Current Forward Set Ups across the AFL

[Ghost Like]

St Kilda would normally have the injured Jack Hayes as a permanent 3rd tall.

On Friday night the Saints opted to have short forwards which obviously didn't work. I would have retained Mason Wood in the team because he can play tall forward as well as back, has a good tank and able to play pretty well anywhere on the ground, a strong mark and good kick for goal.

Someone told me recently that Cooper Sharman is out of favour because he doesn't defend well, but he is a perfect decoy up forward for Max King and did quite well in the last few rounds in 2021.

There's also a body of opinion that says Rowan Marshall should be a permanent CHF rather than 2nd ruck, which would mean playing either Tom Campbell or Max Heath as support for Paddy Ryder - sounds alright to me....

Sharman has only played 3 games in the same forward line as Max.

How did we go in those 3?

[Vortex]

St Kilda would normally have the injured Jack Hayes as a permanent 3rd tall.

On Friday night the Saints opted to have short forwards which obviously didn't work. I would have retained Mason Wood in the team because he can play tall forward as well as back, has a good tank and able to play pretty well anywhere on the ground, a strong mark and good kick for goal.

Someone told me recently that Cooper Sharman is out of favour because he doesn't defend well, but he is a perfect decoy up forward for Max King and did quite well in the last few rounds in 2021.

There's also a body of opinion that says Rowan Marshall should be a permanent CHF rather than 2nd ruck, which would mean playing either Tom Campbell or Max Heath as support for Paddy Ryder - sounds alright to me....

Sharman has only played 3 games in the same forward line as Max.

How did we go in those 3?

He played in the Geelong, Adelaide and North game.

As a team we played 15 minutes of good football against Geelong, against Adelaide and North we were ordinary but fortunate to be up against bottom 4 sides.

Cooper in the North game was very poor and hasn't played since.

But he's bobing up for 0 8 clutch goals a game in 2022.

[Ghost Like]

King kicked 11 in those 3 games
Membrey kicked 6 in those 3 games

That forward structure seemed to suit the team.

When Hayes played as a 3rd tall, we also won those matches - maybe there's something in having a 3 tall structure.

There's certainly been no joy in a small forward structure of late.

[Vortex]

King kicked 11 in those 3 games
Membrey kicked 6 in those 3 games

That forward structure seemed to suit the team.

When Hayes played as a 3rd tall, we also won those matches - maybe there's something in having a 3 tall structure.

There's certainly been no joy in a small forward structure of late.

3 talls certainly looks like something worth keeping as our favoured structure, just need to find a 3rd tall who can hold down the spot.

Our lack of depth has really been exposed, Hayes going down, then Steele and then RoMa's contribution falling off the cliff, Sharman not being an alternate option. The disruption Higgins has experienced has meant we don't have a small forward department and if DMac and Wood can't keep delivering to the early standard they set then without that extra tall forward we are struggling to maintain a consistent shape structurally between the midfield and F50 and to make matter worse we are struggling to lock it in F50 due to having other passengers, Buttler is a real concern. The demands of 2 way running and the 666 rule have really changed the game, and games seem to be really opening up in the 2nd half as players tire. 3 permanent talls in F50 is needed at that stage of the game I recon. And it also looks like teams have worked us out, Membery has been given licence to go into defence since about the half way mark of last season if needed but as was the case against the Bombers, it telegraphs our mindset and game plan, and robs us of our forward setup. We need to find a new trick when a team is strong arming us.

Players resting in a forward line sounds like something you would do in the 90s, or something you could do with a player like Dusty because even at 75% fit, only players of his calibre might create a viable option of "resting" somewhere on an AFL field.

[shanegrambeau]

King, Sharman and Membrey

Sharman is currently out of favor .... get with the programme

I think Sharman is in favor however Sharman is only good at VFL level but he is very VFL level at AFL level.

Eh…how do you know? Based on what?

Michael Holding played for Jamaica.
Was selected for the Windies tour of Australia in ‘75/‘76 in the back of some promising talent.

Never took a five/for in Jamaica

Came out to Australia. Bowled as a front line bowler. Averaged 60+ with the ball. Windies lost 1-5.

Imagine if they used your logic.

Nuts.

Now I am not comparing them as players. I am comparing your template for making a judgment.

And passing it off as wisdom.

As if….

[skeptic]

So let’s go ahead and accept the argument that Sharman doesn’t defend well.

Could an alternative strategy to ignoring all of his positive attributes and contributions and focusing entirely on his negatives, be to really have him work on that during games.

Look at Zac Jones... clearly building up his fitness in games and has been much more productive (though has gears to go up still) than he was initially on return.
Clearly Clark is building up a base too.

Both of their outputs have been far below what we expect from both but they get the opportunity to work on it

I don’t necessarily mind that approach.

King and Higgins have stuff to work on too... King barely leads and both struggle with accuracy.

The strategy is that you accept and try to exploit their strengths and have them work on the challenges.

Why doesn’t this apply to Coops?

[Vortex]

King, Sharman and Membrey

Sharman is currently out of favor .... get with the programme

I think Sharman is in favor however Sharman is only good at VFL level but he is very VFL level at AFL level.

Eh…how do you know? Based on what?

Michael Holding played for Jamaica.
Was selected for the Windies tour of Australia in ‘75/‘76 in the back of some promising talent.

Never took a five/for in Jamaica

Came out to Australia. Bowled as a front line bowler. Averaged 60+ with the ball. Windies lost 1-5.

Imagine if they used your logic.

Nuts.

Now I am not comparing them as players. I am comparing your template for making a judgment.

And passing it off as wisdom.

As if….

based on he has a contract and Ratts is a cuddly type coach and he seems to gives cuddles even if he doesn't think a player is best 22. Dunstan is a player who fits the "out of favour" category.

Stopped readying at Michael Holding.

[Vortex]

So let’s go ahead and accept the argument that Sharman doesn’t defend well.

Could an alternative strategy to ignoring all of his positive attributes and contributions and focusing entirely on his negatives, be to really have him work on that during games.

Look at Zac Jones... clearly building up his fitness in games and has been much more productive (though has gears to go up still) than he was initially on return.
Clearly Clark is building up a base too.

Both of their outputs have been far below what we expect from both but they get the opportunity to work on it

I don’t necessarily mind that approach.

King and Higgins have stuff to work on too... King barely leads and both struggle with accuracy.

The strategy is that you accept and try to exploit their strengths and have them work on the challenges.

Why doesn’t this apply to Coops?

My thoughts would be how many players can you have doing their apprenticeship in the side at once ? If we weren't aiming to win games of footy or have a finals spot as a goal in 2022 then the answer to the question might be different.

He played poorly against the Crows and he had an absolute shocker against North, hasn't played since. He's got time on his side, who knows he might get picked this week if Ratts throws the toys out of the cot, personally I think other than Steele, DMac and maybe Wood coming in, I think Ratts will challenge the side to work through their issues of selfishness on their own out in full view of an AFL field. So if only 2, maybe 3 changes I can't see Sharman getting in this week even though it looks like we are better with an extra tall forward.

[Devilhead]

So let’s go ahead and accept the argument that Sharman doesn’t defend well.

Could an alternative strategy to ignoring all of his positive attributes and contributions and focusing entirely on his negatives, be to really have him work on that during games.

Look at Zac Jones... clearly building up his fitness in games and has been much more productive (though has gears to go up still) than he was initially on return.
Clearly Clark is building up a base too.

Both of their outputs have been far below what we expect from both but they get the opportunity to work on it

I don’t necessarily mind that approach.

King and Higgins have stuff to work on too... King barely leads and both struggle with accuracy.

The strategy is that you accept and try to exploit their strengths and have them work on the challenges.

Why doesn’t this apply to Coops?

My thoughts would be how many players can you have doing their apprenticeship in the side at once ? If we weren't aiming to win games of footy or have a finals spot as a goal in 2022 then the answer to the question might be different.

He played poorly against the Crows and he had an absolute shocker against North, hasn't played since. He's got time on his side, who knows he might get picked this week if Ratts throws the toys out of the cot, personally I think other than Steele, DMac and maybe Wood coming in, I think Ratts will challenge the side to work through their issues of selfishness on their own out in full view of an AFL field. So if only 2, maybe 3 changes I can't see Sharman getting in this week even though it looks like we are better with an extra tall forward.

Wood coming in?

He got 9 possessions at Sandy yesterday

Sharman has kicked 4 & 3 goals the last 2 weeks

But hey let's bring Wood back in

[shanegrambeau]

King, Sharman and Membrey

Sharman is currently out of favor .... get with the programme

I think Sharman is in favor however Sharman is only good at VFL level but he is very VFL level at AFL level.

Eh…how do you know? Based on what?

Michael Holding played for Jamaica.
Was selected for the Windies tour of Australia in ‘75/‘76 in the back of some promising talent.

Never took a five/for in Jamaica

Came out to Australia. Bowled as a front line bowler. Averaged 60+ with the ball. Windies lost 1-5.

Imagine if they used your logic.

Nuts.

Now I am not comparing them as players. I am comparing your template for making a judgment.

And passing it off as wisdom.

As if….

based on he has a contract and Ratts is a cuddly type coach and he seems to gives cuddles even if he doesn't think a player is best 22. Dunstan is a player who fits the "out of favour" category.

Stopped readying at Michael Holding.

Few are ready for Michael Holding.
I would want to face him, even now.
But I don’t mind ..
Averaged 60+ in his first tour. Windies list 1-5

Your logic is missing something.

But perhaps you know something special we don’t !! Do tell!

[Vortex]

So let’s go ahead and accept the argument that Sharman doesn’t defend well.

Could an alternative strategy to ignoring all of his positive attributes and contributions and focusing entirely on his negatives, be to really have him work on that during games.

Look at Zac Jones... clearly building up his fitness in games and has been much more productive (though has gears to go up still) than he was initially on return.
Clearly Clark is building up a base too.

Both of their outputs have been far below what we expect from both but they get the opportunity to work on it

I don’t necessarily mind that approach.

King and Higgins have stuff to work on too... King barely leads and both struggle with accuracy.

The strategy is that you accept and try to exploit their strengths and have them work on the challenges.

Why doesn’t this apply to Coops?

My thoughts would be how many players can you have doing their apprenticeship in the side at once ? If we weren't aiming to win games of footy or have a finals spot as a goal in 2022 then the answer to the question might be different.

He played poorly against the Crows and he had an absolute shocker against North, hasn't played since. He's got time on his side, who knows he might get picked this week if Ratts throws the toys out of the cot, personally I think other than Steele, DMac and maybe Wood coming in, I think Ratts will challenge the side to work through their issues of selfishness on their own out in full view of an AFL field. So if only 2, maybe 3 changes I can't see Sharman getting in this week even though it looks like we are better with an extra tall forward.

Wood coming in?

He got 9 possessions at Sandy yesterday

Sharman has kicked 4 & 3 goals the last 2 weeks

But hey let's bring Wood back in

Were they "clutch" goals?

[skeptic]

So let’s go ahead and accept the argument that Sharman doesn’t defend well.

Could an alternative strategy to ignoring all of his positive attributes and contributions and focusing entirely on his negatives, be to really have him work on that during games.

Look at Zac Jones... clearly building up his fitness in games and has been much more productive (though has gears to go up still) than he was initially on return.
Clearly Clark is building up a base too.

Both of their outputs have been far below what we expect from both but they get the opportunity to work on it

I don’t necessarily mind that approach.

King and Higgins have stuff to work on too... King barely leads and both struggle with accuracy.

The strategy is that you accept and try to exploit their strengths and have them work on the challenges.

Why doesn’t this apply to Coops?

My thoughts would be how many players can you have doing their apprenticeship in the side at once ? If we weren't aiming to win games of footy or have a finals spot as a goal in 2022 then the answer to the question might be different.

He played poorly against the Crows and he had an absolute shocker against North, hasn't played since. He's got time on his side, who knows he might get picked this week if Ratts throws the toys out of the cot, personally I think other than Steele, DMac and maybe Wood coming in, I think Ratts will challenge the side to work through their issues of selfishness on their own out in full view of an AFL field. So if only 2, maybe 3 changes I can't see Sharman getting in this week even though it looks like we are better with an extra tall forward.

The variation is that the players in his spot that are more experienced, have higher expectations etc aren’t outperforming him or not by much at least
Butler certainly isn’t
Higgins is winning about as much football but kicking goals etc

It’s like I said before… IMO there isn’t or should t be an expectation that Coops comes in and elevates us to a top 4 side.
But he’s a 10 game player that’s impacting more than can reasonably be expected of him that seems to have tougher expectations on him than almost anyone else

None of us would have expected to even see him play yet when he was drafted and he has consistently been able to hit the scoreboard when he comes in.

Surely at the very least , impressions should be positive and opportunity presented

[Vortex]

So let’s go ahead and accept the argument that Sharman doesn’t defend well.

Could an alternative strategy to ignoring all of his positive attributes and contributions and focusing entirely on his negatives, be to really have him work on that during games.

Look at Zac Jones... clearly building up his fitness in games and has been much more productive (though has gears to go up still) than he was initially on return.
Clearly Clark is building up a base too.

Both of their outputs have been far below what we expect from both but they get the opportunity to work on it

I don’t necessarily mind that approach.

King and Higgins have stuff to work on too... King barely leads and both struggle with accuracy.

The strategy is that you accept and try to exploit their strengths and have them work on the challenges.

Why doesn’t this apply to Coops?

My thoughts would be how many players can you have doing their apprenticeship in the side at once ? If we weren't aiming to win games of footy or have a finals spot as a goal in 2022 then the answer to the question might be different.

He played poorly against the Crows and he had an absolute shocker against North, hasn't played since. He's got time on his side, who knows he might get picked this week if Ratts throws the toys out of the cot, personally I think other than Steele, DMac and maybe Wood coming in, I think Ratts will challenge the side to work through their issues of selfishness on their own out in full view of an AFL field. So if only 2, maybe 3 changes I can't see Sharman getting in this week even though it looks like we are better with an extra tall forward.

The variation is that the players in his spot that are more experienced, have higher expectations etc aren’t outperforming him or not by much at least
Butler certainly isn’t
Higgins is winning about as much football but kicking goals etc

It’s like I said before… IMO there isn’t or should t be an expectation that Coops comes in and elevates us to a top 4 side.
But he’s a 10 game player that’s impacting more than can reasonably be expected of him that seems to have tougher expectations on him than almost anyone else

None of us would have expected to even see him play yet when he was drafted and he has consistently been able to hit the scoreboard when he comes in.

Surely at the very least , impressions should be positive and opportunity presented

I think some supporters are still trading on the legend of 2021 but his 3 games this year have exposed him. We've got a few problems between the midfield and F50, one being our inability to lock the ball in F50. So if he's not kicking goals and he's not dragging a defender away from King to create a contest with a mark or bringing it to ground and he can't defend then really he's got a fair few weaknesses. 0.8 goals for 3 games probably doesn't compensate on his other weaknesses.

He looks a million bucks at VFL level.

[SunnyErnie]

King, Sharman and Membrey

Sharman is currently out of favor .... get with the programme

No, all the selectors should be sacked for dropping him

[Ghost Like]

King, Sharman and Membrey

Sharman is currently out of favor .... get with the programme

No, all the selectors should be sacked for dropping him

Ahhh, the cool winds of reason blowing through Saintsational.

[The_Dud]

Doesn’t Membrey play in the backline?

[Devilhead]

Doesn’t Membrey play in the backline?

Edit ...

St Kilda - King (1)

[skeptic]

So let’s go ahead and accept the argument that Sharman doesn’t defend well.

Could an alternative strategy to ignoring all of his positive attributes and contributions and focusing entirely on his negatives, be to really have him work on that during games.

Look at Zac Jones... clearly building up his fitness in games and has been much more productive (though has gears to go up still) than he was initially on return.
Clearly Clark is building up a base too.

Both of their outputs have been far below what we expect from both but they get the opportunity to work on it

I don’t necessarily mind that approach.

King and Higgins have stuff to work on too... King barely leads and both struggle with accuracy.

The strategy is that you accept and try to exploit their strengths and have them work on the challenges.

Why doesn’t this apply to Coops?

My thoughts would be how many players can you have doing their apprenticeship in the side at once ? If we weren't aiming to win games of footy or have a finals spot as a goal in 2022 then the answer to the question might be different.

He played poorly against the Crows and he had an absolute shocker against North, hasn't played since. He's got time on his side, who knows he might get picked this week if Ratts throws the toys out of the cot, personally I think other than Steele, DMac and maybe Wood coming in, I think Ratts will challenge the side to work through their issues of selfishness on their own out in full view of an AFL field. So if only 2, maybe 3 changes I can't see Sharman getting in this week even though it looks like we are better with an extra tall forward.

The variation is that the players in his spot that are more experienced, have higher expectations etc aren’t outperforming him or not by much at least
Butler certainly isn’t
Higgins is winning about as much football but kicking goals etc

It’s like I said before… IMO there isn’t or should t be an expectation that Coops comes in and elevates us to a top 4 side.
But he’s a 10 game player that’s impacting more than can reasonably be expected of him that seems to have tougher expectations on him than almost anyone else

None of us would have expected to even see him play yet when he was drafted and he has consistently been able to hit the scoreboard when he comes in.

Surely at the very least , impressions should be positive and opportunity presented

I think some supporters are still trading on the legend of 2021 but his 3 games this year have exposed him. We've got a few problems between the midfield and F50, one being our inability to lock the ball in F50. So if he's not kicking goals and he's not dragging a defender away from King to create a contest with a mark or bringing it to ground and he can't defend then really he's got a fair few weaknesses. 0.8 goals for 3 games probably doesn't compensate on his other weaknesses.

He looks a million bucks at VFL level.

I don’t look at him as being exposed
Nor as a match winner that has cemented a spot

He’s been ok’ish which at this point in development is a big win for a young forward IMO

[older saint]

Current standard preferred tall to medium forward marking set ups across the league (doesn't include resting Ruckman) - when players are available

Melbourne - Brown, McDonald, Fritsch (3)
Brisbane - Daniher, McStay, Hipwood (3)
Freo - Lobb, Taberner, Logue (3)
Geelong - Hawkins, Cameron, Rohan (3)
Carlton - McKay, Curnow, Silvagni (3)
Richmond - Lynch, Riewoldt, Balta (3)
Sydney - Franklin, McDonald, Heeney (3)
St Kilda - King, Membrey (2)
Collingwood - Mihocek, Cameron, Henry (3)
Bulldogs -  Naughton, then 2 of JU-H, Scache, Bruce (3)
Port - Dixon, Marshall, Georgiadis (3)
Gold Coast - Casboult, Chol (King) maybe (2 or 3)
GWS - Hogan, Himmelberg, Riccardi (3)
Hawthorn - Lewis, Koschitske, Gunston (3)
Adelaide - Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, (3)
Essendon - Wright, Jones, Stringer (3)
North - Larkey, Zurhaar (2)
West Coast - Kennedy, Darling, Waterman (3)

Reckon that is pretty close - also doesn't include marking smalls like Greene, Weightman, Elliott, etc ....

Think it's time our Match Committee wake the f-up an get with the programme

Our third tall is our second ruck. Issue is partly one has been operating on one leg for a month now

[Teflon]

St Kilda would normally have the injured Jack Hayes as a permanent 3rd tall.

On Friday night the Saints opted to have short forwards which obviously didn't work. I would have retained Mason Wood in the team because he can play tall forward as well as back, has a good tank and able to play pretty well anywhere on the ground, a strong mark and good kick for goal.

Someone told me recently that Cooper Sharman is out of favour because he doesn't defend well, but he is a perfect decoy up forward for Max King and did quite well in the last few rounds in 2021.

There's also a body of opinion that says Rowan Marshall should be a permanent CHF rather than 2nd ruck, which would mean playing either Tom Campbell or Max Heath as support for Paddy Ryder - sounds alright to me....

Sharman has only played 3 games in the same forward line as Max.

But you’ve seen enough to call time on his career?? Lol

[Teflon]

This poor kid is the most contentious youngster I can think of for ages

If a young, 10g forward was getting these types of results anywhere else... supporter basis would be saying gee what a promising young player, could be anything, let’s give him a shot

Here we’re like... he hasn’t kicked 15 goals in a game up yet. As a goal kicker he needs to get at least 20 touches a game

And the coaches are happy to give multiple opportunities and stretches of games to forwards that don’t kick goals and often don’t rack possessions.

Dean Kent has played what 40 games as a 5 touch, 1 goal every 3 games, one or two games a year where ppl pass him the ball in the goal square and he ends up with 3, SFA tackles and work rate... universal disdain from the supporter face, laughter from oppositions... and they wouldn’t drop him and he was almost always the first one picked back.

I really hate to say it... in his own interest, I think Coops should ask for a trade before we shatter his confidence with special conditions applied only to him

If you were Sharmans manager you’d be shipping him to Hawks even Pies etc alongside Miocic
I mean ….our coach seems infatuated with small forward set ups

[SunnyErnie]

King, Sharman and Membrey

Sharman is currently out of favor .... get with the programme

No, all the selectors should be sacked for dropping him

Ahhh, the cool winds of reason blowing through Saintsational.

Stupidity!!!

[Teflon]

King kicked 11 in those 3 games
Membrey kicked 6 in those 3 games

That forward structure seemed to suit the team.

When Hayes played as a 3rd tall, we also won those matches - maybe there's something in having a 3 tall structure.

There's certainly been no joy in a small forward structure of late.

Great post
Hard to fathom people don’t realise we don’t need Sharman to be Carey we just need him to be dangerous, spread oppo defence and kick the goal when he gets his chances
I’d love him to become a Gunston or Fritz type either way right now he doesn’t have to do much to shade Membrey when he’s upforward (and clearly Membrey plays better when he’s a 3rd forward not no 2)

[Teflon]

King, Sharman and Membrey

Sharman is currently out of favor .... get with the programme

I think Sharman is in favor however Sharman is only good at VFL level but he is very VFL level at AFL level.

Eh…how do you know? Based on what?

Michael Holding played for Jamaica.
Was selected for the Windies tour of Australia in ‘75/‘76 in the back of some promising talent.

Never took a five/for in Jamaica

Came out to Australia. Bowled as a front line bowler. Averaged 60+ with the ball. Windies lost 1-5.

Imagine if they used your logic.

Nuts.

Now I am not comparing them as players. I am comparing your template for making a judgment.

And passing it off as wisdom.

As if….

based on he has a contract and Ratts is a cuddly type coach and he seems to gives cuddles even if he doesn't think a player is best 22. Dunstan is a player who fits the "out of favour" category.

Stopped readying at Michael Holding.

Few are ready for Michael Holding.
I would want to face him, even now.
But I don’t mind ..
Averaged 60+ in his first tour. Windies list 1-5

Your logic is missing something.

But perhaps you know something special we don’t !! Do tell!

Yep some crap logic
“Brett doesn’t pick him and he’s not W Carey in 7 games so he’s out”….
Thank **** some on here are no where near selection

[B.M]

Membrey never plays as a defender - that would mean we he has a forward opponent


He just pops down behind the ball to play as a spare - when we are bleeding - or at the back end of quarters