The players played for the coach

[Teflon]

I don’t get this

Is the implication that they didn’t play for the coach last week?

What I’m reading is essentially, psychologically driven or otherwise they brought an effort in this week that wasn’t there before.

Is that it or have I missed something

I mean a month ago… I expected to win this game outright and was confident that we would.
Disappointed that we lost to Brisbane but an acceptable loss in the circumstances and last week was a stinker.

Oh you miss a lot, it could be explained to you but when you are anchored to false narratives with a stubborn mindset it becomes a pointless conversation. Just sad that you can't find a positive for gutsy win.

OR

He sees through your “ra ra BS” and doesn’t agree with it you mean ???
You’re not very good when others disagree with you I note…could be a childhood thing ..
Do school us all oh great Yoda ….we can’t wait !

It's really sad watching you have a meltdown like this Teffers, I told you brother, they will lose again so don't write them off yet.

Ahh Vort …I do like your fascination with me (and apologies if I hurt your soft feelings along the way ..) but you’re going to have to do better than lame “brother” lines if you want to land a blow….been around longer than that
I know we’ll have another loss
I know where we are at - good win last night and all
You’re problem is going to come when we do lose and your whipping boy Sharman isn’t in the side….
What then:
“Players stopped playing for the coach”??
LMAO

I know you know where we are at, it's sack the board, sack the coach, sack the football department, sack the recruiters, start again...is that it brother.

Amen “brother”
What are you a bikie? Watch one to many episodes on Sons of Anarchy ????
Anyhoo I personally hope the club don’t sack Ratts - I like him
What I want them to do is not sign him till we see how the team performs over the backend of the season
Besides, based off 1 game and your thinking… it’s clear the players are playing for him and that’s ALL we need to win a flag !!
Yay!

[meher baba]

Teflon. I am a long way from thinking that the club and the coach are always right. But I resolutely refuse to subscribe to the “grass is always greener” nonsense that you and too many other fans subscribe to: if we could just get a new coach, new management, cunning new game plan, and drop our experienced players for some VFL regulars few of us have even seen play, etc. I just don’t get it: it all seems delusional to me.

[bangaulegend]

It was a gritty effort & a gutsy win this week for sure , but that doesn't excuse the absolute rubbish they dished up against Essendon & Sydney. Lets wait & see how we go in the next few weeks before we start patting ourselves on the back.

[Teflon]

It was a gritty effort & a gutsy win this week for sure , but that doesn't excuse the absolute rubbish they dished up against Essendon & Sydney. Lets wait & see how we go in the next few weeks before we start patting ourselves on the back.

I agree that’s all I’m saying
It’s kinda sad after a win peoplecfeel “vindicated” to cone out attacking others who have a different view on where the club is at to them
Ah well each to their own I guess
I’ll just concentrate on staying positive and realistic

[Teflon]

Teflon. I am a long way from thinking that the club and the coach are always right. But I resolutely refuse to subscribe to the “grass is always greener” nonsense that you and too many other fans subscribe to: if we could just get a new coach, new management, cunning new game plan, and drop our experienced players for some VFL regulars few of us have even seen play, etc. I just don’t get it: it all seems delusional to me.

Ok fair call
Your view is that the coach is the right one I can respect that
What I can’t respect is a club re-signing him way too early without looking at a fuller picture of his performance particularly against benchmark sides later in the year
If we don’t make finals imo he should go
I’m not interested in spending another 6 years like Richo to find out we can’t fix our bomb into 50 game plan
IF he gets us to finals (after being 8-3 might I add) and we are competitive then yep 2 years
But don’t treat members like idiots - it would be inexcusable IF the deal was already done. Incompetence even and I don’t need a “grass is greener” attitude to know that this type of attitude can’t be tolerated

[Vortex]

I don’t get this

Is the implication that they didn’t play for the coach last week?

What I’m reading is essentially, psychologically driven or otherwise they brought an effort in this week that wasn’t there before.

Is that it or have I missed something

I mean a month ago… I expected to win this game outright and was confident that we would.
Disappointed that we lost to Brisbane but an acceptable loss in the circumstances and last week was a stinker.

Oh you miss a lot, it could be explained to you but when you are anchored to false narratives with a stubborn mindset it becomes a pointless conversation. Just sad that you can't find a positive for gutsy win.

With all due respect Vortex, I have not been particularly vocal about Rats one way or the other nor have i been anchored into a view.

I was disappointed with how the Sharman situation played out but I haven’t called for anyone to be sacked, or Clarko to be called etc

I would say if anything that you’re more anchored into a view because you’re letting selective performances inform your opinion. I merely asked a question about the OP narrative about the players playing for the coach…

Personally I think that’s a false narrative and hope it to be so.

I assume that this week, the club was simply better prepared to execute the plan… heck maybe the team was more balanced or the players that came in were more vital. Whatever.

If it was a question of effort however, that to me would be a worrying sign.

I'd like to think I'm objective as one can be as a supporter from the cheap seats and so I'm not thinking last nights victory is anything more than a gutsy win that can be enjoyed until next weeks game. I also think it's possible we will now struggle again to find wins due to the players we lost last night because unfortunately we aren't blessed with depth, especially to cover players such as Howard, that's a massive loss.

It's so damn frustrating too because last nights team was arguably the strongest team we could cobble together and I have been saying since the pre season we need a lot of luck with injuries if we are any chance of making the 8.

All parts of the club look like they are being run really well with only the core of the list short of a full compliment capable of becoming a sustainable top 4 side which could still take 2 to 3 years to achieve. In the meantime we should see this side play periods of really good footy until the sum of all parts click and we might be able to go all the way.

This infantile hysteria over Sharman is bat shyte crazy, the kid got on the end of a few goals in his first few games but clearly is way of the pace presently and because we desperately need an extra tall in the forward line some supporters are convinced he should be an automatic selection on that basis because it is somehow best for his development. That's just nuts and Sharman would would have been monstered last night and how is that any good for his development.

[The Fireman]

I’m not sure who they played for but I did notice right from the first bounce they seemed switched on as opposed to the last couple of games

[The Fireman]

I’m not sure who they played for but I did notice right from the first bounce they seemed switched on as opposed to the last couple of games

[Teflon]

I’m not sure who they played for but I did notice right from the first bounce they seemed switched on as opposed to the last couple of games

Spot on Firey so it begs the question:
Why do you need 3 pathetic losses and a media lashing before you get a 4 quarter response??

I suspect, as good as last nights win was, with some here clearly ready to run off and release a 1 game winning streak DVD box-set, that this approach is not sustainable.

It was still a great effort but there are more holes in this game plan under pressure than Swiss cheese and despite done now trotting out the club line of “gee we’ve over achieved cause this list is ordinary” I don’t subscribe to that crap
This list should beat a lowly Bombers - not lose by 6 goals and it certainly should kick more than 2 goals in a half against Swans …it was 8-3..
That tells me something is not right with our system abd that’s on the coach
Anyway, let’s see if our new found game plan stacks up over the next few weeks before we go signing anyone is what I hope for.

[saynta]

I’m not sure who they played for but I did notice right from the first bounce they seemed switched on as opposed to the last couple of games

Spot on Firey so it begs the question:
Why do you need 3 pathetic losses and a media lashing before you get a 4 quarter response??

I suspect, as good as last nights win was, with some here clearly ready to run off and release a 1 game winning streak DVD box-set, that this approach is not sustainable.

It was still a great effort but there are more holes in this game plan under pressure than Swiss cheese and despite done now trotting out the club line of “gee we’ve over achieved cause this list is ordinary” I don’t subscribe to that crap
This list should beat a lowly Bombers - not lose by 6 goals and it certainly should kick more than 2 goals in a half against Swans …it was 8-3..
That tells me something is not right with our system abd that’s on the coach
Anyway, let’s see if our new found game plan stacks up over the next few weeks before we go signing anyone is what I hope for.

Gee, got a news flash for you.

[skeptic]

This infantile hysteria over Sharman is bat shyte crazy, the kid got on the end of a few goals in his first few games but clearly is way of the pace presently and because we desperately need an extra tall in the forward line some supporters are convinced he should be an automatic selection on that basis because it is somehow best for his development. That's just nuts and Sharman would would have been monstered last night and how is that any good for his development.

With all due respect, I have read few if any suggestions at all making the issue out as you have.

The challenge is the absurdity of the extremes.


Again the answer is in the middle.

Coops finished last year as a promising up and coming forward, no more or less.
Many forumites like myself wanted to see him get the opportunity to build on that.

Not just a one off game… but a run at it that includes patches of time when the team is playing well.

NWM, Windy and other more experienced guys like Butler, Long etc have got and they’ve had the opportunity to play a stinker, stuff up, be exposed and persevere/respond to it.

The game vs Sydney was bad but realistically how much could u expect from him there when the team was beaten from pillar to post comprehensively.

Where I take exception with Coops is that he’s carried the brunt on that performance from many fans here whilst others get the luxury of a do’over.
You amongst many say don’t play him again for ages… clearly way off the pace… yet his performances last year now suddenly count for nothing and his stinker counts most… but others get a better deal.

I’m not ready to call the kid a messiah but I haven’t written him off either.
I merely advocate that he gets the opportunity and perseverance that others have been afforded

[Teflon]

I’m not sure who they played for but I did notice right from the first bounce they seemed switched on as opposed to the last couple of games

Spot on Firey so it begs the question:
Why do you need 3 pathetic losses and a media lashing before you get a 4 quarter response??

I suspect, as good as last nights win was, with some here clearly ready to run off and release a 1 game winning streak DVD box-set, that this approach is not sustainable.

It was still a great effort but there are more holes in this game plan under pressure than Swiss cheese and despite done now trotting out the club line of “gee we’ve over achieved cause this list is ordinary” I don’t subscribe to that crap
This list should beat a lowly Bombers - not lose by 6 goals and it certainly should kick more than 2 goals in a half against Swans …it was 8-3..
That tells me something is not right with our system abd that’s on the coach
Anyway, let’s see if our new found game plan stacks up over the next few weeks before we go signing anyone is what I hope for.

Gee, got a news flash for you.

Yep I know it’s been done and members treated like muppets
Better hope those wheels don’t come off again this season cause the questions will be asked if so..

[Teflon]

This infantile hysteria over Sharman is bat shyte crazy, the kid got on the end of a few goals in his first few games but clearly is way of the pace presently and because we desperately need an extra tall in the forward line some supporters are convinced he should be an automatic selection on that basis because it is somehow best for his development. That's just nuts and Sharman would would have been monstered last night and how is that any good for his development.

With all due respect, I have read few if any suggestions at all making the issue out as you have.

The challenge is the absurdity of the extremes.


Again the answer is in the middle.

Coops finished last year as a promising up and coming forward, no more or less.
Many forumites like myself wanted to see him get the opportunity to build on that.

Not just a one off game… but a run at it that includes patches of time when the team is playing well.

NWM, Windy and other more experienced guys like Butler, Long etc have got and they’ve had the opportunity to play a stinker, stuff up, be exposed and persevere/respond to it.

The game vs Sydney was bad but realistically how much could u expect from him there when the team was beaten from pillar to post comprehensively.

Where I take exception with Coops is that he’s carried the brunt on that performance from many fans here whilst others get the luxury of a do’over.
You amongst many say don’t play him again for ages… clearly way off the pace… yet his performances last year now suddenly count for nothing and his stinker counts most… but others get a better deal.

I’m not ready to call the kid a messiah but I haven’t written him off either.
I merely advocate that he gets the opportunity and perseverance that others have been afforded

Spot on
He may not make it OR he may just show us (and the coach) that he’s better structurally for this forward set up?
Carlton missed goals last night but as Roo said what they had was a very clear fwd set up with 2 genuine key forward s and to 3qtr time had taken 8 marks to our 1
We can’t scrounge miracle goals every week - that’s not a sustainable model
Ratten (if he stays coach) had better address that
Sharman May/May not be part of the answer but at least give the kid a run to find out
As someone else said - how does he learn to play alongside King, Membrey, Ryder et al (and they him) as forward team if he’s in 1 week and out, made the scapegoat the next ?
It’s odd development and soul destroying as well

[bangaulegend]

Just watched the game & we did put up a lot better effort for sure but hey Carlton had their chances thank f-ck they didn't make the most of them . A wins a win so lets keep moving forward & concentrate on next week & if bring that effort we are a big chance as I've said on numerous occasions it's all above the shoulders bring the work rate & pressure & we can challenge anyone but if we don't well you all know what can happen .

[Vortex]

This infantile hysteria over Sharman is bat shyte crazy, the kid got on the end of a few goals in his first few games but clearly is way of the pace presently and because we desperately need an extra tall in the forward line some supporters are convinced he should be an automatic selection on that basis because it is somehow best for his development. That's just nuts and Sharman would would have been monstered last night and how is that any good for his development.

With all due respect, I have read few if any suggestions at all making the issue out as you have.

The challenge is the absurdity of the extremes.


Again the answer is in the middle.

Coops finished last year as a promising up and coming forward, no more or less.
Many forumites like myself wanted to see him get the opportunity to build on that.

Not just a one off game… but a run at it that includes patches of time when the team is playing well.

NWM, Windy and other more experienced guys like Butler, Long etc have got and they’ve had the opportunity to play a stinker, stuff up, be exposed and persevere/respond to it.

The game vs Sydney was bad but realistically how much could u expect from him there when the team was beaten from pillar to post comprehensively.

Where I take exception with Coops is that he’s carried the brunt on that performance from many fans here whilst others get the luxury of a do’over.
You amongst many say don’t play him again for ages… clearly way off the pace… yet his performances last year now suddenly count for nothing and his stinker counts most… but others get a better deal.

I’m not ready to call the kid a messiah but I haven’t written him off either.
I merely advocate that he gets the opportunity and perseverance that others have been afforded

I haven't heard anyone write him off and I couldn't see why if he earns it he'll get opportunity, and surely you agree that is one thing this current coach is big on.

[B.M]

The whole

Played for the coach

Is the biggest load of bulls**t ever spoken

Players play for the team, the jumper and themselves

Some for the money

Who cares the motivation

They are pro athletes who are expected to ‘play’

If they need a coach to play for - they are mentally soft

[Teflon]

Apparently it’s a week to week thing…

[WellardSaint]

Carlton should have won.
Their inaccuracy cost them the game.
Several examples- McKay had chances.
That #12 of theirs missed from close in. Etc

[Devilhead]

That's just nuts and Sharman would would have been monstered last night and how is that any good for his development.

Monstered by who?

Young, Plowman, Kemp?

[Scollop]

That's just nuts and Sharman would would have been monstered last night and how is that any good for his development.

Monstered by who?

Young, Plowman, Kemp?

That's a good point. How difficult would it have been to kick the same sort of Joe the Goose goals that Higgins got?

It would have been a perfect opportunity for Cooper to gain confidence against Plowman or Kemp. I'm certain he would have easily out-marked Docherty or Newman.

So here's what's really going on in my opinion. It's just an opinion, but allow me to explain and hopefully it sounds reasonable and logical

The footy department chief and head coach and the list manager have determined that they make the best decisions in the interests of the club

So, once they've decided to recruit senior ready made players, it's in their own personal interest to provide every opportunity for these guys to be successful

If selectors provide opportunities to existing players on the list (like Long or Byrnes) or first or second year draftees (that are the domain of the recruiters like Sharman) they won't get credits or recognition will they?

Not saying I disagree with all team selection decisions but the comment early 2021 that "we won't be dropping Brad Hill" is just one example of bias towards the imports. Dropping JB and keeping imports in the team is another. The imports need to show they are worthy of their pay packet and need to show they are good enough to play against the best opposition teams

[Vortex]

That's just nuts and Sharman would would have been monstered last night and how is that any good for his development.

Monstered by who?

Young, Plowman, Kemp?

Pressure at the ball

[saynta]

Just watched the game & we did put up a lot better effort for sure but hey Carlton had their chances thank f-ck they didn't make the most of them . A wins a win so lets keep moving forward & concentrate on next week & if bring that effort we are a big chance as I've said on numerous occasions it's all above the shoulders bring the work rate & pressure & we can challenge anyone but if we don't well you all know what can happen .

The Saints also missed 4 getable goals in the first quarter and should have ended/snuffed out Carltons hopes early in the day.

But hey s*** happens as the Blues scum found out when the final siren rang out.

[Teflon]

Look watching replay it’s true both sides missed goals
Do I think Carlton in the second half of the game had more of the play? Yes I do, early last quarter they had locked it in their front half but missed (very easy goals it must be said looking back).
Put that to one side
Watching the game live and on replay I do agree with Riewoldt- Carlton had a better system, certainly a better structured transition game into forward 50. At half time they had taken 8 marks to our 1 and those looks at goals were good ones.
THAT Is Riewoldts point
Their style stands up, it’s repeatable/consistent and they’ll be able to deliver it again and in finals cause they have a system.
We still bombed way too much and relied on chaos ground balls or individual brilliance from the likes of Ryder (dribble goal), Membrey (over his head) or out the ba k crumbing goals from Higgins/Butler.
Point is our style is difficult to repeat cause it lacks structure- if small forwards go missing (and they do especially when pressure is ratcheted up OR sides stop Sinclair/Hill) it falls apart.
Ratten has had 3 years to fix that
I would like to see at some point IF a Sharman can be one part of a solution to that lead up, 2 pronged forward structure (he may not) but let’s find out
I already know that our current “chaos” and bomb gane into forward 50 doesn’t work long term and doesn’t play to our strengths

[Sanctorum]

Insofar as the concept of players "playing for the coach" is a paramount fundamental of all elite professional team sport, to achieve ultimate success it must always be combined with its twin, "playing for each other, for the team".

The fate of the coach is, all things being equal, going to be decided by the players and there is little doubt that when what is perceived to be a good coach with a reasonably favourable win/loss record is sacked by a club, it emanates following consultations with the team's leadership group, which leads to another (kiss of death) concept "the coach has lost the players".

In 2019/2020 Melbourne supporters were screaming to put Simon Goodwin's scalp on the chopping block, when the team had slumped form playing a PF in 2018 to 17th and 9th respectively. It was generally believed in the football community that Goodwin had lost his players and was lucky to remain as coach for 2021.

Apparently not, because despite all the dire predictions the Demons broke their record 57 year premiership drought last year.

Was it the players or the coach??

It had to be a combination of the the two!

Jack Steele made it crystal clear last week that the players are united in their respect and love for Brett Ratten as their coach.

To me, that is the end of this story.

So those members and supporters who have doubts about Ratten's abilities to get the best out of his players and achieve greater success and want him gone need to understand that they are going to be disappointed because it is more than likely that the club will extend his contact by at least two years.

Yes, I agree that there are times that I, as an innocent bystander, have been frustrated and bewildered by team selections and some of the things happening on the field, and of course the rotten performances against Essendon and Sydney. And it's also true that I have expressed my desire for the club to pursue Alastair Clarkson if he is available because quite obviously the ultimate dream is to have the team coached by the best coach in the past 10 years. Despite that, I have always liked Brett Ratten and consider him quite a good coach.

But I'm also a realist, and see no sense in disagreeing with whatever the club hierarchy decides to do about the 2023 season coaching situation.

[Moods]

This infantile hysteria over Sharman is bat shyte crazy, the kid got on the end of a few goals in his first few games but clearly is way of the pace presently and because we desperately need an extra tall in the forward line some supporters are convinced he should be an automatic selection on that basis because it is somehow best for his development. That's just nuts and Sharman would would have been monstered last night and how is that any good for his development.

With all due respect, I have read few if any suggestions at all making the issue out as you have.

The challenge is the absurdity of the extremes.


Again the answer is in the middle.

Coops finished last year as a promising up and coming forward, no more or less.
Many forumites like myself wanted to see him get the opportunity to build on that.

Not just a one off game… but a run at it that includes patches of time when the team is playing well.

NWM, Windy and other more experienced guys like Butler, Long etc have got and they’ve had the opportunity to play a stinker, stuff up, be exposed and persevere/respond to it.

The game vs Sydney was bad but realistically how much could u expect from him there when the team was beaten from pillar to post comprehensively.

Where I take exception with Coops is that he’s carried the brunt on that performance from many fans here whilst others get the luxury of a do’over.
You amongst many say don’t play him again for ages… clearly way off the pace… yet his performances last year now suddenly count for nothing and his stinker counts most… but others get a better deal.

I’m not ready to call the kid a messiah but I haven’t written him off either.
I merely advocate that he gets the opportunity and perseverance that others have been afforded

Spot on
He may not make it OR he may just show us (and the coach) that he’s better structurally for this forward set up?
Carlton missed goals last night but as Roo said what they had was a very clear fwd set up with 2 genuine key forward s and to 3qtr time had taken 8 marks to our 1
We can’t scrounge miracle goals every week - that’s not a sustainable model
Ratten (if he stays coach) had better address that
Sharman May/May not be part of the answer but at least give the kid a run to find out
As someone else said - how does he learn to play alongside King, Membrey, Ryder et al (and they him) as forward team if he’s in 1 week and out, made the scapegoat the next ?
It’s odd development and soul destroying as well

Every player needs to do something each week to justify selection. If they don’t, then they are clearly in the gun to get omitted. Sharman showed he could jump. That’s all he showed. He couldn’t tackle, chase, compete.

He got some kicks in meaningless games at the end of last season. And I too was seduced. BUT, he was poor pre season apparently. I recall every pre season game, including intra club games he had no impact. In VFL his form hasn’t been extraordinary by any stretch.

He played 2 games in a row and was below average in one game and poor in the other. I personally thought he looked timid tbh.

I agree with much of what you have written about Friday nights win. A very enjoyable night, but loads of deficiencies still apparent. So be it, we take the wins where we can.