Work Ethic

[saintsRrising]

I have often wondered if the Saints believe the hype of the Best List
.

Just on the "Best List'...

It is interesting to note that since when that was first being chucked about...say 2004...that we have a lot pf player changes.

For example the team that thrashed the eagles in Round 9 2004 169 to 68 had the following players.

Player Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Against
Nick Riewoldt 21 6 27 15 2 3 0 1 1 0
Austinn Jones 15 8 23 3 1 0 2 0 0 1
Lenny Hayes 10 11 21 2 0 0 13 0 1 0
Luke Ball 11 9 20 4 0 0 5 0 1 1
Stephen Powell 13 7 20 4 0 1 5 0 0 1
Nick Dal Santo 11 7 18 3 0 1 5 1 0 1
Andrew Thompson 7 10 17 4 0 1 3 0 0 0
Aaron Hamill 9 7 16 5 4 0 2 0 1 1
Stephen Milne 12 3 15 4 4 1 0 0 0 1
Brendon Goddard 3 11 14 3 0 0 0 0 0 1
Steven Baker 10 3 13 1 0 1 4 0 0 0
Matthew Maguire 10 3 13 6 0 0 4 0 1 0
Xavier Clarke 5 6 11 2 1 0 1 0 0 1
Brent Guerra 10 1 11 3 7 0 2 0 0 1
Max Hudghton 7 3 10 4 1 0 0 0 0 0
Justin Koschitzke 6 4 10 3 1 1 0 17 0 1
Fraser Gehrig 7 1 8 4 5 1 1 1 2 2
Troy Schwarze 4 3 7 2 0 0 2 0 0 1
Jason Blake 4 3 7 5 0 0 2 8 1 0
Trent Knobel 2 5 7 3 0 0 0 17 0 2
Luke Penny 4 2 6 2 0 0 2 0 0 2
Leigh Fisher 1 2 3 0 0 0 0 0


Eight of them are gone.

[rodgerfox]

I have often wondered if the Saints believe the hype of the Best List
.

Just on the "Best List'...

It is interesting to note that since when that was first being chucked about...say 2004...that we have a lot pf player changes.

For example the team that thrashed the eagles in Round 9 2004 169 to 68 had the following players.

Player Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Against
Nick Riewoldt 21 6 27 15 2 3 0 1 1 0
Austinn Jones 15 8 23 3 1 0 2 0 0 1
Lenny Hayes 10 11 21 2 0 0 13 0 1 0
Luke Ball 11 9 20 4 0 0 5 0 1 1
Stephen Powell 13 7 20 4 0 1 5 0 0 1
Nick Dal Santo 11 7 18 3 0 1 5 1 0 1
Andrew Thompson 7 10 17 4 0 1 3 0 0 0
Aaron Hamill 9 7 16 5 4 0 2 0 1 1
Stephen Milne 12 3 15 4 4 1 0 0 0 1
Brendon Goddard 3 11 14 3 0 0 0 0 0 1
Steven Baker 10 3 13 1 0 1 4 0 0 0
Matthew Maguire 10 3 13 6 0 0 4 0 1 0
Xavier Clarke 5 6 11 2 1 0 1 0 0 1
Brent Guerra 10 1 11 3 7 0 2 0 0 1
Max Hudghton 7 3 10 4 1 0 0 0 0 0
Justin Koschitzke 6 4 10 3 1 1 0 17 0 1
Fraser Gehrig 7 1 8 4 5 1 1 1 2 2
Troy Schwarze 4 3 7 2 0 0 2 0 0 1
Jason Blake 4 3 7 5 0 0 2 8 1 0
Trent Knobel 2 5 7 3 0 0 0 17 0 2
Luke Penny 4 2 6 2 0 0 2 0 0 2 Leigh Fisher


Eight of them are gone.

And 8 of them have an extra 3 pre-seasons under their belts.

[yipper]

Yes Ross has had 12 months to suss out players and work out who is walking the walk....and who were only talking the walk!!!


Then there area few others that he needs to prod to walk faster

Demster & Schneider are both strong runners they will take a few of our players to another level, both 23 year olds and premiership players they are not coming here to be under achievers.....with Rooie steping up as our leader and a bit of fresh running there are a few that will have to step up to new levels....pre season will be worth watching

Agreed. Should be a more interesting pre-season than usual.

[saintsRrising]

Austinn Jones > Gram

Stephen Powell > Birss

Andrew Thompson = Joey ( though Joey may be greater than in 2008)

Aaron Hamill > C Gardiner

Brent Guerra < Schneider

Troy Schwarze < Gilbert

Trent Knobel < King

Luke Penny < S Fisher (quite different players. Sam is very attacking whereas Penny wasa great stopper.)

[rodgerfox]

Austinn Jones > Gram

Stephen Powell > Birss

Andrew Thompson = Joey ( though Joey may be greater than in 2008)

Aaron Hamill > C Gardiner

Brent Guerra < Schneider

Troy Schwarze < Gilbert

Trent Knobel < King

Luke Penny < S Fisher (quite different players. Sam is very attacking whereas Penny wasa great stopper.)

You left out....

Roo 2004 < Roo 2007
Kosi 2004 < Kosi 2007
Goddard 2004 < Goddard 2007
Dal Santo, Sam Fisher etc. etc. etc. etc.

Keep in mind also, it wasn't just 2004 where the garbage about the 'best list in the comp' was going on.

That was going on as late as 2006.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Good thread, and great timing, right before the season for us to measure it against our expectations.

Little question of the talent of much of our list. Little question that both talnet level and completion has increased over the off season. Question marks around durability, and BIG question marks around the teams mental fortitude.

I think some individuals are criticised on the front unfairly. The Clarke's, Fiora, Dal... However, the reason it's there is because they're seen as iconic in the performance of the whole team, and as posters above have pointed out, the list of players who can be said to be above criticism in this regard is short - Reiwoldt, Harvey, Hayes. Probably Hudghton as well. As a group, the team has frequently (as pointed out by others) let the opposition off the hook, failed to fight back, and failed to take advantage. During 2004/05 they made up for it frequently with belief that they were better than their opponents and would eventually win games, but since then, it's been apparrent that in the face of determined and stubborn opposition, few Saints are really there to grit out a win.

Beyond fitness, their performance in this area will go a long way to determining just how far the '08 Saints can go.

On another note, perhaps this is the explanation behind Jones promotion.

[saintsRrising]

On another note, perhaps this is the explanation behind Jones promotion.

...and dare I say in Blake getting so much game time in 2007.

Jones looked good in the Intra club Game (obviously much lower standrad than AFL though),,,,,but yes players that are really committed to a high work rate may well earn places in the 22 over more naturally gifted team mates.......or at least put a lot more pressure on them to gain a place.

[Armoooo]

The work ethic is a big deal but I also believe it is down to the aerobic capactiy, a lot of players have shed the pounds over the off-season so it should be good to see if they can put in a solid 4 quarter performance more often.

[saintsRrising]

The work ethic is a big deal but I also believe it is down to the aerobic capactiy, a lot of players have shed the pounds over the off-season so it should be good to see if they can put in a solid 4 quarter performance more often.

Yes there does seem to have beena change in emphasis from muscle and power to leeness and increased aerobic capacity....ie to have a team with increased running capacity.

[rodgerfox]

The work ethic is a big deal but I also believe it is down to the aerobic capactiy, a lot of players have shed the pounds over the off-season so it should be good to see if they can put in a solid 4 quarter performance more often.

Yes there does seem to have beena change in emphasis from muscle and power to leenes and increased aerobic capacity....ie to have a team with increased running capacity.

Who drives that?

Drain or Lyon?

[sunsaint]

The work ethic is a big deal but I also believe it is down to the aerobic capactiy, a lot of players have shed the pounds over the off-season so it should be good to see if they can put in a solid 4 quarter performance more often.

Yes there does seem to have beena change in emphasis from muscle and power to leeness and increased aerobic capacity....ie to have a team with increased running capacity.

And yet the one player we need to improve his speed and 4 quarter performance (Dal Santo) by all accounts has put on a lot of bulk in the off season...

[plugger66]

The work ethic is a big deal but I also believe it is down to the aerobic capactiy, a lot of players have shed the pounds over the off-season so it should be good to see if they can put in a solid 4 quarter performance more often.

Yes there does seem to have beena change in emphasis from muscle and power to leeness and increased aerobic capacity....ie to have a team with increased running capacity.

And yet the one player we need to improve his speed and 4 quarter performance (Dal Santo) by all accounts has put on a lot of bulk in the off season...

I would doubt many players have put on bulk apart from second and third year players. Dal looks the same to me as he has the last 3 preseasons.

[Armoooo]

IMO there is no problem with pace in our lineup, we are fast enough, you rarely see teams run over the top of us in the first quarter, it's in the 3rd and 4th quarters where our players start to look slow and to me that indicates a fitness problem...

[sunsaint]

The work ethic is a big deal but I also believe it is down to the aerobic capactiy, a lot of players have shed the pounds over the off-season so it should be good to see if they can put in a solid 4 quarter performance more often.

Yes there does seem to have beena change in emphasis from muscle and power to leeness and increased aerobic capacity....ie to have a team with increased running capacity.

And yet the one player we need to improve his speed and 4 quarter performance (Dal Santo) by all accounts has put on a lot of bulk in the off season...

I would doubt many players have put on bulk apart from second and third year players. Dal looks the same to me as he has the last 3 preseasons.

Just basing that statement on SrR's observation,
http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=39942
Living up here in qld I have to go by the unbiased, quality statements of highly respected posters

[saintsRrising]

The work ethic is a big deal but I also believe it is down to the aerobic capactiy, a lot of players have shed the pounds over the off-season so it should be good to see if they can put in a solid 4 quarter performance more often.

Yes there does seem to have beena change in emphasis from muscle and power to leeness and increased aerobic capacity....ie to have a team with increased running capacity.

And yet the one player we need to improve his speed and 4 quarter performance (Dal Santo) by all accounts has put on a lot of bulk in the off season...

I would doubt many players have put on bulk apart from second and third year players. Dal looks the same to me as he has the last 3 preseasons.

Just basing that statement on SrR's observation,
http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=39942
Living up here in qld I have to go by the unbiased, quality statements of highly respected posters

Just to clarify...I said that Dal looked bigger across the shoulders.

The rest of him looked about the same....so his total body weight could be about the same.

VR looked to have beefed up..

Apart from that, my perception was that the team as a whole seemed to have slimmed down.

I have also read since by someone at the club....I think it was one of the players.... that the players had worked hard over Summer and lost kilos.

[saintsRrising]

Well so far so good in 2008...and while early days yet the work rate of the team seems to be up.

Of not too has been the strong last quarter finishes which are of particular note as it has in that last quarter been left to young and the fringe to get us over the line.

The Jone's boys strong work rate may well see him land a Round 1 berth. will be intetresting to see how he goes against the in form Crows.

[Unforgiven]

Clint will play round 1 no doubt I beleive. He brings something to the team that no one else does consistantly, and that is forward pressure, mostly resulting in free kicks. Have seen this numerous times last year and in the NAB cup. He will only improve with more game time, and I think his kicking is on the improve as well.

[The OtherThommo]

Has anybody actually twigged to the concept of "stuffing your own players"? No? Well GT had it mastered. This club was riddled with players who went into seasons without any base. GT's head down, ass up style is so out of touch. I mean, it's fine to watch X crash into massive men all the time - it's inspirational. Except he keeps getting hurt. How 'bout the application of smarts?

Well, that's what happening now - smarts. I look forward to a reduction in martyrdom, and a lift in availability.

Our previous management treated our players like the poms treated the Diggers at Gallipoli. The new management better understands how you win games.

[plugger66]

Has anybody actually twigged to the concept of "stuffing your own players"? No? Well GT had it mastered. This club was riddled with players who went into seasons without any base. GT's head down, ass up style is so out of touch. I mean, it's fine to watch X crash into massive men all the time - it's inspirational. Except he keeps getting hurt. How 'bout the application of smarts?

Well, that's what happening now - smarts. I look forward to a reduction in martyrdom, and a lift in availability.

Our previous management treated our players like the poms treated the Diggers at Gallipoli. The new management better understands how you win games.

Get over it mate.

[bigcarl]

Clint will play round 1 no doubt I beleive. He brings something to the team that no one else does consistantly, and that is forward pressure, mostly resulting in free kicks. Have seen this numerous times last year and in the NAB cup. He will only improve with more game time, and I think his kicking is on the improve as well.

i like him as a player. he is a real goer and his tackling last week was a revelation.

the only question mark i have on him as a small forward is whether he can actually convert opportunities to goals for st kilda (a la milne or schneider) ... a desirable quality in any forward i would have thought,

imo the forward line is no place for guys who don't contribute on the scoreboard, despite anything they can add in forward pressure.

if he can actually kick three or four one week then i'll be an overnight convert.

all about putting a score on the board, something we often failed to do in 2007

[Violent Stool]

Has anybody actually twigged to the concept of "stuffing your own players"? No? Well GT had it mastered. This club was riddled with players who went into seasons without any base. GT's head down, ass up style is so out of touch. I mean, it's fine to watch X crash into massive men all the time - it's inspirational. Except he keeps getting hurt. How 'bout the application of smarts?

Well, that's what happening now - smarts. I look forward to a reduction in martyrdom, and a lift in availability.

Our previous management treated our players like the poms treated the Diggers at Gallipoli. The new management better understands how you win games.

Although I'm surprised by how many people on here still obsess over the old coach, I agree with this.

However I'm still not totally sold on our new management and the thinking that we know how to win games.

Hopefully when the real stuff starts I'll be sold!!

[saintsRrising]

Well for the first half of 2008 the work ethic simply was not there.

Then after Dal and Milne were dropped there was a marked change to our players delivered workrate for the better....and we have been dramatically more successful ever since.

Notably this went missing against WC in Perth in 2008...and in our last final against the Hawks where many our our players went missing.

In 2009 so far the TEAM has lifted it's workrate to an outstanding level.

Personally I cannot wait to see how we perform in this regard against Port at AAMI, the Dogs and the Pies.

[saintsRrising]

..... Instead support Ross fully in his endeavours to have our players set, and then reach, new and higher standards for themselves about what is required to call yourself a St Kilda Player.[.../b]

.

It is pleasing to see that it has come to pass that the definition of what is required to be a St Kilda player has been redefined...and more importantly achieved....and that workrate and teamwork are the cornerstone of our success.