I think Ratts is cooked…

[axcellence]

Saints have a great leader. Hannebery- Shane that he still can’t get to the park.

[MC Gusto]

Not a chance in hell Clarko comes to the saints

[axcellence]

Is he any good?

Gets out-coached almost weekly. Doesn’t seem to be able to motivate the players or hold the team to high standards…

I don’t want another 6 years of Richo…

I had my question marks in 2019, when he allowed the swans to thrash the saints like a park footy team. Granted that, it was a dead rubber. However, Swans weren’t too flash that year, and it felt disrespectful to allow that.

2020 - I felt that Saints played with a 1 ace - Ryder and Marshall combo.

2021 - see 2021, except Ryder was away in the early part and then Marshall was missing for another large part.

So, in all, it’s a pretty average coaching effort. Still better than Richo in some ways and worse in others. Overall, I feel that the Saints is now a “team” and not “my team”.

[whiskers3614]

Saints have a great leader. Hannebery- Shane that he still can’t get to the park.

you didn't think the weekend was bleak enough without mentioning that name?

Guess you're going to tell us we missed Lovett and Freeman's pace too?
The absolute idiocy of our trading knows no limits, it has been the greatest stuff up and continues on.

[SaintDippa]

We have a once in a generation opportunity to get the one of the best performed coach in AFL/VFL history. The kitchen sink at Moorabbin needs to be removed and thrown at Clarko. If he's looking for a challenge what bigger opportunity is there than delivering our first flag in 56 years.

[spert]

Get GT back

[Teflon]

We’d be derelict not asking the Clarko question
I like Ratten but the inability to get a team to perform when expectations are on them is a big thing for a coach
Yes, we lack class and have injuries but we’ve been badly beaten too many times this year (I don’t count junk time goals sorry)
Carlton had better disposal efficiency and inside forward 50 efficiency- the latter has been a glaring problem during Richo time abs now still not fixed. That’s a disgrace
For to long we have carried mediocre players - I know Connolly made mistakes in game 5 but at least he tried to go forward abs make the play - what was Billings, Ross, Crouch, Butler, Membrey, Kent (don’t get me started) excuses????
Sharman looked better with 2.1 and 4 marks getting on the move than many of our “experienced mediocre” players
People keep saying “you don’t move good players like Billings etc on as you won’t improve “
That’s BS thinking that holds us back - GOOD clubs do it well all the time - Jones can get the ball 30 times...(fumbles and tries to do too much) Swans know that he’s an ok player but let him go to improve...,they did it with Membrey too. These guys come to St Kilda abs they’re treated like superstars ????????
Raise the bar and level of expectation
IF you are a turn over merchant there is no room for you at Saints
Instead we will make no aggressive moves to Clarko, we’ll limp along next year and re-sign Ratten and move 1 assistant on end year making noises about “big offseason changes”
We are mediocre

[takeaway]

We’d be derelict not asking the Clarko question
I like Ratten but the inability to get a team to perform when expectations are on them is a big thing for a coach
Yes, we lack class and have injuries but we’ve been badly beaten too many times this year (I don’t count junk time goals sorry)
Carlton had better disposal efficiency and inside forward 50 efficiency- the latter has been a glaring problem during Richo time abs now still not fixed. That’s a disgrace
For to long we have carried mediocre players - I know Connolly made mistakes in game 5 but at least he tried to go forward abs make the play - what was Billings, Ross, Crouch, Butler, Membrey, Kent (don’t get me started) excuses????
Sharman looked better with 2.1 and 4 marks getting on the move than many of our “experienced mediocre” players
People keep saying “you don’t move good players like Billings etc on as you won’t improve “
That’s BS thinking that holds us back - GOOD clubs do it well all the time - Jones can get the ball 30 times...(fumbles and tries to do too much) Swans know that he’s an ok player but let him go to improve...,they did it with Membrey too. These guys come to St Kilda abs they’re treated like superstars ????????
Raise the bar and level of expectation
IF you are a turn over merchant there is no room for you at Saints
Instead we will make no aggressive moves to Clarko, we’ll limp along next year and re-sign Ratten and move 1 assistant on end year making noises about “big offseason changes”
We are mediocre

I see you haven't fixed your abs issue.

[st.byron]

We’d be derelict not asking the Clarko question
I like Ratten but the inability to get a team to perform when expectations are on them is a big thing for a coach
Yes, we lack class and have injuries but we’ve been badly beaten too many times this year (I don’t count junk time goals sorry)
Carlton had better disposal efficiency and inside forward 50 efficiency- the latter has been a glaring problem during Richo time abs now still not fixed. That’s a disgrace
For to long we have carried mediocre players - I know Connolly made mistakes in game 5 but at least he tried to go forward abs make the play - what was Billings, Ross, Crouch, Butler, Membrey, Kent (don’t get me started) excuses????
Sharman looked better with 2.1 and 4 marks getting on the move than many of our “experienced mediocre” players
People keep saying “you don’t move good players like Billings etc on as you won’t improve “
That’s BS thinking that holds us back - GOOD clubs do it well all the time - Jones can get the ball 30 times...(fumbles and tries to do too much) Swans know that he’s an ok player but let him go to improve...,they did it with Membrey too. These guys come to St Kilda abs they’re treated like superstars ????????
Raise the bar and level of expectation
IF you are a turn over merchant there is no room for you at Saints
Instead we will make no aggressive moves to Clarko, we’ll limp along next year and re-sign Ratten and move 1 assistant on end year making noises about “big offseason changes”
We are mediocre

That pretty much sums up what I also expect will unfold. No aggressive move for one of the most successful coaches in history. Lethlean and Co will carry on, Billings and Ross will both still be there next year, spin about having faith in Ratts and the 'plan' will be dished up, coz our premiership window doesn't open until 2022 don't ya know. Mediocrity will continue to be rewarded with ongoing baffling selection decisions i.e Kent.
They lost me after the Bummers debacle and haven't seen much to instil renewed hope.

[shanegrambeau]

Is he any good?

Gets out-coached almost weekly. Doesn’t seem to be able to motivate the players or hold the team to high standards…

I don’t want another 6 years of Richo…

I had my question marks in 2019, when he allowed the swans to thrash the saints like a park footy team. Granted that, it was a dead rubber. However, Swans weren’t too flash that year, and it felt disrespectful to allow that.

2020 - I felt that Saints played with a 1 ace - Ryder and Marshall combo.

2021 - see 2021, except Ryder was away in the early part and then Marshall was missing for another large part.

So, in all, it’s a pretty average coaching effort. Still better than Richo in some ways and worse in others. Overall, I feel that the Saints is now a “team” and not “my team”.

Yes, those last few 2019 games, after the euphoria of Ratts taking over, and those losses to lowly Carlton and that spanking the Swans gave us, they were the harbinger games IMO…I started to watch more closely that season…

Our losses to the Swans and Blues and then that round one debacle against Nirth on 2020 pre COVId crisis, we’re indications we were miles away from being a top four team..

One doesn’t know internally, if our success in 2020 was kept in context or allowed to gas the changing rooms and minds of the players with dizziness.

In any case, we are just a plodding team and like all middle of the roaders, we have a few good ones.

I was not sure about Hughmote and Clark coming back (I’m still not sure about Billings and Marshall physically¥ but I was quite the more sure about Kent and Long going out.
Now what have we got?
A back six - yes…? No? What’s it gonna be? I count four starters

The mid field is weak

The forward line is one dimensional…with Membrey and Butler almost like tall and small utilities

Our over supply of decent middling tallish defenders needs to be exploited and at least two of Clav, Connolly, Highmore, Joyce, Coffield should be tried as third forward s..

Wood shows a bit but he might be cooked for all we know. And I am now thinking Bytel is still cooked and therefore not picked? Back isssue? Probably overthinking that one…

I didn’t expect finals this year so I’m not gonna sulk except I am gonna sulk cause damn it St Kilda!!!

[Impatient Sainter]

Teflon I agree with your list management comments and our culture of mediocrity. Billings and Dunstan simply have to go we are going nowhere with those two playing - similiarly to Acres before he left. Also if we get a decent offer on Ross I believe he can be traded also. Membrey has had a really poor year, but we know he has another 2 levels to go to.

We have been non competitive in far too many games, in the main by teams who force us to turn the ball over. Ratten conceded the weaknesses last night and said there will need to be changes to the game plan at seasons end.

On Ratten v Clarkson, we really have to look at the soldiers we have had available. Clarkson hasnt looked any better than Ratten with Hawthorns current list, plus Ratten hasnt had a full fit list to chose from at any point this year. Most teams can carry a couple of key players out but not the number we have had out.

I believe losing a number of mates to long term concussions and other long term injuries has lead to an underlying mental fragility within the group. The Paton injury which was such a dumb act by an assistant coach was brutal and really pulled the rug out from under their season (mentally). I liken it to professional footballing cumulative PTSD. I dont believe enough is said about the impact of mates losing their career or long terms injuries on the rest of the group!

In summary I think Ratten is the right man for our club, but he needs to change the game plan and also needs some clean air with player availability.

[The Fireman]

would take Clarkson in a heart beat

[The_Dud]

Teflon I agree with your list management comments and our culture of mediocrity. Billings and Dunstan simply have to go we are going nowhere with those two playing - similiarly to Acres before he left. Also if we get a decent offer on Ross I believe he can be traded also. Membrey has had a really poor year, but we know he has another 2 levels to go to.

We have been non competitive in far too many games, in the main by teams who force us to turn the ball over. Ratten conceded the weaknesses last night and said there will need to be changes to the game plan at seasons end.

On Ratten v Clarkson, we really have to look at the soldiers we have had available. Clarkson hasnt looked any better than Ratten with Hawthorns current list, plus Ratten hasnt had a full fit list to chose from at any point this year. Most teams can carry a couple of key players out but not the number we have had out.

I believe losing a number of mates to long term concussions and other long term injuries has lead to an underlying mental fragility within the group. The Paton injury which was such a dumb act by an assistant coach was brutal and really pulled the rug out from under their season (mentally). I liken it to professional footballing cumulative PTSD. I dont believe enough is said about the impact of mates losing their career or long terms injuries on the rest of the group!

In summary I think Ratten is the right man for our club, but he needs to change the game plan and also needs some clean air with player availability.

I think at least Clarkson wouldn’t put up with the mediocrity week after week.

[Sanctorum]

Sounds like your cooked.

*you’re

Typo.

You’re a real loser and a troll.

I thought repeated personal attacks weren’t allowed on here?

Repeated bullying?

Repeated trolling?

What about that?

Don’t play all innocent because it’s the truth so don’t get all sensitive; you know what you really are.

Just cry me a river, Dud.

You’re just a sook.

Can I suggest you both show some maturity and ignore each other's personal snipes please - it is tedious for everyone else and disrespectful to the really decent Saints supporters who moderate this great forum!

[shanegrambeau]

Lest we forget champion coaches of the past failing at flagging clubs - reaching for the $0$ call of an ailing club…

Alan Jeans Richmond
Malcolm Blight St Kilda
Denis Pagan Carlton
Michael Malthouse Carlton

I’m sure there’s a bunch…

[Sainter_Dad]

Teflon I agree with your list management comments and our culture of mediocrity. Billings and Dunstan simply have to go we are going nowhere with those two playing - similiarly to Acres before he left. Also if we get a decent offer on Ross I believe he can be traded also. Membrey has had a really poor year, but we know he has another 2 levels to go to.

We have been non competitive in far too many games, in the main by teams who force us to turn the ball over. Ratten conceded the weaknesses last night and said there will need to be changes to the game plan at seasons end.

On Ratten v Clarkson, we really have to look at the soldiers we have had available. Clarkson hasnt looked any better than Ratten with Hawthorns current list, plus Ratten hasnt had a full fit list to chose from at any point this year. Most teams can carry a couple of key players out but not the number we have had out.

I believe losing a number of mates to long term concussions and other long term injuries has lead to an underlying mental fragility within the group. The Paton injury which was such a dumb act by an assistant coach was brutal and really pulled the rug out from under their season (mentally). I liken it to professional footballing cumulative PTSD. I dont believe enough is said about the impact of mates losing their career or long terms injuries on the rest of the group!

In summary I think Ratten is the right man for our club, but he needs to change the game plan and also needs some clean air with player availability.

I think at least Clarkson wouldn’t put up with the mediocrity week after week.

Or would try SOMETHING - ANYTHING in game

[st.byron]

Teflon I agree with your list management comments and our culture of mediocrity. Billings and Dunstan simply have to go we are going nowhere with those two playing - similiarly to Acres before he left. Also if we get a decent offer on Ross I believe he can be traded also. Membrey has had a really poor year, but we know he has another 2 levels to go to.

We have been non competitive in far too many games, in the main by teams who force us to turn the ball over. Ratten conceded the weaknesses last night and said there will need to be changes to the game plan at seasons end.

On Ratten v Clarkson, we really have to look at the soldiers we have had available. Clarkson hasnt looked any better than Ratten with Hawthorns current list, plus Ratten hasnt had a full fit list to chose from at any point this year. Most teams can carry a couple of key players out but not the number we have had out.

I believe losing a number of mates to long term concussions and other long term injuries has lead to an underlying mental fragility within the group. The Paton injury which was such a dumb act by an assistant coach was brutal and really pulled the rug out from under their season (mentally). I liken it to professional footballing cumulative PTSD. I dont believe enough is said about the impact of mates losing their career or long terms injuries on the rest of the group!

In summary I think Ratten is the right man for our club, but he needs to change the game plan and also needs some clean air with player availability.

Seriously? Ratten said there will be no changes to our game plan. Clarkson come on down.
F*** me. Keep on bombing it long to an outnumbered big guy Brett, then use guys like Butler, Kent and Higgins to kick the goals. It's so effective.

[Sanctorum]

Yet another heart-breaking and heavy loss to an opponent that was ranked below our team - allowing Carlton to score 12 goals from turnovers, some in St Kilda's defensive 50, is unforgiveable and yes, really embarrassing for the players concerned.

For most of the game Carlton ran rings around St Kilda, they moved the ball so much better and despite the Saints dominating the rucks their onballers were far superior to ours and were able to swiftly deliver the ball in their attack.

On the few occasions that St Kilda manged a forward entry Carlton's defence had no trouble whatsoever outpointing our forwards and running the ball back to their advantage.

I have always supported Brett Ratten in the past and am not about to rush into an adverse opinion of him as St Kilda coach - in 2020 we all felt he had been quite successful as he took the team into the finals.

This year issues such as Paddy Ryder taking leave, Rowan Marshall missing a lot of games as well as others good players out injured have combined to unsettle the side.

But when all's said and done, I have to admit that the really bad performances this season (and there've been a few) do not reflect well on the coaching panel because lack of effort by the players is indicative of both ineffective coaching (solid game plan, motivating the players, getting their mindset right) plus very poor on-field leadership, an issue that I have been banging on about for the last 2 years.

The club has to think really carefully about their off-season recruiting strategies, and apart from selecting the best young talent available in the NAB draft, I also believe it is imperative that they look for a really strong on-field leader from another team, and I again mention former Melbourne skipper Nathan Jones as the best option. Like his younger brother Zak he is a really hard-nut type of player, takes no prisoners and leads by example in a way that few others can, at least not anyone currently on the Saints list!

[saynta]

We lost that game at the selection table. Who the f*** plays injured or underdone footballers beside the saints.

Oscar should have been in that side along with Battle and Bytel.

And Ratts, how about you instruct our rucks to hit the ball to the guy wearing red white and black FFS. It would make a nice change.

[Impatient Sainter]

Teflon I agree with your list management comments and our culture of mediocrity. Billings and Dunstan simply have to go we are going nowhere with those two playing - similiarly to Acres before he left. Also if we get a decent offer on Ross I believe he can be traded also. Membrey has had a really poor year, but we know he has another 2 levels to go to.

We have been non competitive in far too many games, in the main by teams who force us to turn the ball over. Ratten conceded the weaknesses last night and said there will need to be changes to the game plan at seasons end.

On Ratten v Clarkson, we really have to look at the soldiers we have had available. Clarkson hasnt looked any better than Ratten with Hawthorns current list, plus Ratten hasnt had a full fit list to chose from at any point this year. Most teams can carry a couple of key players out but not the number we have had out.

I believe losing a number of mates to long term concussions and other long term injuries has lead to an underlying mental fragility within the group. The Paton injury which was such a dumb act by an assistant coach was brutal and really pulled the rug out from under their season (mentally). I liken it to professional footballing cumulative PTSD. I dont believe enough is said about the impact of mates losing their career or long terms injuries on the rest of the group!

In summary I think Ratten is the right man for our club, but he needs to change the game plan and also needs some clean air with player availability.

I think at least Clarkson wouldn’t put up with the mediocrity week after week.

Where are Hawthorn on the ladder? Clarkson looks completely burnt out to me, he needs 12 months away from the game to refresh.

[Teflon]

We lost that game at the selection table. Who the f*** plays injured or underdone footballers beside the saints.

Oscar should have been in that side along with Battle and Bytel.

And Ratts, how about you instruct our rucks to hit the ball to the guy wearing red white and black FFS. It would make a nice change.

Battle out for year injured?

[Teflon]

Teflon I agree with your list management comments and our culture of mediocrity. Billings and Dunstan simply have to go we are going nowhere with those two playing - similiarly to Acres before he left. Also if we get a decent offer on Ross I believe he can be traded also. Membrey has had a really poor year, but we know he has another 2 levels to go to.

We have been non competitive in far too many games, in the main by teams who force us to turn the ball over. Ratten conceded the weaknesses last night and said there will need to be changes to the game plan at seasons end.

On Ratten v Clarkson, we really have to look at the soldiers we have had available. Clarkson hasnt looked any better than Ratten with Hawthorns current list, plus Ratten hasnt had a full fit list to chose from at any point this year. Most teams can carry a couple of key players out but not the number we have had out.

I believe losing a number of mates to long term concussions and other long term injuries has lead to an underlying mental fragility within the group. The Paton injury which was such a dumb act by an assistant coach was brutal and really pulled the rug out from under their season (mentally). I liken it to professional footballing cumulative PTSD. I dont believe enough is said about the impact of mates losing their career or long terms injuries on the rest of the group!

In summary I think Ratten is the right man for our club, but he needs to change the game plan and also needs some clean air with player availability.

I think at least Clarkson wouldn’t put up with the mediocrity week after week.

Where are Hawthorn on the ladder? Clarkson looks completely burnt out to me, he needs 12 months away from the game to refresh.

I don’t disagree
Think he needs a new challenge a new role
I’d give him charge of St Kildas football program in a Director role and yes Ratten too needs to listen to his feedback or he can GTFO
There is no bigger challenge in football than St Kikda if anyone with an ego wants to prove how good they are then challenge them to take the mantle abs give it a crack
Whoever lifts the sword from the St Kilda stone IMHO will go down as the GOAT

[Teflon]

Teflon I agree with your list management comments and our culture of mediocrity. Billings and Dunstan simply have to go we are going nowhere with those two playing - similiarly to Acres before he left. Also if we get a decent offer on Ross I believe he can be traded also. Membrey has had a really poor year, but we know he has another 2 levels to go to.

We have been non competitive in far too many games, in the main by teams who force us to turn the ball over. Ratten conceded the weaknesses last night and said there will need to be changes to the game plan at seasons end.

On Ratten v Clarkson, we really have to look at the soldiers we have had available. Clarkson hasnt looked any better than Ratten with Hawthorns current list, plus Ratten hasnt had a full fit list to chose from at any point this year. Most teams can carry a couple of key players out but not the number we have had out.

I believe losing a number of mates to long term concussions and other long term injuries has lead to an underlying mental fragility within the group. The Paton injury which was such a dumb act by an assistant coach was brutal and really pulled the rug out from under their season (mentally). I liken it to professional footballing cumulative PTSD. I dont believe enough is said about the impact of mates losing their career or long terms injuries on the rest of the group!

In summary I think Ratten is the right man for our club, but he needs to change the game plan and also needs some clean air with player availability.

Seriously? Ratten said there will be no changes to our game plan. Clarkson come on down.
F*** me. Keep on bombing it long to an outnumbered big guy Brett, then use guys like Butler, Kent and Higgins to kick the goals. It's so effective.

Just listened to presser must’ve been short version did Ratten say he will look at the game plan or not?

[cwrcyn]

Give Ratten a fit team and then see what he can do with it. We have been the hardest hit team in the competition for injuries and we've had the hardest draw. Look at the top four clubs. Hardly any injuries. Then look at Richmond the super team with the super coach. Lots of injuries and they've won the same number of games we have. Never underestimate the impact of injuries to key players, especially if it's constant and involves your better players

[axcellence]

Saints have a great leader. Hannebery- Shane that he still can’t get to the park.

you didn't think the weekend was bleak enough without mentioning that name?

Guess you're going to tell us we missed Lovett and Freeman's pace too?
The absolute idiocy of our trading knows no limits, it has been the greatest stuff up and continues on.

I can mention Bont, Petrecca, et al, but that’s another thread.