Ross Lyon after today

[st.byron]

Only once, in one very short era has scores of >70 ever been good enough to win flags.

His philosophy is flawed.

He's had 5 years to change it, and he hasn't. He's even acknowledged the flaw - but hasn't proven capable of changing it.


He's no genius. He's brilliant at getting players to 'buy in'. But what he has them buying into is a lemon.

Toe pokes, bad bounces, benching gun players, poor tactical game day coaching, etc. etc. is not why we lost 2 winnable flags. It's cause we couldn't kick a big enough score. Full stop.

Same reason why Freo haven't and almost certainly won't win a flag.


And that is purely the work of Ross Lyon. And if its not, and the players at two clubs over 6 years aren't listening to him - then clearly he isn't a good coach at all.

I basically agree with Johnny about this. Lyon may be good at getting a team all on the same page, but you rarely win the big ones with scores of 60 odd points. I watched both games yesterday. North vs the Injectors was good to watch. Good result too seeing the drug cheats beaten.
Sydney vs Freo was awful to watch. A rolling contested maul. Lyon's defensive gameplan is a bit one dimensional. If teams get drawn into the defensive dogfight then Freo are in business. If they find ways to open it up and break the shackles, Lyon' s finals teams seem unable to switch gears and respond in kind.
Personally I can't stand Lyon. Primarily for the way he left the Saints. I hope he doesn't win one.

[Con Gorozidis]

For all the hindsight heroes who were calling for Dawson, McQualter and Eddy to be replaced by Maguire, Hudghton, Geary, Steven or Armo: why were you all silent in the discussion of the team?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65506

I honestly think you are missing the point.
No hindsight heroes are complaining about the side - but many are complaining about the state of the squad.

And I ask again - whats your opinion on the thread topic?

[Johnny Member]

Lyon preparation is excellent.

His 'player buy in' is elite.


But I reckon that's where it stops. I've never seen any magic on game day. Never seen an out of the box move that's turned a game.

The only time I've seen it....7 days later he reverted back to failed plan and we got pumped.

Inflexible.


He's a good coach. He has some incredibly good strengths - but some chronic flaws. Great coaches don't have those glaring flaws.

[Johnny Member]

To use a tennis analogy...

Guys who work hard and just keep getting ball back, will be successful tennis players.

But, history says they'll only ever win Grand Slams by default. To win Grand Slams, you need to be able to hit winners. You need to also get a shitload of balls back - but you need to 'win' the match.

Ross Lyon teams, don't seem to be able to hit winners when it's required.

They'll be successful, but they won't win Grand Slams.

[kosifantutti]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

Well I cant account for your memory but im 100% certain people were vocal about McG and Eddy in 09-10.
It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.

And what is interesting about the pies having a more solid squad drawing with a side with a side with better a top 10 and a worse bottom 6? How is that interesting? Surely you can follow that concept?

Did you go to the drawn game? We got back to drawing that game on the back of absolutely heroic performances from our top 6 players. But their lower players (McCaffer, Toovey, Didak etc) all made contributions when it counted. Our lower players didnt.

But hey - you seem to be on a mission to argue with every post I put up this week - so carry on.

This a thread about Ross Lyon - but you haven't made one single comment on the actual thread topic. Are you defending Ross or just trying to argue with me?

Can you caution yourself for being off topic or baiting?

I don't think I've been particularly harsh on you Con, but if people say things I don't agree with or are totally illogical, I'll make a comment.

You say Premiership teams don't have weak links but we had apparently six weak links and came within one dodgy bounce of winning the flag. I reckon your theory is a little flimsy.

You want my opinion on Lyon, I think he was and is a very good coach.

[Con Gorozidis]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

Well I cant account for your memory but im 100% certain people were vocal about McG and Eddy in 09-10.
It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.

And what is interesting about the pies having a more solid squad drawing with a side with a side with better a top 10 and a worse bottom 6? How is that interesting? Surely you can follow that concept?

Did you go to the drawn game? We got back to drawing that game on the back of absolutely heroic performances from our top 6 players. But their lower players (McCaffer, Toovey, Didak etc) all made contributions when it counted. Our lower players didnt.

But hey - you seem to be on a mission to argue with every post I put up this week - so carry on.

This a thread about Ross Lyon - but you haven't made one single comment on the actual thread topic. Are you defending Ross or just trying to argue with me?

Can you caution yourself for being off topic or baiting?

I don't think I've been particularly harsh on you Con, but if people say things I don't agree with or are totally illogical, I'll make a comment.

You say Premiership teams don't have weak links but we had apparently six weak links and came within one dodgy bounce of winning the flag. I reckon your theory is a little flimsy.

You want my opinion on Lyon, I think he was and is a very good coach.

Its not illogical - surely you can follow the logic that an awesome top 6 and a crap bottom 6 might be = to a good 12?

For instance 8+3 = 11 and 6+6 = 12

12 is > 11

Its quite logical.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Armo and Hudghton couldn't run out games, says someone?

What about Rd 19 v Hawthorn 2009, when he and Ball were best afield?

Armo had over twice the possessions of Eddy and McQualter and just as many tackles.

Hudghton's stats were almost identical to Raph's, better than Dawson's, and he had 100% game time.

Geary also had a good day -- much better than Eddy.

Not hindsight at all. Most of us knew it at the time. If we didn't make waves in the lead-up to the GF it's because we didn't want to rock the boat.

[Johnny Member]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

Well I cant account for your memory but im 100% certain people were vocal about McG and Eddy in 09-10.
It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.

And what is interesting about the pies having a more solid squad drawing with a side with a side with better a top 10 and a worse bottom 6? How is that interesting? Surely you can follow that concept?

Did you go to the drawn game? We got back to drawing that game on the back of absolutely heroic performances from our top 6 players. But their lower players (McCaffer, Toovey, Didak etc) all made contributions when it counted. Our lower players didnt.

But hey - you seem to be on a mission to argue with every post I put up this week - so carry on.

This a thread about Ross Lyon - but you haven't made one single comment on the actual thread topic. Are you defending Ross or just trying to argue with me?

Can you caution yourself for being off topic or baiting?

The thing was, that in GF1 we actually tried to win it after half time by swinging some changes and taking risks.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that it was a case of the assistants jumping him and gagging and hog tying him whilst they took over at half time!

However, true to form - the next week he reverts back to girmka which didn't work!

Staggering really.

[dragit]

It's not that easy to click your fingers and bring in 6 decent players to replace your bottom 6...

I think we tried to manufacture those last few cogs, but ultimately didn't get them right... King, Gardiner, Smith, Peake, Ray, Polo, Gamble, Lovett etc... It's not like we didn't try to find those extra players, you have to remember how tight our cap was through these years too. Adding a Jolly & Ball of our own would have been wonderful.

[kosifantutti]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

Well I cant account for your memory but im 100% certain people were vocal about McG and Eddy in 09-10.
It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.

And what is interesting about the pies having a more solid squad drawing with a side with a side with better a top 10 and a worse bottom 6? How is that interesting? Surely you can follow that concept?

Did you go to the drawn game? We got back to drawing that game on the back of absolutely heroic performances from our top 6 players. But their lower players (McCaffer, Toovey, Didak etc) all made contributions when it counted. Our lower players didnt.

But hey - you seem to be on a mission to argue with every post I put up this week - so carry on.

This a thread about Ross Lyon - but you haven't made one single comment on the actual thread topic. Are you defending Ross or just trying to argue with me?

Can you caution yourself for being off topic or baiting?

I don't think I've been particularly harsh on you Con, but if people say things I don't agree with or are totally illogical, I'll make a comment.

You say Premiership teams don't have weak links but we had apparently six weak links and came within one dodgy bounce of winning the flag. I reckon your theory is a little flimsy.

You want my opinion on Lyon, I think he was and is a very good coach.

Its not illogical - surely you can follow the logic that an awesome top 6 and a crap bottom 6 might be = to a good 12?

For instance 8+3 = 11 and 6+6 = 12

12 is > 11

Its quite logical.

Did you say "premiership teams have no weak links"?
Did you say we had a number of weak links?
Were we one dodgy bounce from winning a flag?

Your theory is flimsy at best.

[Johnny Member]

The biggest issue wasn't the bottom 6 in my opinion.

Goddard is winning B&Fs still, Dal is starring finals wins, Roo is still AA, Lenny is a freak etc. etc.


It just can't be underestimated how good our list was.

Even Luke Ball played a significant role in a premiership team.


I could go on.

It just cannot be understated how good our list was. We had some absolute superstars at the peak of their powers.



What Lyon did, in order to improve the defensive aspect of the team - was to reduce the offensive impact of these guys.

Contrary to popular belief, flag teams over the years have been littered with average players. What all flag teams have gas though, without exception - is superstars. We had that in spades, but I believe that in Lyon's flawed philosophy he believed that keeping the opposition's score low was worth sacrificing our ability to be offensive.

I don't think that has changed.

[Spinner]

Bobby Rose coached without GF success.

Bobby was a thoroughly decent bloke.
Wouldn't call him a liar.

Would still love to see Freo win through to a GF just to Ross could lose another one

Personally I think he has blown his chance.
They have recruited no one - does that sound familiar?
When Pavlova retires their chance will be gone with no-one coming through.

Good Riddance Ross !

See that's the thing, we have this hate for a 'liar' that left a contract because stkilda wrote a clause in it to suit them.

And we would rather Geelong, a team that stopped us from grand final glory, Sydney, a team full of stars with a COLA cap and the Hawks a team that has had success for so long.

And not a first timer - because their coach left our team.


If he isn't any good, why do we hate him? Why do we hate Fremantle? The ones that hate them/him only do because of Lyon - but also proclaim he isn't any good.


Someone that can solve this question will ultimately end the thread. He isn't any good but we hate him anyway for leaving. My money on solving this is yourself or anyone else that changes players names and teams into a humorous play on words. Examples include weagles and bumbers and the one above, pavlova.

[Con Gorozidis]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

Well I cant account for your memory but im 100% certain people were vocal about McG and Eddy in 09-10.
It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.

And what is interesting about the pies having a more solid squad drawing with a side with a side with better a top 10 and a worse bottom 6? How is that interesting? Surely you can follow that concept?

Did you go to the drawn game? We got back to drawing that game on the back of absolutely heroic performances from our top 6 players. But their lower players (McCaffer, Toovey, Didak etc) all made contributions when it counted. Our lower players didnt.

But hey - you seem to be on a mission to argue with every post I put up this week - so carry on.

This a thread about Ross Lyon - but you haven't made one single comment on the actual thread topic. Are you defending Ross or just trying to argue with me?

Can you caution yourself for being off topic or baiting?

I don't think I've been particularly harsh on you Con, but if people say things I don't agree with or are totally illogical, I'll make a comment.

You say Premiership teams don't have weak links but we had apparently six weak links and came within one dodgy bounce of winning the flag. I reckon your theory is a little flimsy.

You want my opinion on Lyon, I think he was and is a very good coach.

Its not illogical - surely you can follow the logic that an awesome top 6 and a crap bottom 6 might be = to a good 12?

For instance 8+3 = 11 and 6+6 = 12

12 is > 11

Its quite logical.

Did you say "premiership teams have no weak links"?
Did you say we had a number of weak links?
Were we one dodgy bounce from winning a flag?

Your theory is flimsy at best.

So is your thesis that RL is a genius and was only denied a flag by the bounce of a ball?
If so come out and say it. But Ill remind you he currently sits on zero flags. Nil. 0.

And again I remind you that this thread is on Ross Lyons future. FUTURE.
I ask again - do you have a view on this subject at all or are you just posting to trying to score nitpicking points from me and crap on about 2009???
Not very modlike behaviour. Clearly off topic ad hominem and baiting.

[gringo]

In a very basic sense, he robs Peter to pay Paul.

The problem is he, unlike the premiership coaches, hasn't been able to find the required balance.

You just can't argue with the facts.


What will be fascinating, is what the Lyon legacy looks like when Pavlich, Sandilands, McPharlin etc. retire and or slow down considerably.

One Rising Star nom in 7 years is staggering really.

Unfortunately the fact is if Milney kicked straight, if hawkins goal had been called a point, scarlet's toe poke skewed off the boot, if Schnides and Mini had not missed goals he would be the greatest St Kilda coach ever and we would be drinking beers in his legendary name. As it happens he's a dog &^%$ with no redeeming qualities. North can't find the right balance to get to a GF yet the coaches brother has a list that seems to defy gravity and has enormous self belief. Teams that win one find it easier to win another. Maybe if Ross wins one the belief of his players rises too.

[kosifantutti]

So is your thesis that RL is a genius and was only denied a flag by the bounce of a ball?
If so come out and say it. But Ill remind you he currently sits on zero flags. Nil. 0.

And again I remind you that this thread is on Ross Lyons future. FUTURE.
I ask again - do you have a view on this subject at all or are you just posting to trying to score nitpicking points from me and crap on about 2009???
Not very modlike behaviour. Clearly off topic ad hominem and baiting.

I think I said Ross Lyon is and was a very good coach. Did you not bother to read that?

I wasn't the one to bring up 2009 or 2010.

Should the mods feel free to issue a warning every time you go off topic? I don't think you would last a night. My first response to you was when you were talking about Ross Lyon in 2007-2010, but somehow I'm the one taking the thread off topic and should be reported.

And please Con, no Latin, most of us are simple folk here. Anything beyond Fortius Quo Fidelius is too complex for me.

[kosifantutti]

One Rising Star nom in 7 years is staggering really.

It would be even more staggering if true.
But never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[SainterK]

Bobby Rose coached without GF success.

Bobby was a thoroughly decent bloke.
Wouldn't call him a liar.

Would still love to see Freo win through to a GF just to Ross could lose another one

Personally I think he has blown his chance.
They have recruited no one - does that sound familiar?
When Pavlova retires their chance will be gone with no-one coming through.

Good Riddance Ross !

See that's the thing, we have this hate for a 'liar' that left a contract because stkilda wrote a clause in it to suit them.

And we would rather Geelong, a team that stopped us from grand final glory, Sydney, a team full of stars with a COLA cap and the Hawks a team that has had success for so long.

And not a first timer - because their coach left our team.


If he isn't any good, why do we hate him? Why do we hate Fremantle? The ones that hate them/him only do because of Lyon - but also proclaim he isn't any good.


Someone that can solve this question will ultimately end the thread. He isn't any good but we hate him anyway for leaving. My money on solving this is yourself or anyone else that changes players names and teams into a humorous play on words. Examples include weagles and bumbers and the one above, pavlova.

Cause he gave opportunity for someone like hutchy to get the maracas and dance at our clubs humiliation.

End thread.

[gringo]

Bobby Rose coached without GF success.

Bobby was a thoroughly decent bloke.
Wouldn't call him a liar.

Would still love to see Freo win through to a GF just to Ross could lose another one

Personally I think he has blown his chance.
They have recruited no one - does that sound familiar?
When Pavlova retires their chance will be gone with no-one coming through.

Good Riddance Ross !

See that's the thing, we have this hate for a 'liar' that left a contract because stkilda wrote a clause in it to suit them.

And we would rather Geelong, a team that stopped us from grand final glory, Sydney, a team full of stars with a COLA cap and the Hawks a team that has had success for so long.

And not a first timer - because their coach left our team.


If he isn't any good, why do we hate him? Why do we hate Fremantle? The ones that hate them/him only do because of Lyon - but also proclaim he isn't any good.


Someone that can solve this question will ultimately end the thread. He isn't any good but we hate him anyway for leaving. My money on solving this is yourself or anyone else that changes players names and teams into a humorous play on words. Examples include weagles and bumbers and the one above, pavlova.

Cause he gave opportunity for someone like hutchy to get the maracas and dance at our clubs humiliation.

End thread.

Yeah for me that's the only gripe. It's like seeing your ex with her new millionaire boyfriend when your out a dinner. The moment you start to get sentimental about the old days that smug face smirks back at you and you hope a chandelier falls on him. He's a good coach but a s%$# bloke. That said it's been long enough for me to forgive and forget. I hate Sydney and Geelong more for some reason.

[Scumbag Ross]

Lyon's probably the best home & away coach in the league because it's almost always finals pressure each week from his sides.

I'd stick my neck out and say if he coached us in 2014 we would be higher up the ladder.

But where's that thing that gives you the edge in the finals? It's always that same old arms length control that never results in enough scoring pressure and the opposition only needs to break through in a 5 minute patch to torch all your effort. It's a great game style when you're playing the scrubbers and good teams who haven't turned up, but in finals most teams (Richmond excluded) are at your intensity level.

It's why you keep hearing about if only balls had bounced the right way. That's the problem, Lyon will always get you close but he's got little left to make sure you actually win it. You're always going to be relying on luck because even when you're in control there's never enough space between you an the opposition to make it a sure thing.

[gringo]

Lyon's probably the best home & away coach in the league because it's almost always finals pressure each week from his sides.

I'd stick my neck out and say if he coached us in 2014 we would be higher up the ladder.

But where's that thing that gives you the edge in the finals? It's always that same old arms length control that never results in enough scoring pressure and the opposition only needs to break through in a 5 minute patch to torch all your effort. It's a great game style when you're playing the scrubbers and good teams who haven't turned up, but in finals most teams (Richmond excluded) are at your intensity level.

It's why you keep hearing about if only balls had bounced the right way. That's the problem, Lyon will always get you close but he's got little left to make sure you actually win it. You're always going to be relying on luck because even when you're in control there's never enough space between you an the opposition to make it a sure thing.

The Hawks knocked off Geelong in a GF because they couldn't kick straight. I'm not sure it's that simple. Last night Essendon were in front the whole time and got rolled. So much has to go right in finals. This week end apart from the Richmond Port game all games were anyones with in the last quarter. I think Ross coaches most games in a finals like manner so probably more ready for the pressure and intensity.

Any way welcome aboard good to see some new posters, I love the nickname.

[skeptic]

Unfortunately the fact is if Milney kicked straight, if hawkins goal had been called a point, scarlet's toe poke skewed off the boot, if Schnides and Mini had not missed goals he would be the greatest St Kilda coach ever and we would be drinking beers in his legendary name. As it happens he's a dog &^%$ with no redeeming qualities. North can't find the right balance to get to a GF yet the coaches brother has a list that seems to defy gravity and has enormous self belief. Teams that win one find it easier to win another. Maybe if Ross wins one the belief of his players rises too.

See unfortunately these aren't facts

if Milne kicks straight the whole game changes and we don't know the outcome... potentially at the next center clearance Hayes does a hammy

The facts are that we dominated for about a 1/4 and half in 09, Geelong reacted, made changes and we had no answers, and made mistakes as they ran over the top of us

According to many on here, because the players dominated for a 1/4 and a half, RL is a master coach, it proves he was and the loss is squarely put on the players

The fact that they selected had a side that had more run, was generally stronger finishing than us, moved Bartel to Hayes and shut him out after a good 1st 1/4, managed to get Chapman a player that cut us up earlier in the season go around and get unchecked, whilst we took one of our better mids on the day in Ball off for the majority of the 2nd half... these things don't factor.

Personally I think RL coached much better in the drawn GF then he did in 09

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Unfortunately the fact is if Milney kicked straight, if hawkins goal had been called a point, scarlet's toe poke skewed off the boot, if Schnides and Mini had not missed goals he would be the greatest St Kilda coach ever and we would be drinking beers in his legendary name. As it happens he's a dog &^%$ with no redeeming qualities. North can't find the right balance to get to a GF yet the coaches brother has a list that seems to defy gravity and has enormous self belief. Teams that win one find it easier to win another. Maybe if Ross wins one the belief of his players rises too.

See unfortunately these aren't facts

if Milne kicks straight the whole game changes and we don't know the outcome... potentially at the next center clearance Hayes does a hammy

The facts are that we dominated for about a 1/4 and half in 09, Geelong reacted, made changes and we had no answers, and made mistakes as they ran over the top of us

According to many on here, because the players dominated for a 1/4 and a half, RL is a master coach, it proves he was and the loss is squarely put on the players

The fact that they selected had a side that had more run, was generally stronger finishing than us, moved Bartel to Hayes and shut him out after a good 1st 1/4, managed to get Chapman a player that cut us up earlier in the season go around and get unchecked, whilst we took one of our better mids on the day in Ball off for the majority of the 2nd half... these things don't factor.

Personally I think RL coached much better in the drawn GF then he did in 09

And Raph got taken to the cleaners by Shannon Byrnes in the last quarter ... it was significant, the commentators noticed, and it cost us.

[saintspremiers]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

Well I cant account for your memory but im 100% certain people were vocal about McG and Eddy in 09-10.
It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.

And what is interesting about the pies having a more solid squad drawing with a side with a side with better a top 10 and a worse bottom 6? How is that interesting? Surely you can follow that concept?

Did you go to the drawn game? We got back to drawing that game on the back of absolutely heroic performances from our top 6 players. But their lower players (McCaffer, Toovey, Didak etc) all made contributions when it counted. Our lower players didnt.

But hey - you seem to be on a mission to argue with every post I put up this week - so carry on.

This a thread about Ross Lyon - but you haven't made one single comment on the actual thread topic. Are you defending Ross or just trying to argue with me?

Can you caution yourself for being off topic or baiting?

I don't think I've been particularly harsh on you Con, but if people say things I don't agree with or are totally illogical, I'll make a comment.

You say Premiership teams don't have weak links but we had apparently six weak links and came within one dodgy bounce of winning the flag. I reckon your theory is a little flimsy.

You want my opinion on Lyon, I think he was and is a very good coach.

Its not illogical - surely you can follow the logic that an awesome top 6 and a crap bottom 6 might be = to a good 12?

For instance 8+3 = 11 and 6+6 = 12

12 is > 11

Its quite logical.

Did you say "premiership teams have no weak links"?
Did you say we had a number of weak links?
Were we one dodgy bounce from winning a flag?

Your theory is flimsy at best.

We wouldn't have had the flag in the bag without the dodgy bounce. There was over a minute left. Plenty of time for another Pie's goal.

Anyway, I'm hoping we see a Swines Hawks granny with the Hawks winning.

It would be awful for the comp and integrity for COLA to win out again.

[plugger66]

Definitely not hindsight.
Many on here were very vocal throughout 09 and 10 that we couldn't win a flag with those two.
They were right. RL should have made more effort to bolster our squad in 07-10.

if u look at the premiership sides they have no weak links.

I reckon people were vocal in 2011 - 2014. I can't remember any in 09/10.

Interesting that Collingwood with no weak links, drew with a team that had six weak links. That's probably the reason the ball wouldn't bounce for Milne.

Well I cant account for your memory but im 100% certain people were vocal about McG and Eddy in 09-10.
It was a well discussed on here and in the general footy world that our bottom 6 were a poor bottom 6.
This was commonly held and commonly discussed at the time - it was not a hindsight issue.

And what is interesting about the pies having a more solid squad drawing with a side with a side with better a top 10 and a worse bottom 6? How is that interesting? Surely you can follow that concept?

Did you go to the drawn game? We got back to drawing that game on the back of absolutely heroic performances from our top 6 players. But their lower players (McCaffer, Toovey, Didak etc) all made contributions when it counted. Our lower players didnt.

But hey - you seem to be on a mission to argue with every post I put up this week - so carry on.

This a thread about Ross Lyon - but you haven't made one single comment on the actual thread topic. Are you defending Ross or just trying to argue with me?

Can you caution yourself for being off topic or baiting?

I don't think I've been particularly harsh on you Con, but if people say things I don't agree with or are totally illogical, I'll make a comment.

You say Premiership teams don't have weak links but we had apparently six weak links and came within one dodgy bounce of winning the flag. I reckon your theory is a little flimsy.

You want my opinion on Lyon, I think he was and is a very good coach.

Its not illogical - surely you can follow the logic that an awesome top 6 and a crap bottom 6 might be = to a good 12?

For instance 8+3 = 11 and 6+6 = 12

12 is > 11

Its quite logical.

The problem with that logic Con is both sides we played in the GF had more AA that year than us. That suggests their top 6 was pretty good and looking through the list their middle 6 was also pretty good. As i pointed out when you said RL should have tried to improve the list well he got 5 players from other sides in the side. Not sure he could do much more than that especially as he was hampered by a full SC which isnt part of his role. RL coached our side the way he thought the list he had at his disposal could play. We were unlucky not to win one. Because we didnt the RL haters can probably say what they like even if its sometimes illogical.

[saintly]

how many 1st year players debuted at freo this year?
how many players used this year at freo?
and my last question what are their ages who played this week game?

from there we will know how similar Lyin this years strategy to 4 years ago at the saints.