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saintsRrising
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Post: # 466197Post saintsRrising »

Shaggy wrote:By my count only Stokes, Ottens, Nathan Ablett and Selwood played today who came from drafts/trades 2003 onwards.

Recruitment from 2003 onwards is not the reason why Geelong won the premiership and it is not the reason why we don’t have one (but that is still no excuse for only spending $214,000 on recruitment to save a $1 million profit because it will obviously hurt us over time).

Both the Saints and Cats Boards wanted change after disappointing 2006 seasons. So after detailed football department reviews the Cats added substantial resources and personnel to their football department. We on the other hand add Kenny (lol) and swapped the rest.

And now it is time for members to swap the Board and appoint those who are interested to implement real improvements even if it costs.

As Kaos say the buck stops at the top and the Board has not implemented best practices for the football department despite all the BS about it. The Cats did (and full credit to their Board for not just talking about change but actually delivering) and they are raving about it tonight.
I agree that the Board did not act quickly enough.....and we need change for new momentum at Board level..


However Geelong did not just gain all their momentum post 2006 review..

* Player Conditioning. May 2006 Geelong's new Head Doctor started fresh from 2 years as Head Coach of a Premier League soccer Club in the UK.....and lots of other experience gain post his original stint as the Richmond Club Doc. The new Doc rebuilds their player conditioning and fitness department by end of 2006 = a lot less injuries

* Geelong run their own VFL team = a big advantage in developing players and in havinga preferred game experience for existing players being refreshed/ brough back (ie King playing 80% game time in the ruck asa lead up to the GF today)

*Recruiting....while we put total faith in Bevos oudated talent spotting techniques Geelong as per every other AFL team had swapped over to a more rigourous approach. Yes raw football talent spotting such as Bevo did was part of it....buta much more rigourous approach was being used.

The saints have only this year entered the modern age of recruiting with our new full time recruiting manager....with Bevo consulting (he can spot footy talent, but does not know how to vet players properly)

* head space. It is no coincidence in some ways that the cats in 2007 and the saints in 1997 both had their players mature mentally and deliver more...FOR BOTH teams engaged the same motivator. The same guy that advised Alves.....had helped the swans in now in the cats camp.....and joined prior to the start of this year. He is a consultant.
He was the main guy being the process of ablett, Mooney etc taking the next step in their careers (yes yes Bomber of course deserves credit to....but it was this guy that made the breakthroughs)


Geelong have been developing there players for many years... and they have sought to address known weaknesses.

The forward line was their major concern in terms of TALLS
*Mooney obtained from the Kangas... a wild boy and required to be settled down. Settle down this year he did.

*Through in Ottens after several years of patience..and building his self-confidence ( alesson thee for the saints in Fiora)

*Nathan Ablett was known to have talent, but did not want to play. Frank Costa led the charge and convinced him to try AF.. according to Costa key componenent of this was agreeing that they would faciltate Naten buying his mum a house.


All 3 are now solid contributors.


In addition in some ways the Cats 2006 was appeared worse than it was. When they realised their season was over they started early for 2007....got players fit....etc....and gaineda lower draft pick in the superdraft to boot.



So yes they have restructured their football Deaprtment...we have too....but slightly after theirs, buta whole new team put us backa bit.

Importantly our player conditioning management side was only addressed properly late in the season ( and I have heard, in addition to what was in the press, Ross was dismayed out the low standards of the Saints in this regard) with Misson only just appointed improve things further.

Football department and Player Conditioning...as well as recuiting are now vastly superior. westaway will wrongly be given credit fora much improved 2008 that these changes will deliver.

Though lets hope that Westaway will add value so that our 2009 and beyond years are much improved.


Our recruiting and player development have had several years of mismangement that Roos and co need to overcome.

Players like Mini joined us and were not developed properly...this has to change.


2008 will be better.....but we do have some major lacks that the GT era induced.

Make now mistake....the list that GT and RB were gifted was our best since the 60's....gifted by BlightLotto, Draft Looto...and the Blues cheating.

They failed to IMPROVE and devlop it....and to keep it fit. we failied to keep improving .....ina field where other teams were improving.

Yes Geelong stumbled fora year......but only fora year...and even in that year they were still doing many things right (ie see above).


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Post: # 466200Post barks4eva »

lefty wrote:Hold on Barks....

We got Mark McGough because we werent going to get anyone else.
Excuse me genuis, but THOMAS gave up a third round draft pick for McGough so how do you assert that we were not going to get anyone else?

Please do tell
lefty wrote:Brent Guerra & Cain Ackland we VERY important and GOOD in their 2004 season. If you think they were s*** in 2004, then you have no idea.
I'm not sure if Ackland was s*** in 2004 because I didn't see too many Port Adelaide Magpie games, please do enlighten me as to how good he was for them in 2004


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Post: # 466205Post stinger »

another flowering thread going over the same f****** boring sh!t that has been done to death on here.......move on ffs...footy season is over...cricket season has started...the aussies are 307.....and best news of all...port got well and truly bent over........ :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

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Post: # 466223Post kaos theory »

SR - good points, but I want to summarize the current failures that have cost our club from a footy department view point:

- Management of GT was poor. The board were unable to put in place effective measures to build & support the footy dept. Some blame goes to GT, but a lot goes to those with ultimate authority. They have failed to build revenue and establish effective investment programs where & WHEN it mattered most.

- Worst injury management practices in the competition, probably costing us a flag...

- Primative recuiting practices creates inability to build on foundation of core talented players (as you state)

- Inability to develop players on the list due to poor funding of skills coaches & skills development techniques

- After 5 yrs we have yet to resolve our training facilities and fall behind other clubs
.


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Post: # 466226Post The_Dud »

getting over all the recruiting crap, if our list this year was given the same injury run geelongs list got this year (this would include Lenny and Goose starting the season at 100%) i would bet we'd be in the exact same position as them

same thing next year, if we get a dream injury run (which is alreadly unlikely, due to Goddard's knee reco) we will be a huge chance for the flag

i know the football department has some explaining to do on the injury front, but u can't do anyhting to prevent knee reco's, broken legs, fractured skulls, and broken collar bones (and these were all to top 10 players) its just bad luck, which we seem to have alot of

basically, if we can get our players on the field, we are good enough to win a flag, which is exactly what Geelong did this year


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Post: # 466237Post saintsRrising »

kaos theory wrote:SR - good points, but I want to summarize the current failures that have cost our club from a footy department view point:

- Management of GT was poor. The board were unable to put in place effective measures to build & support the footy dept. Some blame goes to GT, but a lot goes to those with ultimate authority. They have failed to build revenue and establish effective investment programs where & WHEN it mattered most.

- Worst injury management practices in the competition, probably costing us a flag...

- Primative recuiting practices creates inability to build on foundation of core talented players (as you state)

- Inability to develop players on the list due to poor funding of skills coaches & skills development techniques

- After 5 yrs we have yet to resolve our training facilities and fall behind other clubs
.
Yes...that pretty well sums it up.

The Board (of which GT was part) put their faith in the wrong man.

The Board did do well in a number of areas & indeed superbly well in some, but left the wrong man in the key job football for too long....and also failed to realise that more needed to be done football wise.

Gt got to live every boys dream...and got to play at being the saints coach...troble is that has shattered the dreams of many others....and yes RB as the Pres ahs to be accountable for this.

Everyone makes mistakes....but you do well well you can realise your mistakes early....and rectify them. RB and the Board have acted too slowly.


Westawy is a very fortunate man...he has hard work to do let there be no doubt......but RB's parting gift to him is that the Footbal and conditioning side of things has been put in shape and is going in the right direction.

Lets hope that he does not stuff it up...he hasa rare opportunity and the Footygods are smiling on him.


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Post: # 466241Post Zippy »

Shaggy wrote:By my count only Stokes, Ottens, Nathan Ablett and Selwood played today who came from drafts/trades 2003 onwards.

Recruitment from 2003 onwards is not the reason why Geelong won the premiership and it is not the reason why we don’t have one (but that is still no excuse for only spending $214,000 on recruitment to save a $1 million profit because it will obviously hurt us over time).

Both the Saints and Cats Boards wanted change after disappointing 2006 seasons. So after detailed football department reviews the Cats added substantial resources and personnel to their football department. We on the other hand add Kenny (lol) and swapped the rest.

And now it is time for members to swap the Board and appoint those who are interested to implement real improvements even if it costs.

As Kaos say the buck stops at the top and the Board has not implemented best practices for the football department despite all the BS about it. The Cats did (and full credit to their Board for not just talking about change but actually delivering) and they are raving about it tonight.
Couldn't agree more - what geelong did is an example of good managemnt. Short-sighted cost-cutting is bad management.


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Post: # 466248Post SteveStevens66 »

[quote="barks4eva"]

IMHO granting Thomas the role of coach in the first place is ultimately the biggest rod for Butterss back

Absolutely the core of the issue. The two of them only ever operated out of self-interest and together, concocted a corrupt process to put GT in place.

Even GT has admitted the process was fixed. Or does he have it wrong as well?


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Post: # 466263Post kaos theory »

getting over all the recruiting crap, if our list this year was given the same injury run geelongs list got this year (this would include Lenny and Goose starting the season at 100%) i would bet we'd be in the exact same position as them
And if my uncle was a woman, she would be my aunty. :roll:

That is the point, the acceptance of 'IF'...well, reality doesn't care about 'if'.......the reason why we had such a poor record of injuries was because of the poor decision-making & negligence in the way the whole footy dept. has been run.


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Post: # 466265Post plugger66 »

The_Dud wrote:getting over all the recruiting crap, if our list this year was given the same injury run geelongs list got this year (this would include Lenny and Goose starting the season at 100%) i would bet we'd be in the exact same position as them

same thing next year, if we get a dream injury run (which is alreadly unlikely, due to Goddard's knee reco) we will be a huge chance for the flag

i know the football department has some explaining to do on the injury front, but u can't do anyhting to prevent knee reco's, broken legs, fractured skulls, and broken collar bones (and these were all to top 10 players) its just bad luck, which we seem to have alot of

basically, if we can get our players on the field, we are good enough to win a flag, which is exactly what Geelong did this year
No doubt your right about that. Our record shows when we dont have injuries we usually win the flag. And when we win the flag it is usually by 119 points.


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Post: # 466314Post Liam_G »

Don't overlook the fact that THEY finished in the same position last year as we have this year. There is still hope people.


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Post: # 466325Post saintsRrising »

Zippy wrote:
[Couldn't agree more - what geelong did is an example of good managemnt. Short-sighted cost-cutting is bad management.
agree on good management.

However are you sure about the cost cutting part??

When Frank took over the Cats owed I think about $8million...and from memory they were very tight with money at first too....until the ship was righted. Frank and the CEO cook worked long an hard to turn the club around finacially and put it na sound footing.

When Frank hire Bomber it was agreed that it was an 8 year plan to win a flag with the ptimum period to be in 2007/2008....with a chance of snagging one earlier.

Turns out that they were spot on.


Frank had faith in Bomber.....but still read him the riot act when Bomber was straying. Bomber did not like it but ACCEPTED the changes.

RB had faith in GT too......but when the Board started to question what GT was doing GT refused advice and in fact demanded more control (ie he demanded and got responisbily for player conditioning fitness management and STUFFED it up even worse). The Board suggesting hiringa Football manger...but GT refused.
In the end the Board hired outside consultants to review whata MODERN football Department should be. GT maintains that HIS way was best...and this held us back. GT signed his own death warrant by his own actions, pig headnesses, lust for control and lack of ability. That Gt owed RB money and refused to pay it back was only an unfortunate distraction and not the cause.




Now some rail against RB for making such a loan....but for example Judd was given a good deal on an appartment...and whichever club he joins will no doubt give Judd saome "added" benefits. RB thought at that time that GT was what the club needed....and no doubt the loan was part of what was required to keep GT "happy".


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Post: # 466328Post Saints Premiers 2008 »

plugger66 wrote:
The_Dud wrote:getting over all the recruiting crap, if our list this year was given the same injury run geelongs list got this year (this would include Lenny and Goose starting the season at 100%) i would bet we'd be in the exact same position as them

same thing next year, if we get a dream injury run (which is alreadly unlikely, due to Goddard's knee reco) we will be a huge chance for the flag

i know the football department has some explaining to do on the injury front, but u can't do anyhting to prevent knee reco's, broken legs, fractured skulls, and broken collar bones (and these were all to top 10 players) its just bad luck, which we seem to have alot of

basically, if we can get our players on the field, we are good enough to win a flag, which is exactly what Geelong did this year
No doubt your right about that. Our record shows when we dont have injuries we usually win the flag. And when we win the flag it is usually by 119 points.
i dont think that goddard will have a major bearing on our performance if the rest are all at 100% or close to it...

if he does then we are in major, major trouble


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Post: # 833107Post dcstkfc »

I hope we put this behind us tomorrow


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