RTB must go

[CURLY]

we are. Yet our performances on Saturday and against Sydney a couple of weeks ago, were better than any last year. Progress isn't necessarily measured on W/L.

Wasn't it Ross who said last year "the ladder doesn't lie" regarding our W/L?

Can't have two different stories just to suit the narrative.

It's no coincidence we have started to improve after getting some more talent into the side, which has come in the form of injured players returning and established players returning to foem and some young players going up a level.

Skills pays the bills.

We are still short of depth on talent, we are vulnerable to injuries still.

That is the only reason we are 14th.

Our recruiting has had a few good years, need that to continue for a few more.

Talent talent talent wins flags.

Most clubs are vulnerable to injury.

[The Fireman]

Yeah, so if we get plenty of talent and we don’t have injuries we will win more games

[Vortex]

we are. Yet our performances on Saturday and against Sydney a couple of weeks ago, were better than any last year. Progress isn't necessarily measured on W/L.

Wasn't it Ross who said last year "the ladder doesn't lie" regarding our W/L?

Can't have two different stories just to suit the narrative.

It's no coincidence we have started to improve after getting some more talent into the side, which has come in the form of injured players returning and established players returning to foem and some young players going up a level.

Skills pays the bills.

We are still short of depth on talent, we are vulnerable to injuries still.

That is the only reason we are 14th.

Our recruiting has had a few good years, need that to continue for a few more.

Talent talent talent wins flags.

Most clubs are vulnerable to injury.

Yep...but clubs with shallow depth even more so.

Most flag coaches say consistently you need to bat about 25 deep of AFL capable, strong, conditioned bodies capable of standing in the last 2 mins of a GF to be.a contender.

How many are we short of to contend?

My guess at this point in time is about 8 ish and/or about 3 to 4 years away.

[CURLY]

we are. Yet our performances on Saturday and against Sydney a couple of weeks ago, were better than any last year. Progress isn't necessarily measured on W/L.

Wasn't it Ross who said last year "the ladder doesn't lie" regarding our W/L?

Can't have two different stories just to suit the narrative.

It's no coincidence we have started to improve after getting some more talent into the side, which has come in the form of injured players returning and established players returning to foem and some young players going up a level.

Skills pays the bills.

We are still short of depth on talent, we are vulnerable to injuries still.

That is the only reason we are 14th.

Our recruiting has had a few good years, need that to continue for a few more.

Talent talent talent wins flags.

I don't think you can put a number on it. Look at Collingwood a couple of injuries this season and they are cactus.

Most clubs are vulnerable to injury.

Yep...but clubs with shallow depth even more so.

Most flag coaches say consistently you need to bat about 25 deep of AFL capable, strong, conditioned bodies capable of standing in the last 2 mins of a GF to be.a contender.

How many are we short of to contend?

My guess at this point in time is about 8 ish and/or about 3 to 4 years away.

[perfectionist]

The first thing that you need to do to get a flag team is the get the best backline. Then you need to get one the best midfields. Then you get forwards who can mark and kick straight on the day that matters. Then you need to get a lot of luck - like scoring goals when the ball hits the post.

[samoht]

Then you get forwards who can mark and kick straight on the day that matters. Then you need to get a lot of luck - like scoring goals when the ball hits the post.

But we always had those mobile marking forwards and mutiple targets in Membrey, Owens, Sharman and Caminiti.
RTB preferred that we focus on kicking it to a predictable and stationary tall target, instead.

Week after week.

It took King's injury for him to "discover" that we had all these riches and mobile marking options all along ... he could not see what was staring him in the face.

A wasted opportunity.... we probably would be a top 4 team right now, under a better coach ... a more visionary coach ( even if you or I were coaching, quite frankly).

He has such a blinkered approach. He has definitely not made the most of the talent at his disposal... especially up forward.

Now, he has no choice but to, ironically ... and we are finally kicking consistently higher scores.

He was cornered into it (by King's absence)... call it serendipity.

Next year, we could become the highest scoring team, with Henry, Phillipou and Wison (as they develop and start gelling) adding to our forward potency.
Other coaches would/should be envious ... we haven't appreciated or best utilised what we have.

[D.B.Cooper]

Then you get forwards who can mark and kick straight on the day that matters. Then you need to get a lot of luck - like scoring goals when the ball hits the post.

But we always had those mobile marking forwards and mutiple targets in Membrey, Owens, Sharman and Caminiti.
RTB preferred that we focus on kicking it to a predictable and stationary tall target, instead.

Week after week.

It took King's injury for him to "discover" that we had all these riches and mobile marking options all along ... he could not see what was staring him in the face.

A wasted opportunity.... we probably would be a top 4 team right now, under a better coach ... a more visionary coach ( even if you or I were coaching, quite frankly).

He has such a blinkered approach. He has definitely not made the most of the talent at his disposal... especially up forward.

Now, he has no choice but to, ironically ... and we are finally kicking consistently higher scores.

He was cornered into it (by King's absence)... call it serendipity.

Next year, we could become the highest scoring team, with Henry, Phillipou and Wison (as they develop and start gelling) adding to our forward potency.
Other coaches would be envious ... we haven't appreciated or best utilised what we have.

So we have a top 4 list, would be if you were coaching, we are just held back by the coach.

I didn't see many of the "so called" industry experts rating our list top 4 at any stage pre-season.

I wonder if we could coax Grant Thomas back to coach us?

[samoht]

No, I don't like turning over coaches.
There's room for improvement, let's be honest... and let's not lionise him, at least.

One way or the other, our forward line is not as dysfunctional.

He's finally seen the light, even if he's been forced to (by circumstances). It's all the same.

All good, at the end.
He's a keeper.

Looking forward to us kicking big scores next year, on a regular basis, with a multi-pronged approach, using 3-4 mobile forward marking options, as our mainstay, with Henry, Phillipou, Wison, etc.piling on the forward pressure and kicking goals, themselves.

Also, looking forward to those so called experts eating their words next year.

[B.M]

Coaches

As good as the list they coach!

Maybe a good coach can maximise the talent on his list given no injuries

But no coach can turn s*** into strawberry jam

[takeaway]

Then you get forwards who can mark and kick straight on the day that matters. Then you need to get a lot of luck - like scoring goals when the ball hits the post.

But we always had those mobile marking forwards and mutiple targets in Membrey, Owens, Sharman and Caminiti.
RTB preferred that we focus on kicking it to a predictable and stationary tall target, instead.

Week after week.

It took King's injury for him to "discover" that we had all these riches and mobile marking options all along ... he could not see what was staring him in the face.

A wasted opportunity.... we probably would be a top 4 team right now, under a better coach ... a more visionary coach ( even if you or I were coaching, quite frankly).

He has such a blinkered approach. He has definitely not made the most of the talent at his disposal... especially up forward.

Now, he has no choice but to, ironically ... and we are finally kicking consistently higher scores.

He was cornered into it (by King's absence)... call it serendipity.

Next year, we could become the highest scoring team, with Henry, Phillipou and Wison (as they develop and start gelling) adding to our forward potency.
Other coaches would/should be envious ... we haven't appreciated or best utilised what we have.

I think you are behind the times. We kicked some pretty good scores early last year without King, using a multi pronged attack, Caminiti & co, even the super decoy Cordy. The coaches didn't need to "discover" the options we have. They are also aware that we will not be a top 4 team unless we have King in form and getting better delivery. We still need to sort that out, kicking too often to King with 2 on him, we need to use Sharman & co more often, even King as a sort of decoy.

Sharman will get more attention, Caminiti can be inconsistent, and this year so can Membrey. We need King in form to really challenge, but also need to use the other forward options more effectively.

[Devilhead]

Every possibility that an injury free King could have kicked 6+ against Essendon and we all would be lauding him

Sharman, Hammer & Membrey aren't going to available for every game just as King isn't

We have 4 very good tall to medium marking forwards .... just need to find a way to the get the best out of all of them when they are playing

[samoht]

In my book, and from what we're seeing ...

Multiple, mobile, marking options beats focussing on one stationary tall target in the hope that they might have a good day, every now and again.

It stretches defences every week.

Owens, Membery, Caminiti, Sharman ... spread it around. Choose whoever leads for you and breaks out into clear space.

If you want to kick goals consistently and cause opposition defences problems every week - that's the way to go.

Stop being predictable (I wouldn't mind seeing King tried in defence for this reason - and I don't think we need King "to be in form" for us to kick goals consistently, we are doing just fine).

Share it around.

No room for prima donnas, every one is a valued team member, and equal.

I've posted enough on this ... let's see what happens, now.

[SAINT-LEE]

I suppose some people need a messiah to believe in

Come to RTB and suckle on the teets of his wisdom [fanboy]

[The Fireman]

I suppose some people need a messiah to believe in

Come to RTB and suckle on the teets of his wisdom [fanboy]

[freely]

If you have a lot of injuries and sufficient depth you become very unpredictable so get a lot more scoring chances. We need to build that unpredictability into the game plan instead of having to wait for a run of 'bad' luck.

[spert]

Coaches

As good as the list they coach!

Maybe a good coach can maximise the talent on his list given no injuries

But no coach can turn s*** into strawberry jam

So no point in getting rid of Ratten I guess- the club could have saved a bit of money and just got better players.

[B.M]

I’d back a great team with a s*** coach over a s*** team with a great coach anyday

[Yorkeys]

Ross is assembling a good squad and has them playing well. As well as the team has gone for years. So why the negativity about Ross? A legacy grudge, personality thing? Prefer to pontificate on failure, which is easy?
Success? You can't handle success!

[Scollop]

Ross is assembling a good squad and has them playing well. As well as the team has gone for years. So why the negativity about Ross? A legacy grudge, personality thing? Prefer to pontificate on failure, which is easy?
Success? You can't handle success!

The op was a sheet-stir. Baiting

Didn't realise Ross is head of list management and recruitment as well. Amazing

[CURLY]

If you have a lot of injuries and sufficient depth you become very unpredictable so get a lot more scoring chances. We need to build that unpredictability into the game plan instead of having to wait for a run of 'bad' luck.

I think you might get two three games at most of being unpredictable and sneak a couple of wins maybe.

[Saints58]

we are. Yet our performances on Saturday and against Sydney a couple of weeks ago, were better than any last year. Progress isn't necessarily measured on W/L.

Wasn't it Ross who said last year "the ladder doesn't lie" regarding our W/L?

Can't have two different stories just to suit the narrative.

It's no coincidence we have started to improve after getting some more talent into the side, which has come in the form of injured players returning and established players returning to foem and some young players going up a level.

Skills pays the bills.

We are still short of depth on talent, we are vulnerable to injuries still.

That is the only reason we are 14th.

Our recruiting has had a few good years, need that to continue for a few more.

Talent talent talent wins flags.

Most clubs are vulnerable to injury.








Yes but we had some key guys with injury's and suspensions for a large portion of the season and history says if you have a lot of your best 22 out its a struggle.
Especially with not much depth which is now being rectified but that takes time and if we get 2 first rounders this year that will really help.
Give RTB till the end of his contract and then judge I have confidence in our recruiting and development that we will improve by next season lets hope.

[The_Dud]

Interesting to look at the Ross - King dilemma...

The last 2 seasons:

WITH King
10-12 (winning % of 45.5)
Points for per game = 75.1
Points against per game = 75.7

WITHOUT King
11-10 (winning % of 52.4)
Points for per game = 77.4
Points against per game = 71.6


So that data says that without King we win more and both our offense and defense is better... make of that what you will.

IMO this is not necessarily a King problem, its a Ross + King problem. Ross doesn't know how to make the most of King, that kind of player doesn't fit into his system. That's why I think the idea of trading King while he's still at peak value isn't an idea that should be so quickly dismissed.

FWIW I would rather we figure out how to use King, but I have no confidence of that so it could backfire and then we're left holding the bag.

[Otiman]

I'd say those stats are inconclusive/not statistically significant, and I'm a huge believer in stats.

Better to look at scoring shots per I50 to get a better grasp of the situation.

[The_Dud]

I'd say those stats are inconclusive/not statistically significant, and I'm a huge believer in stats.

Better to look at scoring shots per I50 to get a better grasp of the situation.

This season we score every 2.44 I50 with King and every 2.33 I50 without King, so again, slightly better when he's out of the team.

I would expect to see a notable positive difference across 43 games when you're talking about a supposed $1M+ marquee player, and the fact there's not even a slight one is worrying.

[CURLY]

I'd say those stats are inconclusive/not statistically significant, and I'm a huge believer in stats.

Better to look at scoring shots per I50 to get a better grasp of the situation.

This season we score every 2.44 I50 with King and every 2.33 I50 without King, so again, slightly better when he's out of the team.

I would expect to see a notable positive difference across 43 games when you're talking about a supposed $1M+ marquee player, and the fact there's not even a slight one is worrying.

Who did we play with him and does this include when he went off injured?