: M.Gardiner (199), Fiora (186), Goddard (191), Ball (184)
I/C: Callan (181), Giansiracusa (182), Addison (186), Street (211)

EMG: C.Gardiner (190), Jones (183), S.Gilbert (194)

IN: Goddard
OUT: Gilbert (194)

IN: Street, Eagleton
OUT: Minson, Higgins

That's the team and matchups for mine.
Gilbert is the one that needs a run in the ressies, his defending one on one is very ordinary, needs some work.
Raph keeps his spot for mine, Blake to play back in Gilbert's spot.

Agreed re: Gilbert. Sure Raph has turned the ball over a couple of times but at least he is playing a role for the team at the moment. Right now, Gilbert isn't. He will benefit from finding some touch and form with Casey.

[maverick]

B: Geary (183)/Akermanis (177) - Hudghton (191)/Johnson (182) - S.Fisher (192)/Welsh (188)
HB: Gram (186)/Hill (186) - Blake (191)/Hahn (188) - R.Clarke (188)/Murphy (186)
C: Dal Santo (186)/Boyd (184) - Hayes (186)/Cross (187) - X.Clarke (182)/Eagleton (180)
HF: Harvey (181)/Griffen (188) - Riewoldt (193)/Hargrave (190) - Schneider (179)/Gilbee (180)
F: Milne (178)/Morris (190) - Koschitzke (197)/Wight (200) - Gehrig (195)/Lake (195)
FOLL: King (201)/Hudson (199) - L.Fisher (188)/Cooney (186) - Montagna (178)/West (178)

I/C: M.Gardiner (199), Fiora (186), Goddard (191), Ball (184)
I/C: Callan (181), Giansiracusa (182), Addison (186), Street (211)

EMG: C.Gardiner (190), Jones (183), S.Gilbert (194)

IN: Goddard
OUT: Gilbert (194)

IN: Street, Eagleton
OUT: Minson, Higgins

That's the team and matchups for mine.
Gilbert is the one that needs a run in the ressies, his defending one on one is very ordinary, needs some work.
Raph keeps his spot for mine, Blake to play back in Gilbert's spot.

Agreed re: Gilbert. Sure Raph has turned the ball over a couple of times but at least he is playing a role for the team at the moment. Right now, Gilbert isn't. He will benefit from finding some touch and form with Casey.

Exactly, totally agree.

[saintbrat]

The Saints and Bulldogs will compete for the Barker-Whitten Challenge trophy, an award that honours the late Trevor Barker and Ted Whitten.

The former VFL stars both fell victim to cancer after distinguished careers with their respective clubs.

Since it's inception in 2000, the award has been won five times by St Kilda and twice by the Bulldogs.

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx? ... ntID=65423

[meher baba]

For mine, it would be either Gilbert or Geary to be left out for BJ, with my thinking veering gradually towards the latter.

Gilbert is getting close to a game in the scorps, but deserves another week. Geary surely knows that his spot will always depend on injuries/form losses to other players: don't anyone try to tell me that he has gone from rookie to automatic pick in our top 22 in the space of 2 games!! Whereas, on last season's form, Gilbert was very close to being an automatic selection.

I agree with the sentiment that BJ couldn't do what Raph currently does. But he could do what Gilbert has done in the past two games, and do it far better. And Gilbert could probably do what Geary has been doing.

[avid]

If Goddard's in, then my guess is that it will be Geary who goes. It's either him or Raph or Gilbert -- I can't see anyone else at all being dropped. Neither of those three deserve to be dropped either, and Geary is perhaps the best of the three on form. But I think Gilbo and Raph are being expected to play themselves back into form, whereas Geary is getting "a taste", and will perhaps be rotated in and out anyway.

The performance of our forward line is a greater worry. Two models of delivery and structure have been tried now, and both spluttered along at best. (even allowing for Riewoldt's game v Sydney, and Fraz's and Milnie's v Carl) I've got a bad premonition that the Dogs will make us look like we've nowhere to go when we go forward.

Oh no, Please God don't make it go bad!

(Sorry, just my pre-match preparation, wrestling with decades of in-grown pessimisim.)

[bigcarl]

The performance of our forward line is a greater worry. Two models of delivery and structure have been tried now, and both spluttered along at best.

we kicked 125 points last week (granted it was against carlton) and won by 40 points. we had eight goal-kickers.

of course it can always improve, but i'm not sure what you expect.

if i was RL i'd have them doing the same as they did last week, only better.

i've no doubt that the main topic of discussion among bulldog supporters is how in the hell are they going to shut down our tall forwards.

while they are worrying about that i'm hoping that milney, schneider and x-man can fly under the radar again.

it's unlikely that all of our fowards will fire simultaneously in any given game. we don't need them to. just three or four will do.

perhaps it will be kosi's day this week ... or maybe roo's. maybe fraser's again. doesn't matter so long as between them they kick a winning score.

[coolingbaba]

Dropping King is a ridiculous idea. He kicked 2 goals last week and thats what we need..goals. Although I like Rafael Clarke I'm gona have to say drop him for BJ. He gives away too many silly free kicks and is not strong enough.

Ppl are forgetting what will be a critical part of this game: midfield goalkickers. Last week all the Dog midfielders kicked a heap of goals, and we really struggle in this area. If Kosi and Roo both have another shocker, and Harris (Lake) beat Gehrig last year...Dal Santo, Ball, Hayes, Harvey, Montagna MUST all start kicking goals!

[HarveysDeciple]

The performance of our forward line is a greater worry. Two models of delivery and structure have been tried now, and both spluttered along at best.

we kicked 125 points last week (granted it was against carlton) and won by 40 points. we had eight goal-kickers.

of course it can always improve, but i'm not sure what you expect.

if i was RL i'd have them doing the same as they did last week, only better.

i've no doubt that the main topic of discussion among bulldog supporters is how in the hell are they going to shut down our tall forwards.

while they are worrying about that i'm hoping that milney, schneider and x-man can fly under the radar again.

it's unlikely that all of our fowards will fire simultaneously in any given game. we don't need them to. just three or four will do.

perhaps it will be kosi's day this week ... or maybe roo's. maybe fraser's again. doesn't matter so long as between them they kick a winning score.

absolutely agree.

it's not conceivable to have all of our front 6 fire on one day.

if they do, we probably kick 35 goals.

However even the forwards who aren't necessarily marking and scoring can do a job.
Just Kozi's presence alone can drag a double team away from Riewoldt.

and Riewoldt leading up the ground can isolate Kozi one out for a contested mark.

As for the gilbo/raph debate, I wouldn't be surprised if Gilbo was carrying some sort of injury.
Doesn't seem to have the same burst speed from last year, or the mobility.
Might be drawing a long bow but who knows.

[SaintBot]

I agree with the sentiment that BJ couldn't do what Raph currently does. But he could do what Gilbert has done in the past two games, and do it far better. And Gilbert could probably do what Geary has been doing.

I'd argue that Gilbert could do what Raph does - Yet Raph couldnt do what Gilbert does

[bigcarl]

absolutely agree.

it's not conceivable to have all of our front 6 fire on one day.

if they do, we probably kick 35 goals.

However even the forwards who aren't necessarily marking and scoring can do a job.
Just Kozi's presence alone can drag a double team away from Riewoldt.

and Riewoldt leading up the ground can isolate Kozi one out for a contested mark.

good call. i hope RL sticks to his guns on our tall forward set up and doesn't change it around just because fatpryk smith and rodgerfox don't like it