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King
Wanganeen-Milera
Windhager
Owens
Higgins
Clark
Coffield
Byrnes
Connolly
Sharman
All these guys can get better and most likey will
Who can we depend on for consistent output?
Marshall
Steele
Crouch
Ross
Webster
Wilkie
Howard (despite the naysayers)
Sinclair
Battle
Gresham
Hill (despite the naysayers)
Membrey
The inconsistent and the not-quite-there
Billings
Long
Paton
Highmore
Jones
Hayes
Little or no value going forward
Wood
Joyce
Leinert
Done
Geary
Hannebery
Kent
Campbell
The unknown and the unlikely
Adams
Bytel
Allison
Peris
All an opinion business but couple comments to this list:
- Wood - important role player int his team. I believe we have too many who run one way hard only. While he will never rack up 20 i think structurally he is important to us the same way McKenzie is.
- Jones - a point of difference in our midfield which is one paced and a little one dimensional ( hard in and under)
- Campbell needed as a back up ruck as Heath at least 12 months away
- Bytel to me in group 1 improvement. Showed enough last year , this year a write off.
- Peris and Adams unknown but way too early for unlikely
- Harsh on Billings ( whipping boy) and Paton after missing a year to me is improvement.
Otherwise not too bad.
Needs:
- tall defender
- classy ball user
Banger9798 wrote: ↑Tue 12 Jul 2022 6:50pm
Players want to come to the club....Amon for instance, possibly DeGoey or Taranto. A few years ago we couldn't attract anyone.
Firstly I respect your optimism, it is easy to be overly negative on the back of poor performance.
More importantly, am I reading this correctly?
Has Amon stated he wants to come to the Saints?
If so, I’d be very happy with Karl as a FA.
There's only one rule in the jungle! When the LYON's hungry, he eats!
Its unknown and unlikely, so Adams, Peris, and Bytel are the unknown. Allison is the unlikely. From what I've seen of Adams, he could be a player, but he's only payed three games
I forgot Butler (inconsistent) and McKenzie (dependable)
Basically, we're not where we want to be regarding the list. We're a middle of the ladder team with some scope for improvement. We're not top 4 and not top 6 for talent. If we finish between 7 and 10 this year, that will be a par.
Now, it seems some people expect Ratten to get us into the top four with this list and they're frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog because it ain't happening. Well, it ain't happening. Live with the reality of where this playing list is at.
The recruiters and the list manager have a job to do to kick us a few rungs up the ladder with their decisions.
Huge off-season, this one. We can't afford to get it wrong.
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Wed 13 Jul 2022 1:10pm
Basically, we're not where we want to be regarding the list. We're a middle of the ladder team with some scope for improvement. We're not top 4 and not top 6 for talent. If we finish between 7 and 10 this year, that will be a par.
Now, it seems some people expect Ratten to get us into the top four with this list and they're frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog because it ain't happening. Well, it ain't happening. Live with the reality of where this playing list is at.
The recruiters and the list manager have a job to do to kick us a few rungs up the ladder with their decisions.
Huge off-season, this one. We can't afford to get it wrong.
Agree with the generl assessment of our list; think we have shown we have the ability to get in the 8 so either 9th or 10th, or heaven forbid lower, is a fail I think.
The concern for me is the widely fluctuating levels of form and effort, especially since the bye.
We are all used to losing, but the way they have turned their toes up against Essendon, Sydney and Freo second half is bewildering. On that form they are a bottom 4 side and I can't reconcile the difference between the best and worst we have seen. Puzzling.
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Wed 13 Jul 2022 1:02pm
Sharman has played senior football and has shown genuine promise
He kicked a few goals in dead rubber games against teams that were happy to give him space to run and jump at the ball in straight lines and conceded a few cheapies in the interest of shutting us down as a team. If you don't believe me then go and watch the replays in the games where the legend of Sharman began.
In the games he played when the heat was on he looked completely out of his depth. Is very slow and and has the turning circle of the titanic so his one trick is no good in the modern two way running game. Gets found out defensively when playing away from the goal square.
Has so much work to do so not sure he has genuine promise at this stage.
Well, he showed he knows where to lead and he can take a grab and kick straight for goal. That's something to work with. Lacks physicality and intensity (which is what they want to drum into him, I suppose), but has the talent base, in my opinion
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Wed 13 Jul 2022 5:59pm
Well, he showed he knows where to lead and he can take a grab and kick straight for goal. That's something to work with. Lacks physicality and intensity (which is what they want to drum into him, I suppose), but has the talent base, in my opinion
You just have to be realistic about a lot of players who win the lotto to get a spot on an AFL list, statistics of those who didn't make it are very high compared with the ones who do. Take Windy and NWM for example, to me they are a better definition of "showed some promise", but for all we know Windy could be an exact replica of Dunstan and NWM could be an exact replica of Trent Dennis-Lane. It will take a few more years to know if they are flag type players.
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Wed 13 Jul 2022 5:59pm
Well, he showed he knows where to lead and he can take a grab and kick straight for goal. That's something to work with. Lacks physicality and intensity (which is what they want to drum into him, I suppose), but has the talent base, in my opinion
You just have to be realistic about a lot of players who win the lotto to get a spot on an AFL list, statistics of those who didn't make it are very high compared with the ones who do. Take Windy and NWM for example, to me they are a better definition of "showed some promise", but for all we know Windy could be an exact replica of Dunstan and NWM could be an exact replica of Trent Dennis-Lane. It will take a few more years to know if they are flag type players.
Ridiculous call. You can already see both Windy and NWM have traits that when they develop will make them excellent AFL footballers.
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Wed 13 Jul 2022 5:59pm
Well, he showed he knows where to lead and he can take a grab and kick straight for goal. That's something to work with. Lacks physicality and intensity (which is what they want to drum into him, I suppose), but has the talent base, in my opinion
You just have to be realistic about a lot of players who win the lotto to get a spot on an AFL list, statistics of those who didn't make it are very high compared with the ones who do. Take Windy and NWM for example, to me they are a better definition of "showed some promise", but for all we know Windy could be an exact replica of Dunstan and NWM could be an exact replica of Trent Dennis-Lane. It will take a few more years to know if they are flag type players.
Ridiculous call. You can already see both Windy and NWM have traits that when they develop will make them excellent AFL footballers.
Not a ridiculous call at all, it's an evidence based call. Totally agree Windy and NWM have shown "potential" but so many players do and then they platue and become very average AFL players. But there is a difference between a very average AFL player and Flag type player, a massive difference.
Luke Dunstan is a perfect example, in his first year many club officials and supporters thought he was our next Lenny and even said he was our next Captain, even gave him the famous number 7. So as I say, how do we know how far Windy and NWM will go in terms of becoming flag players? Only time will sought these questions out.
which is brave
... and 'team' luvs that stuff when it works
and it can go all the way ... tick
(although the evidence of geelong back in the day says otherwise)
'n it's worth watching
so it must be worth playing
except for
needed ... structured defensive mindset of the robotic runner
quite the divide
Ratts went off message to early i thought
with his (their)
... we have to learn how to play slow
: we need tempo footy in our kitbag
divide got wider
somewhere in the
it's a game / be a robot paradigm
is our rabbithole
the : kick 30 or bring Ross back dilemma
the very st kilda paradox of partyboys roboboys or butterboys
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
It's true a lot of players don't progress beyond their early promising signs. Yet there are others who end up surprising us, like Sinclair and Marshall.
The thing with us is that it's been a long time since we've had an obvious superstar in the making.
We're definitely a work in progress. If we don't get the next 18 months right (recruiting/trading/FA) we could be in no man's land for a while
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Wed 13 Jul 2022 5:59pm
Well, he showed he knows where to lead and he can take a grab and kick straight for goal. That's something to work with. Lacks physicality and intensity (which is what they want to drum into him, I suppose), but has the talent base, in my opinion
You just have to be realistic about a lot of players who win the lotto to get a spot on an AFL list, statistics of those who didn't make it are very high compared with the ones who do. Take Windy and NWM for example, to me they are a better definition of "showed some promise", but for all we know Windy could be an exact replica of Dunstan and NWM could be an exact replica of Trent Dennis-Lane. It will take a few more years to know if they are flag type players.
Ridiculous call. You can already see both Windy and NWM have traits that when they develop will make them excellent AFL footballers.
Not a ridiculous call at all, it's an evidence based call. Totally agree Windy and NWM have shown "potential" but so many players do and then they platue and become very average AFL players. But there is a difference between a very average AFL player and Flag type player, a massive difference.
Luke Dunstan is a perfect example, in his first year many club officials and supporters thought he was our next Lenny and even said he was our next Captain, even gave him the famous number 7. So as I say, how do we know how far Windy and NWM will go in terms of becoming flag players? Only time will sought these questions out.
Dunstan always had defficencies that couldn't be improved on. Pace being the obvious one.
As I understand there was no real reason to send Acres to Fremantle other than a return to his home State may see him fulfill the potential he most obviously had - so in his best interests family wise and career wise.
Dunstan is still on an AFL List, as insurance and getting the occasional game, circumstances permitting so not a first 22 selection at the 2021 Premiers and 2022 finalists.
Acres is having the breakout season he always promised (IMO) for a 2022 finalist (who beat Geelong at Geelong, so not at all shabby)
As is McCartin, which is a stellar achievement given what he has endured in reaching just 50 AFL games.
But he was a Number 1 Draft Pick, for a reason which is now becoming obvious to the doubters.
Sometimes you win them (Membrey, Steele, Marshall et al) and sometimes you lose them
And just to answer my own question, because no-one else has:-
(games at Season start)
Wilkie (63) Howard (85) Paton (35)
Clark (60) Battle (56) Coffield (52)
Hill (190) Steele (119) Wanganeen- Milera (0)
Billings (144) Marshall (65) Higgins (62)
Membrey (131) King (38) Gresham (95)
Ryder (269) Crouch (113) Sinclair (119)
Owens (0) Jones (119) Windhager (0) McKenzie (61)
Long (60)
These sides, to me, identify what the Club needs to work on, by recruiting, Drafting and (now with the focus on post Rattan) developing.
We lack experience, we lack good tall (KPP and Ruck noting Ryder is 34) resources and we lack "star power" out of the centre square
There are development options across some of these areas, others not so much.
As always, the side is a work in progress and, with good decisions and some luck, which never goes astray, we are hopefully just a couple of years off becoming a force to be reckoned on.
Courtesy also of players pushing to and past 100 games, so becoming experienced.
Given our recent history, that is not a bad outcome.
Yorkeys wrote: ↑Tue 12 Jul 2022 5:15pm
Can Brett be hard-nosed, make hard decisions, develop young players?
How do you rate him in regard to Max King's use and development.
Was Brett extended because the players and coaches are comfortable with him or his ability to make them uncomfortable when we play crap.
Good questions I’d add 1
Was Brett extended because the CEO/Prez are comfortable with him or for his ability to respond in an articulate , candid manner, pulling no punches with poor effort after after a demoralising loss ?
Killa wrote: ↑Thu 14 Jul 2022 10:56pm
If anyone thinks the Coach does not respond to unacceptable effort and execution they are badly misinformed
The communication is calm and reasoned
Think we’ve done the calm and reasoned for a while ….we are picking and choosing when to give effort…that’s not working
An ability to give them a strong bake wouldn’t hurt on occasion ….has worked for Premiership coaches in recent years….I don’t think Clarkson is warm and cuddly after unacceptable effort …Scott ? Longmire?
Sometimes it’s not about the bake…it’s about being genuine when you demand standards need to be maintained
