Hi Cairnsman
You seem mostly worried by freedom of speech issues. I am not disagreeing with you on this matter, as I am an advocate of freedom of speech - but please read on.
I agree that the AFL cannot stop you (or anyone else) from using this site or any other medium you have access to - other forums, twitter, facebook etc to express your opinions. I have never said that you or anyone else do not have the right to write or say what you like, but whatever you say can have consequences to you and us.
Of course the consequences to the poster (as they retain post ownership) would be dependent on what criminal or civil breaches have occurred and who takes action.
What is of concern to Saintsational is that we are able to continue to exist and prosper, even after a poster posts something that breaches crimnal or civil laws.
First step of defence is the Saintsational rules - that is why we have rules, warnings and a banning system but it is designed (not by me) to create a harmonious forum and importantly the moderators have the right to edit, move or delete posts and this is essential to help ward off the possibility of the AFL taking action against us.
As such, any post has consequences in terms of warnings and bans for breaches - that bit is obvious!
Saintsational wishes to exist as is (with the continuing blessing of the AFL to exist and use their trademarked properties) without any interference HOWEVER they CAN take legal action to prevent our use of those trademarks IF and only IF a poster posts something that harms the AFL trademark or brand and they can effectively close us down. We could exist but the site would (a) have to change our name to not use "Saints" in reference to an Australian Football League team, we would have to remove all imagery that uses the St.Kilda logo, St.Kilda colours, St.Kilda jumper in reference to Australian Football League and whilst we could potentially all write in code - we would not be able to continue use the trademarked terms St.Kilda Football Club, St.Kilda, Saints or St.Kilda Saints in posts on this forum (whatever it is to be called) in reference to the Australian Football League, nor would be able to use the AFL owned trademarks of the other 17 clubs (not that we ever refer to another club by their trademarked name) - and lets be honest we would ALL stop posting and coming to this forum if that was the case - such an action by the AFL would kill this forum, BUT only if they were provoked into doing it. Quite clearly this doomsday scenario faced by other forums and a facebook site is not one we would like to invite.
If you do not agree that the AFL has this power (despite me showing you three examples where they have exercised this power in the past) then you are welcome to hold that opinion, but until you provide legal qualified opinion that proves this to be wrong, it is my intention as administrator to tread carefully and do my best to not provide the AFL with any reason to take such action against Saintsational. The scary part is that we cannot control what a poster may post - so we are still vulnerable.
Essentially this is why we have rules. This is why the moderators have the right to edit and delete posts. I think that this discussion highlights for me that we should take additional steps to further protect the site from the actions of a rogue poster who may post something that potentially harms the AFL and their trademarks.
In conclusion
- anyone can post anything here (so there is some freedom of speech - within the boundaries of law of defamation, cyber-bullying etc)
- the AFL allows us to use their trademarks as an act of goodwill to fans - we are not licensed to use them, nor are we an accredited media outlet
- the moderators can edit, move delete (for harmony and to hopefully protect the site in the best interest of the site from any legal action)
- if we caused a media stir e.g. if a violent act occurred as a result of cyber-bullying on Saintsational, the AFL would act swiftly to remove our ability to use trademarks
- if we were unable to use the AFL trademarks - this site would lose appeal to posters and readers and die (especially as there so many alternative sites available)
As a final set of questions to you:
- what exactly are you proposing as an alternative?
- what Saintsational Rules do you want abolished?
- what do you want put in place to protect us from the AFL taking action against us?
- how do you propose we exist without trademarks (voluntarily now or if forced in the future)?
I look forward to your further input.
Simon
p.s How much should I be asking from the AFL? I just want to see if I low-balled myself when they came a calling for me to be their imperialist puppet!
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AwayInUSA no longer ... have based myself back in Melbourne for a decade of Saintsational Success (with regular trips back to the USA)
"Saintsational Player Sponsor 2007 - 2018"