Demetriou's Denials Don't Change The Facts - Today's Crikey

[markinUSA]

For me, a relatively marginal part of this story gained my attention - the use of the word "gormlessly". It wasn't a word I'd ever heqrd before. So I looked it up, and it means 'stupidly'. I'm not sure if that was actually the meaning the author wished to convey or not - was he implying that the Players Association would just be 'stupid' to allow this to happen, or did he mean more - was he really saying that they'd be selling out their members if they did it? Was he really implying that accepting this plan would be 'cowardly'; or 'improper' more than 'goremless'?

[Teflon]

I guess the thing that makes it not so plausable is that AD would have to be one of the stupidest men alive to have a conversation like that in a public palce where he can be heard. Behind closed doors I can certainly imagine that conversation happening, but the fact it happened where it did is suspicious. I am pretty sure anyone in a powerful position in the AFL would want to keep their job and not act like a tool in public and disclose a personal oppinion which could see someone like him sacked.

I know people who have had a bit to do with Dimwit in private business and yup he's as loud and as arrogant as your ever gonna get. Not a nice person to deal with as it was pointed out to me - BUT super cocky. I guess, sadly in todays world, its those cocky smarmy prats that get to the top......and leave the rest of us wondering how they sleep at night after speaking to and generally treating people like cr@p....but they always seem to...and usually,financially anyway, get rewarded.

Im tippin he thought he had the Roos over the line, convinced this was the deal for them and Andy dont like to be denied and was demonstrating to a genuinely super un-impressive and WEAK Gale what a tough Greek boy can do....even with sqaure glasses.

In words of Mr Potatoe Head - "toss him overboard".

[Huzzad]

... Unfortunatly without audio evidence, AD can deny it all he wants, that was all I was pointing out. If there was audio, then AD would most likely have his job on the line by now. Please try to read my posts more carefully in the future.

My understanding is that even if the person listening had an audio recorder it's outside the law to use it without informing them first - therefore, for all we know there is an audio record of the conversation - the details were so concise that the first thing I thought of was that it must have been recorded. Many journo's wouldn't even go to the loo without their recorder.

Well I suspected as much too, but has anyone seen the fines that media companies get for using one? It is probably a slap on the wrist. If channel 7 can name victims in rape cases and underage minors testifying against criminals, which is against the law, then i am sure crikey could cop a little fine from the media beaurocrats. Unless of course the fear is that AD would try to sue them, but by then his job would be on the line and would need some serious cash to take Crikey to court. Interesting theory though. I guess it is like the Steve Irwin tape, it might never come out....if it exists that is. If not, anyone with a good recall of conversations and a pen could have just written it down.

[stinger]

He's far from stupid, just breathtakingly arrogant (and a little unlucky about who overheard), and it's not like he's the head of ASIO spilling national secrets. It happens.

No it is not ASIO, but if they actually had a recording of this, undisputed evidence or something, AD would most likely be out of a job or called to resign. His reputation would be forever shattered. So, it is really stupid to have a conversation of this nature in a public place where an article like this could be written.

Security is a huge part of the AFL. It would be the same if corperate business secrets got out. Do you see board meetings taking place in a crowded cafe? No, they are done behind closed doors.
Remember what happened when channel 7 got those medical documents? They might have been private, and definatly not national secrets, but they could have severly tarnished careers and public images of the players involved, not to mention the AFL itself. And if anyone actually recorded the AD conversation, then his job would definatly be in trouble. So it was a very stupid move.

are you andy's best mate...if such a creature exists...or are you andy himself.....????...give it a rest would you...the guy got caught red=handed...the crickey journo has more cred than andy has...ffs......

What on earth are you talking about? I was calling AD stupid and explaining why what he said was stupid. Unfortunatly without audio evidence, AD can deny it all he wants, that was all I was pointing out. If there was audio, then AD would most likely have his job on the line by now. Please try to read my posts more carefully in the future.

what you said originally was this....


"I guess the thing that makes it not so plausable is that AD would have to be one of the stupidest men alive to have a conversation like that in a public palce where he can be heard. Behind closed doors I can certainly imagine that conversation happening, but the fact it happened where it did is suspicious. I am pretty sure anyone in a powerful position in the AFL would want to keep their job and not act like a tool in public and disclose a personal oppinion which could see someone like him sacked.'


...so i stick to my original comments......

[plugger66]

... Unfortunatly without audio evidence, AD can deny it all he wants, that was all I was pointing out. If there was audio, then AD would most likely have his job on the line by now. Please try to read my posts more carefully in the future.

My understanding is that even if the person listening had an audio recorder it's outside the law to use it without informing them first - therefore, for all we know there is an audio record of the conversation - the details were so concise that the first thing I thought of was that it must have been recorded. Many journo's wouldn't even go to the loo without their recorder.

Well I suspected as much too, but has anyone seen the fines that media companies get for using one? It is probably a slap on the wrist. If channel 7 can name victims in rape cases and underage minors testifying against criminals, which is against the law, then i am sure crikey could cop a little fine from the media beaurocrats. Unless of course the fear is that AD would try to sue them, but by then his job would be on the line and would need some serious cash to take Crikey to court. Interesting theory though. I guess it is like the Steve Irwin tape, it might never come out....if it exists that is. If not, anyone with a good recall of conversations and a pen could have just written it down.

So now there could be a tape. What rubbish. The reporter wasnt even there. His friends overheard it but he may be just saying that because he really has a tape. Give me a break. The hatred of the man running the best competition in Australia amazes me. Is it because we are not good enough to win a flag so its AD fault.

[GrumpyOne]

Is it because we are not good enough to win a flag so its AD fault.

Where did that zinger come from Plug?

The discussion is about Dimwit either being a loud arrogant tool who spills secrets in public, or just being a loud arrogant tool. Nothing to do with our lack of success in the last 40 years.

[stinger]

[ The hatred of the man running the best competition in Australia amazes me. Is it because we are not good enough to win a flag so its AD fault.

drawing a long bow there chappie.....


you ever met the man????

......he's the first guy to ever perfectly match the slang name for a woman's most private parts......

wtf has this got to do with the saints winning or not winning premerships ffs.....

[stinger]

great minds g o ...great minds....

[GrumpyOne]

great minds g o ...great minds....

B4 would say something about fools seldom differing.....

[stinger]

great minds g o ...great minds....

B4 would say something about fools seldom differing.....

he'd know...his posts are all the same.......

[GrumpyOne]

great minds g o ...great minds....

B4 would say something about fools seldom differing.....

he'd know...his posts are all the same.......

Perhaps he is not real..... just a cleverly programmed computer...... Has anybody seen him and his computer in the same room?

[plugger66]

[ The hatred of the man running the best competition in Australia amazes me. Is it because we are not good enough to win a flag so its AD fault.

drawing a long bow there chappie.....


you ever met the man????

......he's the first guy to ever perfectly match the slang name for a woman's most private parts......

wtf has this got to do with the saints winning or not winning premerships ffs.....

It has a fair to do with it. Do you think Geelong people hate him as much as on here. I would think not and that may be due to winning the flag. On here we seem to think AD is at fault all the time and I am sure a few on here think he is responsible for us not winning a flag.

Everyone on here go on about reporters being the the biggest fools in the world if they write something negative about the Saints but in this case we trust the reporter. He wasnt even there but people beleive a story that has more holes in it than Coon cheese.

[GrumpyOne]

[ The hatred of the man running the best competition in Australia amazes me. Is it because we are not good enough to win a flag so its AD fault.

drawing a long bow there chappie.....


you ever met the man????

......he's the first guy to ever perfectly match the slang name for a woman's most private parts......

wtf has this got to do with the saints winning or not winning premerships ffs.....

It has a fair to do with it. Do you think Geelong people hate him as much as on here. I would think not and that may be due to winning the flag. On here we seem to think AD is at fault all the time and I am sure a few on here think he is responsible for us not winning a flag.

Everyone on here go on about reporters being the the biggest fools in the world if they write something negative about the Saints but in this case we trust the reporter. He wasnt even there but people beleive a story that has more holes in it than Coon cheese.

Not being a visitor to the Feline's Forum, I don't know whether they hate him as much as we do. But I imagine that they are still in the state of euphoria to which I wish to become accustomed to.

Only B4 would make a suggestion that Dimwit has cost us a flag, and thats because his name is one of the inner rings of B4's dartboard, near GT and RB.

[plugger66]

[ The hatred of the man running the best competition in Australia amazes me. Is it because we are not good enough to win a flag so its AD fault.

drawing a long bow there chappie.....


you ever met the man????

......he's the first guy to ever perfectly match the slang name for a woman's most private parts......

wtf has this got to do with the saints winning or not winning premerships ffs.....

It has a fair to do with it. Do you think Geelong people hate him as much as on here. I would think not and that may be due to winning the flag. On here we seem to think AD is at fault all the time and I am sure a few on here think he is responsible for us not winning a flag.

Everyone on here go on about reporters being the the biggest fools in the world if they write something negative about the Saints but in this case we trust the reporter. He wasnt even there but people beleive a story that has more holes in it than Coon cheese.

Not being a visitor to the Feline's Forum, I don't know whether they hate him as much as we do. But I imagine that they are still in the state of euphoria to which I wish to become accustomed to.

Only B4 would make a suggestion that Dimwit has cost us a flag, and thats because his name is one of the inner rings of B4's dartboard, near GT and RB.

What about people who say the draw is rigged, the umpires cheat against us and so on. They are in some ways blaming the AFL for our short comings.

[GrumpyOne]

What about people who say the draw is rigged, the umpires cheat against us and so on. They are in some ways blaming the AFL for our short comings.

Conspiracy theorists shooting from the grassy knoll......

[Mr Magic]

[quote="plugger66What about people who say the draw is rigged, the umpires cheat against us and so on. They are in some ways blaming the AFL for our short comings.[/quote]


The AFL 'admit' that they ensure Collingwood plays as many games as possible in Melbourne to maximise crowds. In itself that is 'rigging the draw'.

The mere fact that they ask all Clubs to submit a 'wish list' for the upcoming draw, which they try to accomodate, means that it must be compromized to some extent. To suggest it is not 'rigged' and therefore totally fair beggars belief.

As for Umpires, I don't believe they deliberately cheat - I just believe they make mistakes, especially at interstate grounds where they seem to be swayed by the noise of the 'home crowds'.

In that case the fact that WCE, Freo, PA, Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney have 11 games per season against opposition from interstate and as such have the benefit of 'roar factor' to influence umpiring decisions.

[plugger66]

[quote="plugger66What about people who say the draw is rigged, the umpires cheat against us and so on. They are in some ways blaming the AFL for our short comings.

The AFL 'admit' that they ensure Collingwood plays as many games as possible in Melbourne to maximise crowds. In itself that is 'rigging the draw'.

The mere fact that they ask all Clubs to submit a 'wish list' for the upcoming draw, which they try to accomodate, means that it must be compromized to some extent. To suggest it is not 'rigged' and therefore totally fair beggars belief.

As for Umpires, I don't believe they deliberately cheat - I just believe they make mistakes, especially at interstate grounds where they seem to be swayed by the noise of the 'home crowds'.

In that case the fact that WCE, Freo, PA, Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney have 11 games per season against opposition from interstate and as such have the benefit of 'roar factor' to influence umpiring decisions.[/quote]

Yes the AFL do the draw to suit most clubs but people on here say we get a bad deal. We do not get any worse than most clubs. As for the roar factor the figures actually dont suggest that but again people say we get the worst the umpiring especially when we lose. Just look at old posts to see that.

[Mr Magic]

[Yes the AFL do the draw to suit most clubs but people on here say we get a bad deal. We do not get any worse than most clubs. As for the roar factor the figures actually dont suggest that but again people say we get the worst the umpiring especially when we lose. Just look at old posts to see that.

Well you could argue that we get a worse draw then
WCE - 11 Home games in WA
Freo - 11 Home games in WA
PA - 11 Home games in SA
Crows - 11 Home games in SA
Sydney - 11 Home games in Sydney
Brisbane - 11 Home games in Brisbane (plus an extra off Melbourne)
Collingwood - lack of travel
Geelong - 5/6 Home games at Kardinia Park
Hawthorn - 4 games in Tassie
Kangaroos - 3/4 games in Gold Coast

That's 10 clubs out of 16 which would make it a majority of other Clubs.

As for the figures on the 'roar factor' it depends on ewehat sort of statisitics you are looking at. You know that you can make statisitics support any position you want them to. You certainly are not suggesting that the celebrated games against PA at Moron Park and Freo in the 'Whispers in the Sky' would support your contention?

[plugger66]

[Yes the AFL do the draw to suit most clubs but people on here say we get a bad deal. We do not get any worse than most clubs. As for the roar factor the figures actually dont suggest that but again people say we get the worst the umpiring especially when we lose. Just look at old posts to see that.

Well you could argue that we get a worse draw then
WCE - 11 Home games in WA
Freo - 11 Home games in WA
PA - 11 Home games in SA
Crows - 11 Home games in SA
Sydney - 11 Home games in Sydney
Brisbane - 11 Home games in Brisbane (plus an extra off Melbourne)
Collingwood - lack of travel
Geelong - 5/6 Home games at Kardinia Park
Hawthorn - 4 games in Tassie
Kangaroos - 3/4 games in Gold Coast

That's 10 clubs out of 16 which would make it a majority of other Clubs.

As for the figures on the 'roar factor' it depends on ewehat sort of statisitics you are looking at. You know that you can make statisitics support any position you want them to. You certainly are not suggesting that the celebrated games against PA at Moron Park and Freo in the 'Whispers in the Sky' would support your contention?

As I said earlier people blame the AFL for our draw and umpiring. thanks for supporting my opinion.

[Mr Magic]

[Yes the AFL do the draw to suit most clubs but people on here say we get a bad deal. We do not get any worse than most clubs. As for the roar factor the figures actually dont suggest that but again people say we get the worst the umpiring especially when we lose. Just look at old posts to see that.

Well you could argue that we get a worse draw then
WCE - 11 Home games in WA
Freo - 11 Home games in WA
PA - 11 Home games in SA
Crows - 11 Home games in SA
Sydney - 11 Home games in Sydney
Brisbane - 11 Home games in Brisbane (plus an extra off Melbourne)
Collingwood - lack of travel
Geelong - 5/6 Home games at Kardinia Park
Hawthorn - 4 games in Tassie
Kangaroos - 3/4 games in Gold Coast

That's 10 clubs out of 16 which would make it a majority of other Clubs.

As for the figures on the 'roar factor' it depends on ewehat sort of statisitics you are looking at. You know that you can make statisitics support any position you want them to. You certainly are not suggesting that the celebrated games against PA at Moron Park and Freo in the 'Whispers in the Sky' would support your contention?

As I said earlier people blame the AFL for our draw and umpiring. thanks for supporting my opinion.

What's wrong with saying that the draw is 'rigged' or 'compromised'? The AFL admit it.

And if that's the case then yes, we are disadvantaged in the draw in comparison to those teams that are 'favoured' in the draw.

That is a simple fact. It by no means explains our lack of success, but to deny that it contributes ( to any extent) is just plainly wrong.

Why can't you accept that your original statement should have been that people on here say 'all our lack of success can be attributed to the AFL 'rigging the draw' and umpires cheating, rather than implying that neither the draw nor umpires play any part in our lack of success?
?

[plugger66]

[Yes the AFL do the draw to suit most clubs but people on here say we get a bad deal. We do not get any worse than most clubs. As for the roar factor the figures actually dont suggest that but again people say we get the worst the umpiring especially when we lose. Just look at old posts to see that.

Well you could argue that we get a worse draw then
WCE - 11 Home games in WA
Freo - 11 Home games in WA
PA - 11 Home games in SA
Crows - 11 Home games in SA
Sydney - 11 Home games in Sydney
Brisbane - 11 Home games in Brisbane (plus an extra off Melbourne)
Collingwood - lack of travel
Geelong - 5/6 Home games at Kardinia Park
Hawthorn - 4 games in Tassie
Kangaroos - 3/4 games in Gold Coast

That's 10 clubs out of 16 which would make it a majority of other Clubs.

As for the figures on the 'roar factor' it depends on ewehat sort of statisitics you are looking at. You know that you can make statisitics support any position you want them to. You certainly are not suggesting that the celebrated games against PA at Moron Park and Freo in the 'Whispers in the Sky' would support your contention?

As I said earlier people blame the AFL for our draw and umpiring. thanks for supporting my opinion.

What's wrong with saying that the draw is 'rigged' or 'compromised'? The AFL admit it.

And if that's the case then yes, we are disadvantaged in the draw in comparison to those teams that are 'favoured' in the draw.

That is a simple fact. It by no means explains our lack of success, but to deny that it contributes ( to any extent) is just plainly wrong.

Why can't you accept that your original statement should have been that people on here say 'all our lack of success can be attributed to the AFL 'rigging the draw' and umpires cheating, rather than implying that neither the draw nor umpires play any part in our lack of success?
?

The draw is not rigged to hurt the Saints as people suggest. We also do not get bad decisions to hurt the Saints as people suggest. That is what I am saying. And you saying clubs getting a better draw because they play in the home state well to me I dont see how that can be avoided. Also including the Hawks and the Roos as a better draw when they travel to neutral grounds for a home game well did you think we had a better draw when we played home games in Tassie. If you did you are the only one. The only sides that may get special treatment are the pies, bombers and blues and that is because all other sides want to play them.

[Mr Magic]

[Yes the AFL do the draw to suit most clubs but people on here say we get a bad deal. We do not get any worse than most clubs. As for the roar factor the figures actually dont suggest that but again people say we get the worst the umpiring especially when we lose. Just look at old posts to see that.

Well you could argue that we get a worse draw then
WCE - 11 Home games in WA
Freo - 11 Home games in WA
PA - 11 Home games in SA
Crows - 11 Home games in SA
Sydney - 11 Home games in Sydney
Brisbane - 11 Home games in Brisbane (plus an extra off Melbourne)
Collingwood - lack of travel
Geelong - 5/6 Home games at Kardinia Park
Hawthorn - 4 games in Tassie
Kangaroos - 3/4 games in Gold Coast

That's 10 clubs out of 16 which would make it a majority of other Clubs.

As for the figures on the 'roar factor' it depends on ewehat sort of statisitics you are looking at. You know that you can make statisitics support any position you want them to. You certainly are not suggesting that the celebrated games against PA at Moron Park and Freo in the 'Whispers in the Sky' would support your contention?

As I said earlier people blame the AFL for our draw and umpiring. thanks for supporting my opinion.

What's wrong with saying that the draw is 'rigged' or 'compromised'? The AFL admit it.

And if that's the case then yes, we are disadvantaged in the draw in comparison to those teams that are 'favoured' in the draw.

That is a simple fact. It by no means explains our lack of success, but to deny that it contributes ( to any extent) is just plainly wrong.

Why can't you accept that your original statement should have been that people on here say 'all our lack of success can be attributed to the AFL 'rigging the draw' and umpires cheating, rather than implying that neither the draw nor umpires play any part in our lack of success?
?

The draw is not rigged to hurt the Saints as people suggest. We also do not get bad decisions to hurt the Saints as people suggest. That is what I am saying. And you saying clubs getting a better draw because they play in the home state well to me I dont see how that can be avoided. Also including the Hawks and the Roos as a better draw when they travel to neutral grounds for a home game well did you think we had a better draw when we played home games in Tassie. If you did you are the only one. The only sides that may get special treatment are the pies, bombers and blues and that is because all other sides want to play them.

So now you agree that the AFL 'rig' the draw but not to specifically 'screw' the Saints?
DO you also accept that teh 'home ground advantage' to all the interstate clubs by playing 11 games against out of state comtetitors is a greater advantage than playing 11 home games at the Telstra Dome (including 3-4 games against fellow tennants?

As for the Hawks anf Kangaroos, they play more often than any other teams at Launceston'Gold Coast and therefore I could argue that those grounds are less 'neutral' to them than to any other team - much like Kardinya Park (Skilled Stadium) is to Geelong. Furthermore I could argue that when we play an away game against Carlton at the Dome we are at an advantage because of the number of times we play there in comparison to them.

With regards to our ill-fated sojourn to Tassie I believe that we played PA/Freo and possibly Hawthorn there each year and each of those teams played as many games in Launceston per year as we did and therefore we had no advantage?

Plugger, I understand your frustration with posters who blame every 'ailment under the sun' on outside influences rather than our own shortcomings, but to suggest that the draw is 'not rigged' to bolster your argument is, IMHO, just factually wrong.

[stinger]

[ The hatred of the man running the best competition in Australia amazes me. Is it because we are not good enough to win a flag so its AD fault.

drawing a long bow there chappie.....


you ever met the man????

......he's the first guy to ever perfectly match the slang name for a woman's most private parts......

wtf has this got to do with the saints winning or not winning premerships ffs.....

It has a fair to do with it. Do you think Geelong people hate him as much as on here. I would think not and that may be due to winning the flag. On here we seem to think AD is at fault all the time and I am sure a few on here think he is responsible for us not winning a flag.

Everyone on here go on about reporters being the the biggest fools in the world if they write something negative about the Saints but in this case we trust the reporter. He wasnt even there but people beleive a story that has more holes in it than Coon cheese.

he's from crickey ffs....he's not a loser like noddy sheahen. fatprick smith or that ugly hag fromn the age......of course he's got credibility...more that that fat free lunch,dimwit.

..i belIEve HIM....you can belIEve what you like...free world....well it is at the moment...until rudd really starts to exert himself.....the internet censorship is just the start....

[Huzzad]

He's far from stupid, just breathtakingly arrogant (and a little unlucky about who overheard), and it's not like he's the head of ASIO spilling national secrets. It happens.

No it is not ASIO, but if they actually had a recording of this, undisputed evidence or something, AD would most likely be out of a job or called to resign. His reputation would be forever shattered. So, it is really stupid to have a conversation of this nature in a public place where an article like this could be written.

Security is a huge part of the AFL. It would be the same if corperate business secrets got out. Do you see board meetings taking place in a crowded cafe? No, they are done behind closed doors.
Remember what happened when channel 7 got those medical documents? They might have been private, and definatly not national secrets, but they could have severly tarnished careers and public images of the players involved, not to mention the AFL itself. And if anyone actually recorded the AD conversation, then his job would definatly be in trouble. So it was a very stupid move.

are you andy's best mate...if such a creature exists...or are you andy himself.....????...give it a rest would you...the guy got caught red=handed...the crickey journo has more cred than andy has...ffs......

What on earth are you talking about? I was calling AD stupid and explaining why what he said was stupid. Unfortunatly without audio evidence, AD can deny it all he wants, that was all I was pointing out. If there was audio, then AD would most likely have his job on the line by now. Please try to read my posts more carefully in the future.

what you said originally was this....


"I guess the thing that makes it not so plausable is that AD would have to be one of the stupidest men alive to have a conversation like that in a public palce where he can be heard. Behind closed doors I can certainly imagine that conversation happening, but the fact it happened where it did is suspicious. I am pretty sure anyone in a powerful position in the AFL would want to keep their job and not act like a tool in public and disclose a personal oppinion which could see someone like him sacked.'


...so i stick to my original comments......

Yes, I know what I said. I wrote it. I just wonder how on earth that you interpreted it as "Andy's best friend" instead of as dubious member of the public questioning the validity of an article written with a very subjective tone about someone revealing information of that magnitude in a public place which could result in the publishing of an article. And goodness knows what else could have happened had their been other forms of media personel there, not to mention people associated with the North Melbourne Football Club, who may have been eating at the same venue.

My point was and is that while there may be some truth to this, if the article is 100% factual then AD must have taken public relations lessons with the Bush Administration. All I was simply pointing out was the dubious "evidence" which the article cites. As someone who has studied media and media perspective & presentation in the past, I couldn't help but be a little skeptical of the integrity of the article, which was not helped by the following articles that attacked AD's denials. Now I am not refuting that the covnersation took place. I am jsut saying the circumstances surrounding it involve AD being incredibly arrogant (definatly a possibility) and an article with subjective undertones from a website that seems to be focused (from my viewing of it) on personal criticism and oppinion as opposed to objective reporting (then again all news media can be blamed for this).

Plus there was this from author of the article, Charles Happell himself:

"Of course there is no proof. This person didn't have a tape recorder on them."

That was from http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 88,00.html



If I was "andy's best friend" I am pretty sure you'd get a very different comment from me. Probably something along the lines of "*@*# *@*#* you mother$*%&#^@ you know %*^(#$( you mother%(%(%ing ^))%! etc etc etc"

[saintspremiers]

The draw is not rigged to hurt the Saints as people suggest.

Bullshyte.

Please explain what happend to our draw for the 2006 season whereby we were "given" a bonus 2 interstate games (from 5 to 7) at the last minute, purely coincidental to GT's comments re umpires.....