I'm torn...
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Re: I'm torn...
we could win 4 of that next six if we were redhot
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.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
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Re: I'm torn...
but out on our feet.
Men against boys in reality i'd a thought
Men against boys in reality i'd a thought
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.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
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Re: I'm torn...
Thats unfair!kosifantutti wrote:Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.
Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....
“Yeah….nah””
Re: I'm torn...
There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.Teflon wrote:Thats unfair!kosifantutti wrote:Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.
Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....
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Re: I'm torn...
Well said Wind!WindSister wrote:... and there endeth the Lesson.Us poorer clubs MUST make use of the system - the draft has served very well in the past to suggest not using it to our advantage isn't a plank in a long term strategy is ignorant and dumb
Thank you ball boys and lamingtons.
“Yeah….nah””
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Re: I'm torn...
Oh I agree there isnt any.plugger66 wrote:There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.Teflon wrote:Thats unfair!kosifantutti wrote:Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.
Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....
Most sides have top end talent thats nothing new - the question is do they have enough and how best do you get it?
Do we have enough A grade talent now?
“Yeah….nah””
Re: I'm torn...
Teflon wrote:plugger66 wrote:There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.Teflon wrote:Oh I agree there isnt any.kosifantutti wrote:Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.
Most sides have top end talent thats nothing new - the question is do they have enough and how best do you get it?
Thats unfair!
Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....
The best way to get it is to try every single game and then see where you finish. Hoping to lose or not care if you win just means you should fast forward your life until you hope and want to win every single game we play in.
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Re: I'm torn...
I am but you get the pointBunk_Moreland wrote:You are being purposely obtuse.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
For a start we wont finish 9th, more like 14th or 15th at best.
secondly, as P66 noted it isnt finances but SC.We used 95% of SC this year and with the new rules we can use that extra 5% thereby having 105% of the SC to be used next season.
This means we will 500k more than a 100% SC users of this year to use, and more than a million we used this year.
This means we can target OOC's and FA's with that money and also pick up a top 5 first rounder.
Dont know why this is so hard to understand. Seems crystal clear that this is what the strategy is.
Besides, you left off any mention of financial impacts OFF field and the effect this has on development of young talent (do we need to really ask about how long its taken us to scrape enough coins together to field a stand alone VFL team?) and the further impact this could have on developing young talent taken later in a draft who were obviously ranked lower for a reason...
Or is that not impacted by being a 'poor' club?
“Yeah….nah””
Re: I'm torn...
Teflon wrote:I am but you get the pointBunk_Moreland wrote:You are being purposely obtuse.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
For a start we wont finish 9th, more like 14th or 15th at best.
secondly, as P66 noted it isnt finances but SC.We used 95% of SC this year and with the new rules we can use that extra 5% thereby having 105% of the SC to be used next season.
This means we will 500k more than a 100% SC users of this year to use, and more than a million we used this year.
This means we can target OOC's and FA's with that money and also pick up a top 5 first rounder.
Dont know why this is so hard to understand. Seems crystal clear that this is what the strategy is.
Besides, you left off any mention of financial impacts OFF field and the effect this has on development of young talent (do we need to really ask about how long its taken us to scrape enough coins together to field a stand alone VFL team?) and the further impact this could have on developing young talent taken later in a draft who were obviously ranked lower for a reason...
Or is that not impacted by being a 'poor' club?
Hawks and Box Hill.
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Re: I'm torn...
Does the current system reward you for trying very hard weekly to win every game to finish as high as you can in drafting young talent? (this is a y/n type q)plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:plugger66 wrote:There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.Teflon wrote:Oh I agree there isnt any.kosifantutti wrote:Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.
Most sides have top end talent thats nothing new - the question is do they have enough and how best do you get it?
Thats unfair!
Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....
The best way to get it is to try every single game and then see where you finish. Hoping to lose or not care if you win just means you should fast forward your life until you hope and want to win every single game we play in.
Id have thought a better strategy is to acknowledge where you are right now (forget the fanciful 'we will fight on the beaches and never surrender' hyerbole), maximise an inevitable bottoming out period (which we are in) with a view to using the system to as much advantage as you can get from it by taking the highest available draft selection/choice that you are able to get your hands on for a limited period...
Anyway, genuine question: are priority picks completely finished off the table?
“Yeah….nah””
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Re: I'm torn...
Choice or foisted upon them by financial impacts?plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:I am but you get the pointBunk_Moreland wrote:You are being purposely obtuse.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
For a start we wont finish 9th, more like 14th or 15th at best.
secondly, as P66 noted it isnt finances but SC.We used 95% of SC this year and with the new rules we can use that extra 5% thereby having 105% of the SC to be used next season.
This means we will 500k more than a 100% SC users of this year to use, and more than a million we used this year.
This means we can target OOC's and FA's with that money and also pick up a top 5 first rounder.
Dont know why this is so hard to understand. Seems crystal clear that this is what the strategy is.
Besides, you left off any mention of financial impacts OFF field and the effect this has on development of young talent (do we need to really ask about how long its taken us to scrape enough coins together to field a stand alone VFL team?) and the further impact this could have on developing young talent taken later in a draft who were obviously ranked lower for a reason...
Or is that not impacted by being a 'poor' club?
Hawks and Box Hill.
Do you think the Saints are choosing NOT to field a VFL team or is the decision more financial?
You see, a chosen decision/strategy is different to no choice....
“Yeah….nah””
Re: I'm torn...
PP are still on the table but it has to be extraordinary circumstances so yes they are basically off the table. And yes the current system slightly helps if you finish lower. I also think winning helps as well but that cant be measured. We aren't going to win 19 games. We may win win 6 so we may finish between 16th and 14th. I would love to finish 14th.Teflon wrote:Does the current system reward you for trying very hard weekly to win every game to finish as high as you can in drafting young talent? (this is a y/n type q)plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:plugger66 wrote:There probably isn't any and we also now have top end talent.Teflon wrote:Oh I agree there isnt any.kosifantutti wrote:Not a great example, Fyfe was pick 20.Teflon wrote:So finish 9th and use our extensive off field development $$ aka Pies and co to transform Josh Saunders into Fyfe??MC Gusto wrote:Great post joff you've hit the nail
Of course losing doesn't hurt as much at the moment because it doesn't cost as much; it is essentially a lot less important. What is important and always will be is winning. Tanking is f***ed and proven time and time again not to work. Sides that learn to win during their development periods inevitably become successful teams
I do not buy in to the need to finish bottom or near enough to guarantee picks. There is literally nothing guaranteed about the numbers you pick at... Good drafting (and a bit of luck) will secure great players at any number - including rookie drafts!
I would never hope or advocate for a loss no matter the circumstance.
I see..
But maybe we could turn Josh Bruce into Jack Watts.
Most sides have top end talent thats nothing new - the question is do they have enough and how best do you get it?
Thats unfair!
Certainly better example than some list of Premierships teams and last wooden spoons and some non-apparent tenuous link to culture...anyway
That aside Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides without top end draft talent....
The best way to get it is to try every single game and then see where you finish. Hoping to lose or not care if you win just means you should fast forward your life until you hope and want to win every single game we play in.
Id have thought a better strategy is to acknowledge where you are right now (forget the fanciful 'we will fight on the beaches and never surrender' hyerbole), maximise an inevitable bottoming out period (which we are in) with a view to using the system to as much advantage as you can get from it by taking the highest available draft selection/choice that you are able to get your hands on for a limited period...
Anyway, genuine question: are priority picks completely finished off the table?
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Re: I'm torn...
So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
I might add too that there is a link here in the strategy and our financial situation and that IMO is we dont have the cash to splash on development others do - it is not guaranteed (nothing in life is) but I would like my chances much better in developing a top 5 draft choice over anything much later, after all there is a reason they have a draft order..
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
I might add too that there is a link here in the strategy and our financial situation and that IMO is we dont have the cash to splash on development others do - it is not guaranteed (nothing in life is) but I would like my chances much better in developing a top 5 draft choice over anything much later, after all there is a reason they have a draft order..
Last edited by Teflon on Thu 04 Jun 2015 10:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Yeah….nah””
Re: I'm torn...
Teflon wrote:So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.
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Re: I'm torn...
Is it really fantasy?plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.
If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?
I'll take Buddy thanks.
“Yeah….nah””
Re: I'm torn...
Or we could use numbers that are actually correct and say Griffin is pick 3 and Frankllin is pick 5. And I agree I will take Buddy anytime.Teflon wrote:Is it really fantasy?plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.
If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?
I'll take Buddy thanks.
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Re: I'm torn...
yes, yes we could but again that would be playing semantics when the REAL point was all about what the AFL draft system is currently designed to do - provide lower finishing sides priority choices. THATS what were talking about in terms of benefit.plugger66 wrote:Or we could use numbers that are actually correct and say Griffin is pick 3 and Frankllin is pick 5. And I agree I will take Buddy anytime.Teflon wrote:Is it really fantasy?plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.
If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?
I'll take Buddy thanks.
But yes we can play 'change the names of the players' but I think youre smart enough to get it.
“Yeah….nah””
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Re: I'm torn...
We're top of the bottom rung of teams.
Can anyone realistically see us finishing higher than were we currently are on the ladder?
No risk of us finishing mid table somewhere like 9th which to many is the place of dead roads.
So worse case scenario is pick 5 in the draft.
So the baseline isn't finishing 9th v 18th. It's 14th v 18th and the draft results are reasonably random.
Does anyone really think that the idea of "lets keep losing until we're ready to climb the ladder" really work? I don't think so.
I do agree that we may need to keep manufacturing additional and lower picks but it is getting harder to do this each year. We'll have to give up something for that to happen and I'm not channeling what's his face either.
Can anyone realistically see us finishing higher than were we currently are on the ladder?
No risk of us finishing mid table somewhere like 9th which to many is the place of dead roads.
So worse case scenario is pick 5 in the draft.
So the baseline isn't finishing 9th v 18th. It's 14th v 18th and the draft results are reasonably random.
Does anyone really think that the idea of "lets keep losing until we're ready to climb the ladder" really work? I don't think so.
I do agree that we may need to keep manufacturing additional and lower picks but it is getting harder to do this each year. We'll have to give up something for that to happen and I'm not channeling what's his face either.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
Re: I'm torn...
But it is you that keep using emotive names like Fyffe and Franklin when they aren't the right names to use.Teflon wrote:yes, yes we could but again that would be playing semantics when the REAL point was all about what the AFL draft system is currently designed to do - provide lower finishing sides priority choices. THATS what were talking about in terms of benefit.plugger66 wrote:Or we could use numbers that are actually correct and say Griffin is pick 3 and Frankllin is pick 5. And I agree I will take Buddy anytime.Teflon wrote:Is it really fantasy?plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.
If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?
I'll take Buddy thanks.
But yes we can play 'change the names of the players' but I think youre smart enough to get it.
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Re: I'm torn...
How much has the game and recruiting changed since 2004? Richmond had one recruiter back then.
We're a struggling club and we probably have 6 recruiters now. Clubs have pumped more money and resources into recruiting but there are diminishing returns.
How many top GWS and GC top pick are struggling at the moment?
We're a struggling club and we probably have 6 recruiters now. Clubs have pumped more money and resources into recruiting but there are diminishing returns.
How many top GWS and GC top pick are struggling at the moment?
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- Saintsational Legend
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Re: I'm torn...
Ok lets play.plugger66 wrote:But it is you that keep using emotive names like Fyffe and Franklin when they aren't the right names to use.Teflon wrote:yes, yes we could but again that would be playing semantics when the REAL point was all about what the AFL draft system is currently designed to do - provide lower finishing sides priority choices. THATS what were talking about in terms of benefit.plugger66 wrote:Or we could use numbers that are actually correct and say Griffin is pick 3 and Frankllin is pick 5. And I agree I will take Buddy anytime.Teflon wrote:Is it really fantasy?plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.
If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?
I'll take Buddy thanks.
But yes we can play 'change the names of the players' but I think youre smart enough to get it.
Remove all names and replace said names with words 'insert higher draft choice'
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- Saintsational Legend
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Re: I'm torn...
GC /GWS are manufactured environments and as we know so much more in developing talentSaintPav wrote:How much has the game and recruiting changed since 2004? Richmond had one recruiter back then.
We're a struggling club and we probably have 6 recruiters now. Clubs have pumped more money and resources into recruiting but there are diminishing returns.
How many top GWS and GC top pick are struggling at the moment?
That said.....GC have had some injuries (not an excuse for their whole year) but GWS arent going too badly.....
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Re: I'm torn...
So you agree we will continue to need lower picks but would rather we give up something to get them?SaintPav wrote:We're top of the bottom rung of teams.
Can anyone realistically see us finishing higher than were we currently are on the ladder?
No risk of us finishing mid table somewhere like 9th which to many is the place of dead roads.
So worse case scenario is pick 5 in the draft.
So the baseline isn't finishing 9th v 18th. It's 14th v 18th and the draft results are reasonably random.
Does anyone really think that the idea of "lets keep losing until we're ready to climb the ladder" really work? I don't think so.
I do agree that we may need to keep manufacturing additional and lower picks but it is getting harder to do this each year. We'll have to give up something for that to happen and I'm not channeling what's his face either.
I think I'll take my chances with the short term pain now.
Is a rise up the ladder guaranteed for anyone? no.
Can we have pick 1 and stuff it up? yes.
Should we get ourselves the highest choice available while we are losing games? IMHO yes as its the only benefit this current shytty system offers.Take it, choose wisely and cross everything that the draft gods serve up another Judd, Ball, Hodge year.....
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Re: I'm torn...
Fiora was a pick 3 and Buddy was a pick 5. Richmond selected Tambling before BuddyTeflon wrote:Is it really fantasy?plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.
If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?
I'll take Buddy thanks.
You are garbage - Enough said
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Re: I'm torn...
Hi BunkBunk_Moreland wrote:Fiora was a pick 3 and Buddy was a pick 5. Richmond selected Tambling before BuddyTeflon wrote:Is it really fantasy?plugger66 wrote:Teflon wrote:So you feel by finishing 2 places higher this year it will be that siginificant culturally to our climb up the ladder in 3-4years time ?
You see, I dont think anyone will even remember it.
IF we finish 14th as opposed to 16th and because of draft order/selection and miss out on an absolute gun for the next decade.....I think people will remember that...
Regardless, I agree with you....the current system does help you for finishing lower and any supposed benefit by winning short term arent measurable (and IMHO not all that long lasting...). Its a bit like getting all pumped up for milestone games but as Ross Lyon used to say.....once you cross the line that emotion last 2 minutes and isnt ultimately what decides whether you win or lose.
Missing out on a gun player cause for some non measurable benefit you decide finishing 14th over 16th was a better solution...that can have lasting on field impacts...
No I don't think it will really help in the future but I don't want to wait 3 years to see if it helps in the future to lose games like last Sunday. That would be plainly silly. Its really a bit of fantasy to think pick 3 will change our future but pick 5 wont.
If pick 3 is Buddy Franklin and pick 5 is Fiora and having a higher selection in the draft means you get that choice before those later.......is that really fantasy? or is that simply just the system we operate in and therefore, for some short term non measurable self gratification we beat up lowly Brisbane, is that really smart, long term strategic thinking to help us get to our ultimate aim which isnt to be just competitive - its to win premierships?
I'll take Buddy thanks.
Mighr be worth reading back a few posts.
The point here is about ultimateky what benefit the AFL draft system provides for finishing lower. That benefit is choice.
It doesnt guarantee Buddy or Tambling. It guarantees choice and between first choice and a later choice I'll take first everytime.
Can that be stuffed up at selection? yes.
Not the point though.
Lets put this anotjher way - is 5th pick in the draft better than 1st?, 2nd?....?why?
“Yeah….nah””