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Its just that you think losing a player who has finished in the top 5 in the B&F 3 times and a nearly Norm Smith medalist wont be a loss as the season goes on so it would seem strange that a no gamer and a 12 gamer would be a gain at any stage this season.
I think my point is losing BJ and Grammy are definite disadvantages this season and a very big one at that.
but I've seen gram play - no loss. I don't rate him as I thought him a bad influence on the field (and now it seems possibly off it as well). I'm talking 2013 here - i believe gram would not be a regular by the business end of the year. And bj - well lets just say he hasn't been at his best since he took that screamer.
But I'll concede he'll be hard to replace as an individual player, still avery, very good player - it's more a belief (hope) that the team could fit better as a unit, and it's an opportunity for someone to stand up.
If Gram is no loss why would the coach play him every week ahead of a young kid. My guess is he is better than the young kid. And I never saw any bad influence on the ground. And BJ has been no where near his best for 2 years. Still better than any replacement this year.
millarsaint wrote:without judas means Dal is the obvious tag, and likely see him play forward pocket occasionally. you could say he was the obvious tag anyway. not only did we get two or three good prospects for judas but certainly opens it up for Siposs, Gears, Dempster to create more from the back. we will miss him a little in the centre and not really going forward. Gram and Cripps were shoddy overhead which for me is a bugbear and based purely on this I personally won't miss them.
judas got a lot of possies but was on auto pilot I reckon. and with his pace dropping off, if he gets off to a bad start at essonscum, could really poo his pants over there. sounds like wishful thinking but could happen.
millarsaint wrote:without judas means Dal is the obvious tag, and likely see him play forward pocket occasionally. you could say he was the obvious tag anyway. not only did we get two or three good prospects for judas but certainly opens it up for Siposs, Gears, Dempster to create more from the back. we will miss him a little in the centre and not really going forward. Gram and Cripps were shoddy overhead which for me is a bugbear and based purely on this I personally won't miss them.
judas got a lot of possies but was on auto pilot I reckon. and with his pace dropping off, if he gets off to a bad start at essonscum, could really poo his pants over there. sounds like wishful thinking but could happen.
I thought Ball left 3 years ago...
He did and so did BJ. Who the hell is Judas though? Never heard of him.
plugger66 wrote:
Its just that you think losing a player who has finished in the top 5 in the B&F 3 times and a nearly Norm Smith medalist wont be a loss as the season goes on so it would seem strange that a no gamer and a 12 gamer would be a gain at any stage this season.
I think my point is losing BJ and Grammy are definite disadvantages this season and a very big one at that.
but I've seen gram play - no loss. I don't rate him as I thought him a bad influence on the field (and now it seems possibly off it as well). I'm talking 2013 here - i believe gram would not be a regular by the business end of the year. And bj - well lets just say he hasn't been at his best since he took that screamer.
But I'll concede he'll be hard to replace as an individual player, still avery, very good player - it's more a belief (hope) that the team could fit better as a unit, and it's an opportunity for someone to stand up.
If Gram is no loss why would the coach play him every week ahead of a young kid. My guess is he is better than the young kid. And I never saw any bad influence on the ground. And BJ has been no where near his best for 2 years. Still better than any replacement this year.
2013 - his time is up. i'm not saying his replacement will be better than him at his peak - but will be better than he would've been this year. no loss.
As for bad influence - he didn't put in near enough, often took the softer option - that's why Geary is in the leadership group and gram wouldn't have been.
we agree on BJ.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
but I've seen gram play - no loss. I don't rate him as I thought him a bad influence on the field (and now it seems possibly off it as well). I'm talking 2013 here - i believe gram would not be a regular by the business end of the year. And bj - well lets just say he hasn't been at his best since he took that screamer.
But I'll concede he'll be hard to replace as an individual player, still avery, very good player - it's more a belief (hope) that the team could fit better as a unit, and it's an opportunity for someone to stand up.
If Gram is no loss why would the coach play him every week ahead of a young kid. My guess is he is better than the young kid. And I never saw any bad influence on the ground. And BJ has been no where near his best for 2 years. Still better than any replacement this year.
very big one at that.
2013 - his time is up. i'm not saying his replacement will be better than him at his peak - but will be better than he would've been this year. no loss.
As for bad influence - he didn't put in near enough, often took the softer option - that's why Geary is in the leadership group and gram wouldn't have been.
we agree on BJ.[/quote]
And it looks like we disagree on Gram. I would think no one will find out how Gram would have gone in 2013 because he is gone. And I dont understand the leadership thing either. Does Steven take the soft option? I dont think so. He just isnt a leader and neither is Gram. Anyway it doesnt matter and I hope you are right and I am wrong otherwise it may be a tough year.
Gram and Goddard will be missed just as Zac Dawson was missed. Ideally we will cover them with Siposs and Newnes or similar and we will all be blown away by the swift development of them but it seriously tests our depth as well.
gringo wrote:Gram and Goddard will be missed just as Zac Dawson was missed. Ideally we will cover them with Siposs and Newnes or similar and we will all be blown away by the swift development of them but it seriously tests our depth as well.
And you actually bring up a good point. Even if Siposs and Newnes can replace both players which is highly unlikely wouldnt we better a better side if at least 3 if not 4 of them played. In other words BJ cant be replaced and Gram may not be replaced.
gringo wrote:Gram and Goddard will be missed just as Zac Dawson was missed. Ideally we will cover them with Siposs and Newnes or similar and we will all be blown away by the swift development of them but it seriously tests our depth as well.
And you actually bring up a good point. Even if Siposs and Newnes can replace both players which is highly unlikely wouldnt we better a better side if at least 3 if not 4 of them played. In other words BJ cant be replaced and Gram may not be replaced.
We would not necessarily be better off.
When Lenny went down with a knee, NDS had one of his best seasons.
Lenny returned this year and won our B&F and NDS did not have the same impact as the previous year
gringo wrote:Gram and Goddard will be missed just as Zac Dawson was missed. Ideally we will cover them with Siposs and Newnes or similar and we will all be blown away by the swift development of them but it seriously tests our depth as well.
And you actually bring up a good point. Even if Siposs and Newnes can replace both players which is highly unlikely wouldnt we better a better side if at least 3 if not 4 of them played. In other words BJ cant be replaced and Gram may not be replaced.
We would not necessarily be better off.
When Lenny went down with a knee, NDS had one of his best seasons.
Lenny returned this year and won our B&F and NDS did not have the same impact as the previous year
So we want Lenny to get injured again? That is a very simple way at looking at it. Of course we are better off with BJ and Siposs playing together.
plugger66 wrote:Gram and Goddard will be missed just as Zac Dawson was missed. Ideally we will cover them with Siposs and Newnes or similar and we will all be blown away by the swift development of them but it seriously tests our depth as well.
And you actually bring up a good point. Even if Siposs and Newnes can replace both players which is highly unlikely wouldnt we better a better side if at least 3 if not 4 of them played. In other words BJ cant be replaced and Gram may not be replaced.
We would not necessarily be better off.
When Lenny went down with a knee, NDS had one of his best seasons.
Lenny returned this year and won our B&F and NDS did not have the same impact as the previous year
So we want Lenny to get injured again? That is a very simple way at looking at it. Of course we are better off with BJ and Siposs playing together.[/quote]
Where did I say that I want Lenny injured again.????
I wrote it in a simple manner Plugger so even you can comprehend but clearly it was above your head still or you are just playing stupid which is more likely.
NDS should have continued to play better even when Lenny returned but the opportunity was not there.
Like wise with Sippos or others this year. Without Gram and BJ, other players will develop into those positions and have more of an impact due to not relying on BJ or Gram to do the work as they will have to do it. With Gram and BJ in the team, the exposure would not be there and the development will not be as great.
We probably would have not seen how good Simpkin was this year if we still had Dawson.
It's also a game of Kur-Plonk
If you take players from a side they have to be replaced by players. Then there are injuries to existing players and you are talking 3rd tier players having to come in.
Structures with experienced players guide and protect those around them.
It's a serious problem when they are gone .
We shall see.
Feel like we're a long way back and that we didn't recruit especially well.
I'm a big fan of Watters but reckon this year is going to be a slow burn. Not so much because we're going backwards but that others will go forward quicker.
Our youngsters need games and experience.
My read on our status-quo:
- Our defence has gone from water-tight to being very thin on quality and lacking proper tall options.
- The midfield has class but still lacks pace and probably genuine depth, too.
- The forward line leans too heavily on Milne and Riewoldt and is suspect against quick counter-attacks.
I see lots of opportunity for youngsters to develop, which is great, and for them to learn from elite cultural leaders, which I think is invaluable.
Riewoldt and Hayes are outstanding role models for our next generation. I think both should be employed with the club after they retire, too. They uphold premiership standards in culture and we've lacked that for a very long time.
And you actually bring up a good point. Even if Siposs and Newnes can replace both players which is highly unlikely wouldnt we better a better side if at least 3 if not 4 of them played. In other words BJ cant be replaced and Gram may not be replaced.
We would not necessarily be better off.
When Lenny went down with a knee, NDS had one of his best seasons.
Lenny returned this year and won our B&F and NDS did not have the same impact as the previous year
So we want Lenny to get injured again? That is a very simple way at looking at it. Of course we are better off with BJ and Siposs playing together.
Where did I say that I want Lenny injured again.????
I wrote it in a simple manner Plugger so even you can comprehend but clearly it was above your head still or you are just playing stupid which is more likely.
NDS should have continued to play better even when Lenny returned but the opportunity was not there.
Like wise with Sippos or others this year. Without Gram and BJ, other players will develop into those positions and have more of an impact due to not relying on BJ or Gram to do the work as they will have to do it. With Gram and BJ in the team, the exposure would not be there and the development will not be as great.
We probably would have not seen how good Simpkin was this year if we still had Dawson.[/quote]
And you say I struggle to understand. You are comparing a midfielder who has been in the system 10 years to key position FB and somehow trying to prove some point. Dal didnt struggle because Lenny came back. They have played very well together previously. There may have been other reasons but it wasnt due to Lenny being there and you need at least 10 mids anyway. Why did Steven and Armo go so well this year. Its an illogical argument. Then you somehow say Simpkin is simlar. Well you only have one FB for a start so maybe Dawson leaving did help Simpkin. As you can see I didnt mention him because it one postion.
Only a person who struggles to understand the game would suggest we wouldnt be better off with both BJ and Siposs.
I also see Farren Ray playing a lot more this year, his form in 2012 was very good, if he can do that again and improve on it I'll be happy. I thought he was gone after 2011, but his 2012 season was the best since his first year with us in 09'
Tbh, whilst Gram was skillful, those long bombs to nowhere really didn't do us any good, and "when" he played, he was good, otherwise he was just floating along most of the games.
BJ hasn't played decent since 10' to be honest. Hes gotten more angry and slower. Having said that he was always able to get that leap or "x-factor" when you needed it and his kicking was v.v.good. From memory he polled 3 Brownlow votes in '12 fyi.
In regards to relying too much on Roo and Milne, I thought one of the first things Watters did when he came to here is that he addressed it and wanted a better spread of goal kickers, which I thought he achieved. I hope that continues and improves.
