Ross Lyon after today

[Bunk_Moreland]

What Lyon did, in order to improve the defensive aspect of the team - was to reduce the offensive impact of these guys.

Contrary to popular belief, flag teams over the years have been littered with average players. What all flag teams have gas though, without exception - is superstars. We had that in spades, but I believe that in Lyon's flawed philosophy he believed that keeping the opposition's score low was worth sacrificing our ability to be offensive.

I don't think that has changed.

The stats don't bear this out. It is inferring that the Saints were a dower defensive slogging team when in fact they were pretty free scoring especially in 2009

Total points -

2009 - 2197 points

Ave 16.5 goals a game

2010 - 1934 points

Ave 14.65 goals a game

this was without Riewoldt for 12+ games

2014 - 1480

Average 11.21 goals a game

The 2009 total for would be the second best in 2014 only bettered by Hawthorn.

i think we beat up on all the poorer teams ..ot the top ones...nut don't quote me..i might be completly wrong...

Actually we were pretty even over the course of the year

We topped 100 12 times including the loss to Essendon

We scored 128 against Collingwood
104 against the Bulldogs
91 against Geelong

in our home and away.

2009 Saints were pretty heavy scores in 2009 H&A

We fell away pretty badly in the finals 80, 60 then 68

Actually scored 68 in then 2009 and 2010 GF's.

[saintbob]

WHY does this Bloke keep getting a mention on here????

Yes he was a very good coach for us as far as playing finals went, but f*** he left the club in an absolute train wreck!!!

So I really, really hope he fails again this week!!!

[plugger66]

WHY does this Bloke keep getting a mention on here????

Yes he was a very good coach for us as far as playing finals went, but f*** he left the club in an absolute train wreck!!!

So I really, really hope he fails again this week!!!

I would be blaming the club, not RL if its an issue because anyone who had their eyes open in the last couple of years he coached could see that was going to happen. And it was bloody worth the ride.

[saintbob]

WHY does this Bloke keep getting a mention on here????

Yes he was a very good coach for us as far as playing finals went, but f*** he left the club in an absolute train wreck!!!

So I really, really hope he fails again this week!!!

I would be blaming the club, not RL if its an issue because anyone who had their eyes open in the last couple of years he coached could see that was going to happen. And it was bloody worth the ride.

REALLY, if we'd one at least one premiership I'd probably agree.

But if you're happy to hang your hat on being the bridesmaid twice, then good for you!!!

[Scollop]

Kool aid anyone?

[stinger]

WHY does this Bloke keep getting a mention on here????

Yes he was a very good coach for us as far as playing finals went, but f*** he left the club in an absolute train wreck!!!

So I really, really hope he fails again this week!!!

I would be blaming the club, not RL if its an issue because anyone who had their eyes open in the last couple of years he coached could see that was going to happen. And it was bloody worth the ride.

REALLY, if we'd one at least one premiership I'd probably agree.

But if you're happy to hang your hat on being the bridesmaid twice, then good for you!!!

[plugger66]

WHY does this Bloke keep getting a mention on here????

Yes he was a very good coach for us as far as playing finals went, but f*** he left the club in an absolute train wreck!!!

So I really, really hope he fails again this week!!!

I would be blaming the club, not RL if its an issue because anyone who had their eyes open in the last couple of years he coached could see that was going to happen. And it was bloody worth the ride.

REALLY, if we'd one at least one premiership I'd probably agree.

But if you're happy to hang your hat on being the bridesmaid twice, then good for you!!!

Look i know we normally win flags quite a bit but even with the huge amount of flags we have won i still think it was worth it. We had clearly better lists in 2005 and 06 but never got there. By the way who were the great players we got back in those 2 years. The stuffing up of our list started well before RL arrived. Thats what people clearly fail to remember.

[saintbob]

WHY does this Bloke keep getting a mention on here????

Yes he was a very good coach for us as far as playing finals went, but f*** he left the club in an absolute train wreck!!!

So I really, really hope he fails again this week!!!

I would be blaming the club, not RL if its an issue because anyone who had their eyes open in the last couple of years he coached could see that was going to happen. And it was bloody worth the ride.

REALLY, if we'd one at least one premiership I'd probably agree.

But if you're happy to hang your hat on being the bridesmaid twice, then good for you!!!

Look i know we normally win flags quite a bit but even with the huge amount of flags we have won i still think it was worth it. We had clearly better lists in 2005 and 06 but never got there. By the way who were the great players we got back in those 2 years. The stuffing up of our list started well before RL arrived. Thats what people clearly fail to remember.

Well, let's see how long the the euphoria of finishing 2nd takes to rub off, when we don't play finals until 2018!!!

[plugger66]

WHY does this Bloke keep getting a mention on here????

Yes he was a very good coach for us as far as playing finals went, but f*** he left the club in an absolute train wreck!!!

So I really, really hope he fails again this week!!!

I would be blaming the club, not RL if its an issue because anyone who had their eyes open in the last couple of years he coached could see that was going to happen. And it was bloody worth the ride.

REALLY, if we'd one at least one premiership I'd probably agree.

But if you're happy to hang your hat on being the bridesmaid twice, then good for you!!!

Look i know we normally win flags quite a bit but even with the huge amount of flags we have won i still think it was worth it. We had clearly better lists in 2005 and 06 but never got there. By the way who were the great players we got back in those 2 years. The stuffing up of our list started well before RL arrived. Thats what people clearly fail to remember.

Well, let's see how long the the euphoria of finishing 2nd takes to rub off, when we don't play finals until 2018!!!

You did read what i said about the stuffing up of our list starting well and truely before RL got there. if anything his recruiting of older players got us to at least have a chance of winning the GF. There was no point in relying on the recruiting of young kids because they were failing for years. If as saints supporters we base good years on winning flags then I suggest 90% of saints supporters have never been happy. Unfortunately we follow a very unsuccessful sides if we base things on flags.

[Scollop]

The bloke may be a good game day coach but he failed under us and he blamed everyone except himself - do you get it?

First they tell you the club made the right decision to dump GT because he wasn't good enough after a few attempts, but we should have kept Lyon even though he failed after a few attempts. Yes Lyon got close, but a miss in finals doesn't earn you percentage!!

I agree that the club stuffed up with recruiting but they also stuffed up with the initial decision to derail the momentum of the playing group by sacking GT. The club continued to stuff up by following the messiah's flawed philosophy which has us in the predicament we are in now.

The logic is quite strange and they twist around some facts to suit the argument and then throw in a few opinions like 'we had a better list under GT.' That ol chestnut has been thrown around and debated on here many a time and there are different points of view based on how good or how ready some of the younger blokes were at that time compared to 5/6 years later when they were in their prime

[Con Gorozidis]

Since Ross Lyon started his 'genius' coaching career
The following coaches have won flags:

Clarkson (x2)
Mark Thompson
Mick Malthouse
Chris Scott
John Longmire

So hes not even top 5 in his generation.

People drink way too much Kool Aid and digest Ch7 Commentators way too much.

In Ch7-land every 3rd coach is a 'genius' and every 10th player is a 'superstar'.

[plugger66]

The bloke may be a good game day coach but he failed under us and he blamed everyone except himself - do you get it?

First they tell you the club made the right decision to dump GT because he wasn't good enough after a few attempts, but we should have kept Lyon even though he failed after a few attempts. Yes Lyon got close, but a miss in finals doesn't earn you percentage!!

I agree that the club stuffed up with recruiting but they also stuffed up with the initial decision to derail the momentum of the playing group by sacking GT. The club continued to stuff up by following the messiah's flawed philosophy which has us in the predicament we are in now.

The logic is quite strange and they twist around some facts to suit the argument and then throw in a few opinions like 'we had a better list under GT.' That ol chestnut has been thrown around and debated on here many a time and there are different points of view based on how good or how ready some of the younger blokes were at that time compared to 5/6 years later when they were in their prime

Strange that you dont rate RL but rate GT even though GT list had many players better. That maybe an opinion but it has many more legs than those thinking RL had the better list especially when those same people say players got games that werent up to it and even the names mentioned as replacements were just ordinary players at that time. Even stranger is those who are unbiased have RL way ahead of GT. By the way was GT wanted by any other clubs when he left?

I dont even understand your 2nd paragraph? What does that even mean? Seems to be made up rubbish and no fact at all. I know you will never answer a question that will prove how silly your arguement is about RL stuffing the list up but can you tell us all the stars GT got in his last 2 or 3 years of coaching. Its very sad that people have so much bias that they cant see any logic at all.

[plugger66]

Since Ross Lyon started his 'genius' coaching career
The following coaches have won flags:

Clarkson (x2)
Mark Thompson
Mick Malthouse
Chris Scott
John Longmire

So hes not even top 5 in his generation.

People drink way too much Kool Aid and digest Ch7 Commentators way too much.

In Ch7-land every 3rd coach is a 'genius' and every 10th player is a 'superstar'.

I looked and the only person who has called him a genius on this thread is you Con. You cant have a sensible conversation without overstating things to prove some sort of silly point that is completely illogical. genius. What a load of crap.

[Spinner]

I think for St Kilda fans to acknowledge RL, he'd have to finish -10. Imagine if he wasnt finishing top 2, let alone at Fremantle.



So back to the question to end all questions, if he isn't any good, why is he hated? You all should be so happy he left. Why do threads get made every time Freo lose a final? Imagine if there were no finals to lose!


Let's look at is like this for the very simple here.

Was St Kilda a better team before Lyon took over?

Was Freo a better team before Lyon took over?

I guess anyone could have coached Freo and St Kilda... Teams that feed on success.



Now to the OP - is he isn't any good, why is he hated, why do we want him to fail? Should be happy, shouldn't have to make threads for self validation!

And can someone tell saintbob exclamation marks are not the same as full stops. Yummy.

[Con Gorozidis]

Since Ross Lyon started his 'genius' coaching career
The following coaches have won flags:

Clarkson (x2)
Mark Thompson
Mick Malthouse
Chris Scott
John Longmire

So hes not even top 5 in his generation.

People drink way too much Kool Aid and digest Ch7 Commentators way too much.

In Ch7-land every 3rd coach is a 'genius' and every 10th player is a 'superstar'.

I looked and the only person who has called him a genius on this thread is you Con. You cant have a sensible conversation without overstating things to prove some sort of silly point that is completely illogical. genius. What a load of crap.

Have a girls look. We know you cant write - but apparently you cant read either. Once again you respond to my threads - once again you are completely wrong and worst of all once again you turn a thread into a personal slanging match where you are the instigator and protagonist. I know you think you are a big dog on campus here - but remember you are the spokesman for the lowest common denominator. You cant count, cant write and cant read. Now get back to the Boundary.



Re: Ross Lyon after today
Postby citywest » Sat 06 Sep 2014 6:31pm

Geez some of you on here make me sick. The guy is a genius full stop. We all should know this as St Kilda supporters. It was only unlucky/freak circumstances that stoped Lyon and us from winning 2 premierships in a row. Yes, that's right, back to back flags. He left us, so what? Why be bitter and wish bad luck on him? If you must know, he had lost a lot of money and his house actually as well. He had a chance to be paid double what he was being paid at the Saints. If any of us were in the same situation we would have all done the same.

e: Ross Lyon after today
Postby Johnny Member » Sat 06 Sep 2014 6:53pm

Yeah, this 'he gets teams into GFs so he's a genius' theory is flawed. Or at the very least - its highly debatable.


It could very, very easily be argued that he's taken over teams that were clearly on the cusp or on their way to challenging for success. In both situations, the teams he took on had superstars, had played finals, had high draft picks, and were very decent teams anyway.

It could be easily argued that in both cases, he has costs incredibly talented lists a flag.

[plugger66]

Since Ross Lyon started his 'genius' coaching career
The following coaches have won flags:

Clarkson (x2)
Mark Thompson
Mick Malthouse
Chris Scott
John Longmire

So hes not even top 5 in his generation.

People drink way too much Kool Aid and digest Ch7 Commentators way too much.

In Ch7-land every 3rd coach is a 'genius' and every 10th player is a 'superstar'.

I looked and the only person who has called him a genius on this thread is you Con. You cant have a sensible conversation without overstating things to prove some sort of silly point that is completely illogical. genius. What a load of crap.

Have a girls look. We know you cant write - but apparently you cant read either.

Re: Ross Lyon after today
Postby citywest » Sat 06 Sep 2014 6:31pm

Geez some of you on here make me sick. The guy is a genius full stop. We all should know this as St Kilda supporters. It was only unlucky/freak circumstances that stoped Lyon and us from winning 2 premierships in a row. Yes, that's right, back to back flags. He left us, so what? Why be bitter and wish bad luck on him? If you must know, he had lost a lot of money and his house actually as well. He had a chance to be paid double what he was being paid at the Saints. If any of us were in the same situation we would have all done the same.

e: Ross Lyon after today
Postby Johnny Member » Sat 06 Sep 2014 6:53pm

Yeah, this 'he gets teams into GFs so he's a genius' theory is flawed. Or at the very least - its highly debatable.


It could very, very easily be argued that he's taken over teams that were clearly on the cusp or on their way to challenging for success. In both situations, the teams he took on had superstars, had played finals, had high draft picks, and were very decent teams anyway.

It could be easily argued that in both cases, he has costs incredibly talented lists a flag.

Im stand corrected but in my defence i dont think citywest and the saints should be used in the same sentance. And yes it could be argued who has taken over teams on the brink of success but I would argue Freo were going no where fast and either were the Saints when he took over. I certainly wouldnt argue your last point because I think its rubbish. i dont think either list would have played in a GF without RL. And thanks for telling me i cant read and write. Coming from you that gives me hope that there is still hope. Anyway where is the next move Con? Im sure it must be soon. I havent been to Boundary for a while but may go there in a couple of weeks. Want to catch up for a beer if you are in town?

[gringo]

Since Ross Lyon started his 'genius' coaching career
The following coaches have won flags:

Clarkson (x2)
Mark Thompson
Mick Malthouse
Chris Scott
John Longmire

So hes not even top 5 in his generation.

People drink way too much Kool Aid and digest Ch7 Commentators way too much.

In Ch7-land every 3rd coach is a 'genius' and every 10th player is a 'superstar'.

I looked and the only person who has called him a genius on this thread is you Con. You cant have a sensible conversation without overstating things to prove some sort of silly point that is completely illogical. genius. What a load of crap.

Have a girls look. We know you cant write - but apparently you cant read either.

Re: Ross Lyon after today
Postby citywest » Sat 06 Sep 2014 6:31pm

Geez some of you on here make me sick. The guy is a genius full stop. We all should know this as St Kilda supporters. It was only unlucky/freak circumstances that stoped Lyon and us from winning 2 premierships in a row. Yes, that's right, back to back flags. He left us, so what? Why be bitter and wish bad luck on him? If you must know, he had lost a lot of money and his house actually as well. He had a chance to be paid double what he was being paid at the Saints. If any of us were in the same situation we would have all done the same.

e: Ross Lyon after today
Postby Johnny Member » Sat 06 Sep 2014 6:53pm

Yeah, this 'he gets teams into GFs so he's a genius' theory is flawed. Or at the very least - its highly debatable.


It could very, very easily be argued that he's taken over teams that were clearly on the cusp or on their way to challenging for success. In both situations, the teams he took on had superstars, had played finals, had high draft picks, and were very decent teams anyway.

It could be easily argued that in both cases, he has costs incredibly talented lists a flag.

Im stand corrected but in my defence i dont think citywest and the saints should be used in the same sentance. And yes it could be argued who has taken over teams on the brink of success but I would argue Freo were going no where fast and either were the Saints when he took over. I certainly wouldnt argue your last point because I think its rubbish. i dont think either list would have played in a GF without RL. And thanks for telling me i cant read and write. Coming from you that gives me hope that there is still hope. Anyway where is the next move Con? Im sure it must be soon. I havent been to Boundary for a while but may go there in a couple of weeks. Want to catch up for a beer if you are in town?

I don't think that's true. St Kilda made a prelim when GT was sacked didn't they? Hardly going nowhere. Freo were injury ravaged but had gone through a rebuild and before a bad year were getting momentum. The truth is he took over good lists but still got a lot out of them...nearly the ultimate prize on a few occasions. Can't say he isn't a talented coach. Just an ordinary person ethically.

[kosifantutti]

Facts are that Lyon was out coached and our team was outplayed in 2009/2010. The pattern emerged while he was at the Saints that his team struggled to kick goals in finals. We fell over the line against the Dogs in a final even though we comprehensively smashed them TWICE IN THE SAME YEAR in home and away.

Maybe you could do the same analysis for 2010.

We struggled to beat the Dogs during the year, then smashed them in the Prelim.
Collingwood smashed us in round 16, and we drew with them in the Grand Final
Geelong finished a game and a half ahead of us and were red hot favourites in the Qualifying final and we beat them.

[plugger66]

Since Ross Lyon started his 'genius' coaching career
The following coaches have won flags:

Clarkson (x2)
Mark Thompson
Mick Malthouse
Chris Scott
John Longmire

So hes not even top 5 in his generation.

People drink way too much Kool Aid and digest Ch7 Commentators way too much.

In Ch7-land every 3rd coach is a 'genius' and every 10th player is a 'superstar'.

I looked and the only person who has called him a genius on this thread is you Con. You cant have a sensible conversation without overstating things to prove some sort of silly point that is completely illogical. genius. What a load of crap.

Have a girls look. We know you cant write - but apparently you cant read either.

Re: Ross Lyon after today
Postby citywest » Sat 06 Sep 2014 6:31pm

Geez some of you on here make me sick. The guy is a genius full stop. We all should know this as St Kilda supporters. It was only unlucky/freak circumstances that stoped Lyon and us from winning 2 premierships in a row. Yes, that's right, back to back flags. He left us, so what? Why be bitter and wish bad luck on him? If you must know, he had lost a lot of money and his house actually as well. He had a chance to be paid double what he was being paid at the Saints. If any of us were in the same situation we would have all done the same.

e: Ross Lyon after today
Postby Johnny Member » Sat 06 Sep 2014 6:53pm

Yeah, this 'he gets teams into GFs so he's a genius' theory is flawed. Or at the very least - its highly debatable.


It could very, very easily be argued that he's taken over teams that were clearly on the cusp or on their way to challenging for success. In both situations, the teams he took on had superstars, had played finals, had high draft picks, and were very decent teams anyway.

It could be easily argued that in both cases, he has costs incredibly talented lists a flag.

Im stand corrected but in my defence i dont think citywest and the saints should be used in the same sentance. And yes it could be argued who has taken over teams on the brink of success but I would argue Freo were going no where fast and either were the Saints when he took over. I certainly wouldnt argue your last point because I think its rubbish. i dont think either list would have played in a GF without RL. And thanks for telling me i cant read and write. Coming from you that gives me hope that there is still hope. Anyway where is the next move Con? Im sure it must be soon. I havent been to Boundary for a while but may go there in a couple of weeks. Want to catch up for a beer if you are in town?

I don't think that's true. St Kilda made a prelim when GT was sacked didn't they? Hardly going nowhere. Freo were injury ravaged but had gone through a rebuild and before a bad year were getting momentum. The truth is he took over good lists but still got a lot out of them...nearly the ultimate prize on a few occasions. Can't say he isn't a talented coach. Just an ordinary person ethically.

We finished 8th in his last year after being 4th the previous year. Freo finished 11th and 6th. I dont anyone would argue he didnt take over good lists. i would argue those lists got the most out of them when coached by RL. Anyone possibly argues RL 2009 side was as good as the 2006 side has really got some issues with their memory.

[samoht]

The fact remains we were going downhill fast under RL post 2010, even with our strong lineup - and his time was up. We are still paying for his short-sightedness, but that's another story.
End of story.

[Spinner]

Facts are that Lyon was out coached and our team was outplayed in 2009/2010. The pattern emerged while he was at the Saints that his team struggled to kick goals in finals. We fell over the line against the Dogs in a final even though we comprehensively smashed them TWICE IN THE SAME YEAR in home and away.

Maybe you could do the same analysis for 2010.

We struggled to beat the Dogs during the year, then smashed them in the Prelim.
Collingwood smashed us in round 16, and we drew with them in the Grand Final
Geelong finished a game and a half ahead of us and were red hot favourites in the Qualifying final and we beat them.

Is that the same year Roo hurt his hamstring and was out for 3 months and we still drew a grand final?

Facts Scallop? Lol

[plugger66]

The fact remains we were going downhill fast under RL post 2010 - and his time was up. We are still paying for his short-sightedness, but that's another story.
Warne certainly doesn't rate RL.

Did he play under him? Rooy and lenny did. Who would you class as knowing more about RL. I still dont care that RL left because his time was just about up but I still dont see how he had shortsightness and GT didnt. We probably got better players under RL first 3 years than GT last 3 years. The problem was neither when it came to drafting young kids. That was clearly the recruiters issues.

[samoht]

Is there any chance of us picking up Fyfe and Barlow? - maybe that's what we should be discussing instead.

[SemperFidelis]

9 pages.

3 years on.

We all need some serious counselling.

[dragit]

9 pages.

3 years on.

We all need some serious counselling.

Amen.