saintsRrising wrote:rodgerfox wrote:
But you add both Clarkes, Max and Goose back in, and suddenly the horrible list that Lyon inherited doesn't that look that much different to what's on the park now.
.
Rodger...can you find ONE post by me where I stated that Lyon inherited a horrible list?
No...but that does stop you actively pretending that I have.
Keep it real sRr. You are splitting hairs and your argument is at risk of becoming as specious as rf's.
You might never have used the word "horrible", but you have prattled on and on about GT "ruining our list" for the best part of 2 years. You might fool some people on here, but I for one was paying attention to what you said.
I'm sick to death of this "you're lying, I never said black was white, I simply said that both of them were extreme ends of the spectrum of grey" type of stuff that passes for reasoned debate on SS these days.
FWIW, I have always considered that the list that RL inherited from GT was a mixed blessing. It had a fantastic core of stars - Gehrig, Hamill, Riewoldt, Kosi, Lenny, Milne, Dal, Ball, BJ, X, Joey, etc. - and some newer up and coming guys such as Sam Fisher, Gilbert, Gram, Raph and, to some extent, Mini and Gwilt.
But certain problems had emerged in the last 2 seasons of GT's regime. Penny and Jones had retired prematurely and it was clear that Peckett, Powell, Thommo and Harves were heading for retirement as well. Hamill and Watts had already experienced what turned out to be career-ending injuries and Kosi, Lenny and Goose had also been seriously injured. Raph was beginning to display the back problems and what seemed to be a bad attitude (but was in fact an undiagnosed illness). Gehrig's body was starting to show signs of the wear and tear that finally did his career in. Ball was already severely hampered by his OP. And X was already a week to week proposition (as has been Max for much of the time, for that matter).
These were major problems that Lyon and the coaching staff and the players affected have had to work hard to overcome (as well as new problems such as BJ's and Baker's injuries in 2007). The extent to which they can be blamed on GT is a moot point.
Did GT drive Jones and Penny away? Maybe, but I've never heard it suggested.
Did Harvey, Thommo, Powell or Peckett retire prematurely? I doubt it.
Were Goose's, Lenny's, Hamill's, Gehrig's or Kosi's (or, for that matter, BJ's and Baker's) serious injuries the result of poor conditioning or preparation? I doubt it.
Perhaps Ball's and X's and Raph's chronic problems might have been better managed by the current staff than they were by the well-credentialled Larcom and Starcevich (although X and Raph still seem to be struggling to get fit: maybe some responsibility for this might need to be sheeted home to their own training efforts, or even to their genetic makeup).
Anyway, the really interesting point to note now is how many of the key players who have struggled with injuries and/or other problems are now back and firing. BJ, Kosi, Ball, Baker and Lenny seem to be largely over their injury problems. Raph performed well in the second half of last season and we can hope to see him back soon, along with X. Even Goose looks to be a chance to get back into it.
Kosi in particular is a key player for our team. I still reckon we would have gotten past the Swans if he had been fit for the 2005 PF (and Sam Fisher would have been an added bonus). Most posters on here seem to have totally forgotten how good he once was, or else can only think back to the golden patch in 2005 and see it as some sort of an aberration.
Nick Riewoldt has always used the same word to describe Kosi: a "gun". I believe that he, more than anything else, is the X factor in our mix that has made us look so much more dangerous so far in 2009.
It certainly isn't largely down to the impact that Schneider, Ray, CJ and Geary have had on the team: which is where all this "Lyon has turned over the list" nonsense comes totally off the rails.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
)
).
...............
