Don't blame Lyon

[matrix]

imo?

i think lovett stuffed up plugger
and that no one else is too blame

[Dr Spaceman]

Fair dinkum the way some people go on it's as if the Saints are the only club that doesn't recruit a star player with every pick in every draft. It's always a lottery. There are plenty of early picks at all clubs that don't make it just as there are plenty of late picks at clubs that turn out ok. That's the nature of the beast. With the benefit of hindsight to say a club, or a coach of a club, stuffed up because we recruited someone, or didn't recruit someone, is really a waste of time.

[rodgerfox]

f*** me, I can't believe the ignorance and stupidity of some people.


Thomas borrowed money off Butterss.

Thomas believed/claimed it to be an interest free loan, whereas Butterss wanted interest.

That was the argument. It wasn't about paying it back or not - it was about whether or not it was an interest free loan.

Fairly massive difference, one would think.


Fair dinkum.

How much of the principle was paid back before the court proceedings?

Don't know, don't care.

Irrelevant.

[rodgerfox]

f*** me, I can't believe the ignorance and stupidity of some people.


Thomas borrowed money off Butterss.

Thomas believed/claimed it to be an interest free loan, whereas Butterss wanted interest.

That was the argument. It wasn't about paying it back or not - it was about whether or not it was an interest free loan.

Fairly massive difference, one would think.


Fair dinkum.

How much of the principle was paid back before the court proceedings?

Zero, and I believe that was partly the reason Butters launched the court action?
Not only was GT denying there was to be any interest, he was also apparently claiming that there was no agreement on when he was required to pay back the principle loan either.

So once again rodger/stool has managed to offer only a partial answer. Then again should we really expect more from this particular poster.

But I suppose it allowed him to use his favourite term which he's seemingly been angling for an opportunity to use over the past couple of days.

What the hell??

Perhaps you should go back and read what we were talking about, and why.

[Mr Magic]

f*** me, I can't believe the ignorance and stupidity of some people.


Thomas borrowed money off Butterss.

Thomas believed/claimed it to be an interest free loan, whereas Butterss wanted interest.

That was the argument. It wasn't about paying it back or not - it was about whether or not it was an interest free loan.

Fairly massive difference, one would think.


Fair dinkum.

How much of the principle was paid back before the court proceedings?

Zero, and I believe that was partly the reason Butters launched the court action?
Not only was GT denying there was to be any interest, he was also apparently claiming that there was no agreement on when he was required to pay back the principle loan either.

So once again rodger/stool has managed to offer only a partial answer. Then again should we really expect more from this particular poster.

But I suppose it allowed him to use his favourite term which he's seemingly been angling for an opportunity to use over the past couple of days.

What the hell??

Perhaps you should go back and read what we were talking about, and why.

Excellent, here we go again.
The 'always misread and misunderstood' rodger/stool.


You obviously haven't sought that professional medical help yet.
Or did you and it just hasn't worked yet?

So sad that an adult would have the pathological need to try and manipulate others on a football fan forum.

[barks4eva]

f*** me, I can't believe the ignorance and stupidity of some people.


Thomas borrowed money off Butterss.

Thomas believed/claimed it to be an interest free loan, whereas Butterss wanted interest.

That was the argument. It wasn't about paying it back or not - it was about whether or not it was an interest free loan.

Fairly massive difference, one would think.


Fair dinkum.

How much of the principle was paid back before the court proceedings?

Zero, and I believe that was partly the reason Butters launched the court action?
Not only was GT denying there was to be any interest, he was also apparently claiming that there was no agreement on when he was required to pay back the principle loan either.

So once again rodger/stool has managed to offer only a partial answer. Then again should we really expect more from this particular poster.

But I suppose it allowed him to use his favourite term which he's seemingly been angling for an opportunity to use over the past couple of days.

My understanding is and I'm obviously not privy to all the information,


Butters claimed to have lent the money to Thomas for a down payment on his, at the time newly acquired house!

Thomas claimed the money was an investment by Butterss into one of his business schemes that went sour and the money had vanished.

That's what I heard at the time.

[Mr Magic]

f*** me, I can't believe the ignorance and stupidity of some people.


Thomas borrowed money off Butterss.

Thomas believed/claimed it to be an interest free loan, whereas Butterss wanted interest.

That was the argument. It wasn't about paying it back or not - it was about whether or not it was an interest free loan.

Fairly massive difference, one would think.


Fair dinkum.

How much of the principle was paid back before the court proceedings?

Zero, and I believe that was partly the reason Butters launched the court action?
Not only was GT denying there was to be any interest, he was also apparently claiming that there was no agreement on when he was required to pay back the principle loan either.

So once again rodger/stool has managed to offer only a partial answer. Then again should we really expect more from this particular poster.

But I suppose it allowed him to use his favourite term which he's seemingly been angling for an opportunity to use over the past couple of days.

My understanding is and I'm obviously not privy to all the information,


Butters claimed to have lent the money to Thomas for a down payment on his, at the time newly acquired house!

Thomas claimed the money was an investment by Butterss into one of his business schemes that went sour and the money had vanished.

That's what I heard at the time.

You are a liar!
Thought I'd get it in before rodger/stool.

[JMsainter]

What a farce this thread has become. Lyon is to blame. The club is going backwards. Really? Cannot believe the egotistical pissing comps by some people and the s*** stirring from others.

This club is in better shape than it's ever been. To say we are going backwards is just stoopid. But I suspect some posters don't really care about this club and just like flexing their pathetic egos.

Rod and Grant are gone. To compare squads is af arce. Best you compare the admins of both eras. No arguing. A 1st class footy department and ditto the fitness team. Would never have happened under the other 2. Although Rod did move in the right direction once Pinochet was deposed.

People talk about our rise under Grant as some sort of miracle. Wake up and smell the coffee. It would have happened anyway given the low draft picks. Then some of you have the audacity to compare us with Richmond.

that's even more stoopid because Wallace did not have a support team of Burke, Harvey, Frankie, Sammy, Max and Sammy to help him. No comparison. Try again. Grant saved a a team from the despair that he and Rod put there with the Blight fiasco.

[HarveysDeciple]

Rodger is the master of saying something, then when called on it, pulling out the "But I never said that at all" argument.

Works like clockwork.

[rodgerfox]

Rodger is the master of saying something, then when called on it, pulling out the "But I never said that at all" argument.

Works like clockwork.

If it was that easy, someone, anyone, would be able to simply point out where I said these things.

But as usual, no one can.

If I said it, it would be in print. Easily readable, and even more easily copied and pasted.

So if you think I said something, and I dispute it - then simply find where I said it, and copy it.

It's that simple.



It's equally as simple why no one can ever do this.

[rodgerfox]

What a farce this thread has become. Lyon is to blame. The club is going backwards. Really? Cannot believe the egotistical pissing comps by some people and the s*** stirring from others.

This club is in better shape than it's ever been. To say we are going backwards is just stoopid. But I suspect some posters don't really care about this club and just like flexing their pathetic egos.

Rod and Grant are gone. To compare squads is af arce. Best you compare the admins of both eras. No arguing. A 1st class footy department and ditto the fitness team. Would never have happened under the other 2. Although Rod did move in the right direction once Pinochet was deposed.

People talk about our rise under Grant as some sort of miracle. Wake up and smell the coffee. It would have happened anyway given the low draft picks. Then some of you have the audacity to compare us with Richmond.

that's even more stoopid because Wallace did not have a support team of Burke, Harvey, Frankie, Sammy, Max and Sammy to help him. No comparison. Try again. Grant saved a a team from the despair that he and Rod put there with the Blight fiasco.

Classic post.

[Milton66]

Rodger is the master of saying something, then when called on it, pulling out the "But I never said that at all" argument.

Works like clockwork.

If it was that easy, someone, anyone, would be able to simply point out where I said these things.

But as usual, no one can.

If I said it, it would be in print. Easily readable, and even more easily copied and pasted.

So if you think I said something, and I dispute it - then simply find where I said it, and copy it.

It's that simple.



It's equally as simple why no one can ever do this.

Um, I think I actually did this a while back when you commented on the apparent "mistakes" made by Lyon.

As soon as we called you on this, you changed your story and the context behind the comments as per usual.

Maybe that's why no one bothers anymore.

It's even simpler if you just go away.

[JMsainter]

What a farce this thread has become. Lyon is to blame. The club is going backwards. Really? Cannot believe the egotistical pissing comps by some people and the s*** stirring from others.

This club is in better shape than it's ever been. To say we are going backwards is just stoopid. But I suspect some posters don't really care about this club and just like flexing their pathetic egos.

Rod and Grant are gone. To compare squads is af arce. Best you compare the admins of both eras. No arguing. A 1st class footy department and ditto the fitness team. Would never have happened under the other 2. Although Rod did move in the right direction once Pinochet was deposed.

People talk about our rise under Grant as some sort of miracle. Wake up and smell the coffee. It would have happened anyway given the low draft picks. Then some of you have the audacity to compare us with Richmond.

that's even more stoopid because Wallace did not have a support team of Burke, Harvey, Frankie, Sammy, Max and Sammy to help him. No comparison. Try again. Grant saved a a team from the despair that he and Rod put there with the Blight fiasco.

Classic post.

Are you agreeing with me? You're the one who said we were going backwards, did you not?

[Milton66]

What a farce this thread has become. Lyon is to blame. The club is going backwards. Really? Cannot believe the egotistical pissing comps by some people and the s*** stirring from others.

This club is in better shape than it's ever been. To say we are going backwards is just stoopid. But I suspect some posters don't really care about this club and just like flexing their pathetic egos.

Rod and Grant are gone. To compare squads is af arce. Best you compare the admins of both eras. No arguing. A 1st class footy department and ditto the fitness team. Would never have happened under the other 2. Although Rod did move in the right direction once Pinochet was deposed.

People talk about our rise under Grant as some sort of miracle. Wake up and smell the coffee. It would have happened anyway given the low draft picks. Then some of you have the audacity to compare us with Richmond.

that's even more stoopid because Wallace did not have a support team of Burke, Harvey, Frankie, Sammy, Max and Sammy to help him. No comparison. Try again. Grant saved a a team from the despair that he and Rod put there with the Blight fiasco.

Classic post.

Are you agreeing with me? You're the one who said we were going backwards, did you not?

He's probably taking the p1ss out of you JM.

[rodgerfox]

Rodger is the master of saying something, then when called on it, pulling out the "But I never said that at all" argument.

Works like clockwork.

If it was that easy, someone, anyone, would be able to simply point out where I said these things.

But as usual, no one can.

If I said it, it would be in print. Easily readable, and even more easily copied and pasted.

So if you think I said something, and I dispute it - then simply find where I said it, and copy it.

It's that simple.



It's equally as simple why no one can ever do this.

Um, I think I actually did this a while back when you commented on the apparent "mistakes" made by Lyon.

As soon as we called you on this, you changed your story and the context behind the comments as per usual.

Maybe that's why no one bothers anymore.

It's even simpler if you just go away.

Nonsense.

Absolute nonsense. Lies even.


And funnily enough, what I said at the time turned to be exactly, precisely correct.

[rodgerfox]

What a farce this thread has become. Lyon is to blame. The club is going backwards. Really? Cannot believe the egotistical pissing comps by some people and the s*** stirring from others.

This club is in better shape than it's ever been. To say we are going backwards is just stoopid. But I suspect some posters don't really care about this club and just like flexing their pathetic egos.

Rod and Grant are gone. To compare squads is af arce. Best you compare the admins of both eras. No arguing. A 1st class footy department and ditto the fitness team. Would never have happened under the other 2. Although Rod did move in the right direction once Pinochet was deposed.

People talk about our rise under Grant as some sort of miracle. Wake up and smell the coffee. It would have happened anyway given the low draft picks. Then some of you have the audacity to compare us with Richmond.

that's even more stoopid because Wallace did not have a support team of Burke, Harvey, Frankie, Sammy, Max and Sammy to help him. No comparison. Try again. Grant saved a a team from the despair that he and Rod put there with the Blight fiasco.

Classic post.

Are you agreeing with me? You're the one who said we were going backwards, did you not?

I just thought the first line was funny, when you followed it up with the exact same stuff that your first line condemned.

You'll fit right in here.

[Milton66]

Rodger is the master of saying something, then when called on it, pulling out the "But I never said that at all" argument.

Works like clockwork.

If it was that easy, someone, anyone, would be able to simply point out where I said these things.

But as usual, no one can.

If I said it, it would be in print. Easily readable, and even more easily copied and pasted.

So if you think I said something, and I dispute it - then simply find where I said it, and copy it.

It's that simple.



It's equally as simple why no one can ever do this.

Um, I think I actually did this a while back when you commented on the apparent "mistakes" made by Lyon.

As soon as we called you on this, you changed your story and the context behind the comments as per usual.

Maybe that's why no one bothers anymore.

It's even simpler if you just go away.

Nonsense.

Absolute nonsense. Lies even.


And funnily enough, what I said at the time turned to be exactly, precisely correct.

Actually, no. You never actually named the mistakes. See this is where you are prone to factual lapses.

So are you saying that you predicted the recruiting and subsequent failure of Lovett? Or that Lyon would keep Ball on the bench? Wow, take a bow nostradamus.

Both Magic and I quoted you verbatim and you still could not name these mistakes. Luckily you don't care what others think because you are seriously embarrasing yourself on this one.

Please feel free to refresh us with what you aid at the time. Go on, you're the one struggling for some cred.

Millie- 3
RF - 0

[Teflon]

What a farce this thread has become. Lyon is to blame. The club is going backwards. Really? Cannot believe the egotistical pissing comps by some people and the s*** stirring from others.

This club is in better shape than it's ever been. To say we are going backwards is just stoopid. But I suspect some posters don't really care about this club and just like flexing their pathetic egos.

Rod and Grant are gone. To compare squads is af arce. Best you compare the admins of both eras. No arguing. A 1st class footy department and ditto the fitness team. Would never have happened under the other 2. Although Rod did move in the right direction once Pinochet was deposed.

People talk about our rise under Grant as some sort of miracle. Wake up and smell the coffee. It would have happened anyway given the low draft picks. Then some of you have the audacity to compare us with Richmond.

that's even more stoopid because Wallace did not have a support team of Burke, Harvey, Frankie, Sammy, Max and Sammy to help him. No comparison. Try again. Grant saved a a team from the despair that he and Rod put there with the Blight fiasco.

Classic post.

Are you agreeing with me? You're the one who said we were going backwards, did you not?

I just thought the first line was funny, when you followed it up with the exact same stuff that your first line condemned.

Oh you mean the facts?

I see why that makes you nervous Dodgy.....

I don't want the mods to ban you though......I kinda like having a pet Dodgy....

[Quixote]

LIES!

[saintsRrising]

a million????

blimey im missing some serious goss here

RB loaned GT $1 million (when they will still mates) so that GT could aquire his mansion...

But later GT was not that willing to pay it back (after they were no longer mates)....hence the legal action by RB on this.

Nice lies.

True to form which is good to see.

So straight off RF's own keyboard...GT tells nice lies and is true to form....and RF reckons this is admirable.


Way to go RF...but don't you think you are a tad harsh Dodgey?

[barks4eva]

And funnily enough, what I said at the time turned to be exactly, precisely correct.

You wrote that because we sacked Thomas, we would not be a realistic premiership chance until after 2011!

WRONG!

[bozza1980]

What a farce this thread has become. Lyon is to blame. The club is going backwards. Really? Cannot believe the egotistical pissing comps by some people and the s*** stirring from others.

This club is in better shape than it's ever been. To say we are going backwards is just stoopid. But I suspect some posters don't really care about this club and just like flexing their pathetic egos.

I agree the club is in great shape. I mean we were 20 points off going through the season undefeated this year. We have a strong back of house and a strong on field group with 1 focus and 1 goal.

I don't personally think that the sky is caving in because a calculated gamble has blown up in our face.

However I think there is also a tendancy for St Kilda supporters to fear the worst, but 1 flag to show for 140 years of effort will do that to you..

Rod and Grant are gone. To compare squads is a farce. Best you compare the admins of both eras. No arguing. A 1st class footy department and ditto the fitness team. Would never have happened under the other 2. Although Rod did move in the right direction once Pinochet was deposed.

People talk about our rise under Grant as some sort of miracle. Wake up and smell the coffee. It would have happened anyway given the low draft picks. Then some of you have the audacity to compare us with Richmond.

that's even more stoopid because Wallace did not have a support team of Burke, Harvey, Frankie, Sammy, Max and Sammy to help him. No comparison. Try again. Grant saved a a team from the despair that he and Rod put there with the Blight fiasco.

You say that first class football department and fitness team would never have happened under the old regime. Well obviously the football dept was not going to grow under GT hence his unceremonial removal from his position.

But the lack of a first rate fitness department was not through lack of trying. They were told the turf at Moorabbin was causing soft tissue injuries the returfed the ground, they weren't happy with the fitness of the group they went out at got the man viewed at the time as the best available (Craig Starcevich) who pulled stumps quickly and went home for family reasons.

I think history will be kinder to Thomas and Butters than we are at the minute, true in hindsight they weren't the men to take us to the holy grail but I think they put in some platforms that are being built upon now.

I think the club has moved onwards and upwards from where we were in 2006 and a premiership or (fingers crossed) 2 could have our club on our way to becoming a genuine powerhouse in the competition.

They are going to make mistakes, but I think if we stick fat behind the direction we are heading we are going to get the rewards we have all be dreaming of.

Well that's my rant anyway. I think the club is in a great spot and I don't think the Lovett recruiting fiasco (as it now appears to have become) is a symptom of some greater ill. It's easy for us to make fantastic recruiting decisions from the safety of a forum and even easier in hindsight.

Recruiting people get them wrong from time to time, obvioulsy a lot of people here don't, which might explain their lack of understanding of our clubs inability to get it right 100% of the time.

[rodgerfox]

And funnily enough, what I said at the time turned to be exactly, precisely correct.

You wrote that because we sacked Thomas, we would not be a realistic premiership chance until after 2011!

WRONG!

I was wrong.

What I wrote, was that our list good enough to be a finals team for the next few years, but with list turnover and a change of game plan, we wouldn't be a genuine contender until 2010.

Worth noting, that I also said we would have had a similar lull under Thomas anyway, due to the unbalancing of the list over time in terms of the age breakdown.

What I didn't expect, was to get a complete injury free season!! Dare I say it, the way we were playing when we had injuries, suggests I would have been spot on had we not fluked a year like we did!!

[markp]

And funnily enough, what I said at the time turned to be exactly, precisely correct.

You wrote that because we sacked Thomas, we would not be a realistic premiership chance until after 2011!

WRONG!

I was wrong.

What I wrote, was that our list good enough to be a finals team for the next few years, but with list turnover and a change of game plan, we wouldn't be a genuine contender until 2010.

Worth noting, that I also said we would have had a similar lull under Thomas anyway, due to the unbalancing of the list over time in terms of the age breakdown.

What I didn't expect, was to get a complete injury free season!! Dare I say it, the way we were playing when we had injuries, suggests I would have been spot on had we not fluked a year like we did!!

Did we have a 'complete injury free season'?

When was that?

[barks4eva]

And funnily enough, what I said at the time turned to be exactly, precisely correct.

You wrote that because we sacked Thomas, we would not be a realistic premiership chance until after 2011!

WRONG!

I was wrong.

What I wrote, was that our list good enough to be a finals team for the next few years, but with list turnover and a change of game plan, we wouldn't be a genuine contender until 2010.

WRONG, you wrote after 2011!

You also said all the basic fundamentals were the same under Lyon as what they were with Thomas, cabbage!

Lyon inherited an unfit and slow list, no ruckmen and quickly went about improving the fitness levels required to perform at an elite AFL level.

The players all made comment about how they'd never trained so hard, hardest pre season they'd ever done etc...etc...

Lyon and a new professional football department headed by Matthew Drain who Thomas refused to accept when Butterss tried to acquire him years earlier, have turned this club around, with astute recruiting and we should be grateful that we finally have someone with real football smarts coaching us.

Th club was headed south after the draft bonanza years had started to decline due to poor recruiting, development, fitness and conditioning, etc...etc...


In recruiting Lovett, Lyon obviously was continuing to address one of the achilles heels he inherited from the buffoon who left the place in a fricken mess, worth a gamble IMHO>

Our rucks are now quality, thanks to Lyon, but we still need a bit more pace.

I perfectly understand why we would take the risk in drafting Lovett.

Hopefully the matter is a huge beat up and Lovett gets to show his true worth on the field.